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Split Thread A second impeachment

dudalb said:
Bombshell: The Democratic Porsuectors (that is pretty much what they are) just introduced strong evidence that Trump knew about the Insurrection is advance.
I think this is making a criminal prosecution very likely regradless of the outcome of the impeachment trial.
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A catch 22 for the Trumptoads: if they vote to impeach, maybe the criminal complaint won't go forward. While if they don't maybe it will.

But if they vote to impeach, that might just be more evidence for the criminal charges.
 
Minoosh said:
Here's a fantasy: Sometime soon, enough Republican senators introduce a measure to end the proceedings, saying they've seen enough to convict, and they know from introductory remarks that Trump has no viable defense.
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The prosecution has steered away from the complicit Senators who were fine with overturning the free and fair election results. It's hard to watch this knowing they have no problem dismissing the charges against Master Trump.
 
Minoosh said:
Here's a fantasy: Sometime soon, enough Republican senators introduce a measure to end the proceedings, saying they've seen enough to convict, and they know from introductory remarks that Trump has no viable defense.
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I think they'll just say "this trial is unconstitutional, therefore I am going to vote to acquit". It solves them even having to address any arguments or evidence.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
I think they'll just say "this trial is unconstitutional, therefore I am going to vote to acquit". It solves them even having to address any arguments or evidence.
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Which is contrary to how the house voted right at the start of the proceedings. The trial IS constitutional. They cannot just hand-wave that away and declare it not so.

Their only public justification left to acquit is "I don't think Trump did enough wrong to convict". And that plank is getting more and more precarious the more evidence is produced by the impeachment managers.

What they loathe to say is that they are too goddam scared to get out from under Trump's thumb now.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
A catch 22 for the Trumptoads: if they vote to impeach, maybe the criminal complaint won't go forward. While if they don't maybe it will.

But if they vote to impeach, that might just be more evidence for the criminal charges.
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This is not a conflict at all. If they vote to impeach, they alienate the Trump base and blow their re-election chances.

If they acquit and the Biden DOJ prosecutes Trump, the Trump base won't blame Republican senators.

So they vote to acquit. No downside.
 
Norman Alexander said:
Which is contrary to how the house voted right at the start of the proceedings. The trial IS constitutional. They cannot just hand-wave that away and declare it not so.

Their only public justification left to acquit is "I don't think Trump did enough wrong to convict". And that plank is getting more and more precarious the more evidence is produced by the impeachment managers.

What they loathe to say is that they are too goddam scared to get out from under Trump's thumb now.
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Oh, I think they'll say that they're voting to acquit because the trial is unconstitutional. Yes, I know that it doesn't make any legal sense, but if they vote on the merits, they'll alienate either the Trump base or everyone else.
 
Latest tactic of the on line MAGARATS: Ridiculing the congressmen running in the new videos as cowards
and still pushing "This was mainly a peaceful protest storyline.
How long unti they begin the "Video was fakes" BS/
 
dasmiller said:
This is not a conflict at all. If they vote to impeach, they alienate the Trump base and blow their re-election chances.

If they acquit and the Biden DOJ prosecutes Trump, the Trump base won't blame Republican senators.

So they vote to acquit. No downside.
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You mean sacrifice or martyr their leader?

Those GOP Senators like Cruz and Hawley might believe they can take control of the Trump mob but that's another fantasy. They might even believe Trump-the-martyr makes them stronger. It's as ludicrous and Donnie Jr talking like a big man as long as he's in Daddy's shadow.

The other GOP Senators, OTOH, might be counting their odds the longer this goes on and maybe a few more will realize Trump's mob is not 74 million strong. 74 million might be the Republicans that were feeling OK with Trump but it doesn't mean they are like Gaetz et al. I don't believe the Trump base is as large as the GOP base.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
I think they'll just say "this trial is unconstitutional, therefore I am going to vote to acquit". It solves them even having to address any arguments or evidence.
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That is their easy excuse way out. I'm not sure this won't backfire on the whole GOP though, if they don't recognize Trump's leadership in the riot and vote to impeach him.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
You mean sacrifice or martyr their leader?

Those GOP Senators like Cruz and Hawley might believe they can take control of the Trump mob but that's another fantasy. They might even believe Trump-the-martyr makes them stronger. It's as ludicrous and Donnie Jr talking like a big man as long as he's in Daddy's shadow.

The other GOP Senators, OTOH, might be counting their odds the longer this goes on and maybe a few more will realize Trump's mob is not 74 million strong. 74 million might be the Republicans that were feeling OK with Trump but it doesn't mean they are like Gaetz et al. I don't believe the Trump base is as large as the GOP base.
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It's a difficult sum for them and one of their own making.
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
You mean sacrifice or martyr their leader?
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I think most of them would be happy to see Trump simply vanish, but they can't say that for fear of alienating his base.

Those GOP Senators like Cruz and Hawley might believe they can take control of the Trump mob but that's another fantasy. They might even believe Trump-the-martyr makes them stronger. It's as ludicrous and Donnie Jr talking like a big man as long as he's in Daddy's shadow.

The other GOP Senators, OTOH, might be counting their odds the longer this goes on and maybe a few more will realize Trump's mob is not 74 million strong. 74 million might be the Republicans that were feeling OK with Trump but it doesn't mean they are like Gaetz et al. I don't believe the Trump base is as large as the GOP base.
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Probably not, but very few Senate Republicans can win a general election if the Trump base stays home.
 
dasmiller said:
Oh, I think they'll say that they're voting to acquit because the trial is unconstitutional. Yes, I know that it doesn't make any legal sense, but if they vote on the merits, they'll alienate either the Trump base or everyone else.
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Except that taking the "Oh, it's unconstitutional!" BS escape hatch will also alienate everyone else. Is there anyone outside the Trump base, or those pandering to the Trump base, who buys this argument?

They're at a crossroads. They either double down on Trump, or throw him under the bus. And everyone, Trumper or not, needs to remember which they chose in 2022 and 2024, and vote accordingly.
 
Horatius said:
They either double down on Trump, or throw him under the bus.
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I think they've already chosen. McConnell is the lightning rod. He voted the trial was unconstitutional. If he knew he had the votes to convict, he would have voted it constitutional and voted to convict himself. That he's backing Trump means that the Republicans will back Trump, with one or two voting against.

It's also worth noting that they're unequivocally supporting the more obviously loony and alienating Marjorie Taylor Greene. They obviously think that the extreme base and gerrymandering and other voter suppression is their best chance for holding on to and/or regaining some power.
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
I think they've already chosen. McConnell is the lightning rod. He voted the trial was unconstitutional. If he knew he had the votes to convict, he would have voted it constitutional and voted to convict himself. That he's backing Trump means that the Republicans will back Trump, with one or two voting against.

It's also worth noting that they're unequivocally supporting the more obviously loony and alienating Marjorie Taylor Greene. They obviously think that the extreme base and gerrymandering and other voter suppression is their best chance for holding on to and/or regaining some power.
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And they are making a huge mistake.
 
dasmiller said:
Probably not, but very few Senate Republicans can win a general election if the Trump base stays home.
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they held the senate before trump and lost the senate directly due to him

i'm not sure why they continue to believe they need him
 
Squeegee Beckenheim said:
I think they've already chosen. McConnell is the lightning rod. He voted the trial was unconstitutional. If he knew he had the votes to convict, he would have voted it constitutional and voted to convict himself. That he's backing Trump means that the Republicans will back Trump, with one or two voting against.

It's also worth noting that they're unequivocally supporting the more obviously loony and alienating Marjorie Taylor Greene. They obviously think that the extreme base and gerrymandering and other voter suppression is their best chance for holding on to and/or regaining some power.
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i'm not so sure. mcconnell will read the tea leaves, i don't think he's committed to anything. if the wind shifts, so will he.

the house is a different beast though.
 
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