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A note on Evolution

Iacchus said:
Please refer to this link on the Sun in Heaven.

Oh, yeah, that helped me a lot Iacchus! (Not).

It was a poor analogy, plants can't worship the sun, they can't worship the soil, they can't worship the rain.

They lack the symbolic referents to even pretend to undertsand Swedenborg.
 
Dancing David said:

Oh, yeah, that helped me a lot Iacchus! (Not).

It was a poor analogy, plants can't worship the sun, they can't worship the soil, they can't worship the rain.

They lack the symbolic referents to even pretend to undertsand Swedenborg.
Ever look at Egyptian hieroglyphics? It's all about "correspondences." The same with any other form of religious symbolism.
 
Also, did you know that in this instance "grass" (according to Swedenborg) signifies the beginning of faith and, that by "any green thing," signifies faith in general?


1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.

2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.

3 And there came out of the smoke locusts upon the earth: and unto them was given power, as the scorpions of the earth have power.

4 And it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the seal of God in their foreheads.
~ Revelation 9:1-4
I also had something very unusual happen to me regarding the lawn I just planted and the Great Wake-Up Call on 9-11.
 
Iacchus said:
And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
What the heck is a "bottomless pit" anyway? If it is bottomless, then it is a hole. Presumably a hole that goes on forever. Pits have bottoms, or they wouldn't be pits. There are many examples of religious writings that are self-contradictory and logically impossible, but this one is the pits.;)
 
Tricky said:

What the heck is a "bottomless pit" anyway? If it is bottomless, then [is it] it is (not) a hole.[?] Presumably a hole that goes on forever. Pits have bottoms, or they wouldn't be pits. There are many examples of religious writings that are self-contradictory and logically impossible, but this one is the pits.;)

Not if it's a metaphor for a doorway...which in itself is a metaphor for...

..aw forget it.
 
Tricky said:

What the heck is a "bottomless pit" anyway? If it is bottomless, then it is a hole. Presumably a hole that goes on forever. Pits have bottoms, or they wouldn't be pits. There are many examples of religious writings that are self-contradictory and logically impossible, but this one is the pits.;)
At the very least you would have to assume that it's very deep. And, if you were to fall into one, you would still continue to feel the sensation of falling.
 
Oh bother, we've strayed from fact into fantasy again. I have no creator unless you want to say my parents created me. Even then I have no relationship with them.

There is no intelligent design and no creator. Nature is nature and life is life, and it is silly wasting energy on worshipping anything.

That said, now I sound like an extremist, but I'm just getting that part of the discussion over with...I hope.

Now, any questions on evolution? Keep in mind that evolution does not attempt to explain origins of life, it only explains the evolution of living things. Religion and evolution are completely different topics.

In fact, if there was an intelligent design, then evolution would be it. It allows life to remain on the planet no matter what the conditions are, as long as they aren't extreme like on venus. Evolution is amazing and fascinating in that respect. Understanding it requires time and energy, just as much time and energy people devote to devotion. It's funny what becomes a priority when learning things. To the religious they figure they need not learn and understand evolution in any great depth. This keeps up the endless cycle of ignorance and irrational fear that it threatens their chance to go to heaven.

When will they understand that evolution may just reaffirm their beliefs in a creator and intelligent design? Maybe their gods are banging their heads against some asteroid because this understanding of life and adaptation is so rejected by their sheep.

Maybe god wants to add another testament to the bible, and people aren't listening.
 
Now if there was a "atheists say the darndest things", wouldn't my post just fit in there neatly? I'm sure it would have fundies howling with laughter at MY ignorance :p :p

I think I have a point though.
 
More than the poster to whom you responded, certainly.

In absent of a point, posters can pretty much discuss what ever they want.

"Rusty, do you like Turkish prison films?"

--J. "Airplane!" D.
 
Eos of the Eons said:
Now, any questions on evolution? Keep in mind that evolution does not attempt to explain origins of life, it only explains the evolution of living things.

What is a good answer when someone questions how genetic material is added to a life form to create a more complex organism? I think it is obvious to all but those unwilling to face reality that natural selection exists; pesticides and antibiotics focus on life that replicates fast enough to see the effects of mutation. However, changing existing genes changes existing life forms, but does not create "new" life forms in terms of complexity. Mutations result in resistant bacteria, but how do you get from bacteria (or any primitive predecessor) to mammals? Are gaps in the archeological record and inference the only evidence?
 
"TalkOrigins" is a good site for simple to complicated explanation. I would try to give one, but methinks they have done it far better.

--J.D.
 
Very good argument. Thing is, what gaps are there? We have everything from single celled organisms through to fish, amphibians, reptiles, etc. We even have monotremes and marsupials that were around before placental mammals. So we don't have an example of every single organism that existed. We do have phylogeny that shows a clear route of evolution. We have found so many of the primate ancestors that we can trace a dead end that branches off of our own direct tree. Hominids that stopped evolving and just became extinct.

Answer me this. We can find old skeletons like Lucy that aren't exactly like us now, but we can't find a skeleton that old that matches ours now. That is a clear indication that we did not exist when Lucy did. Lucy came before us and evolution chose for enough different traits to come up with us much much later. Sure, monkeys exist now, but did chimps roam the planet when Lucy did? Chimps are not on our branch of the tree, so we did not directly evolve from them. We do share a common ancestor with them though. Why do creationuts think that every living creature had to evolve from each other? We didn't even evolve from our dead end hominids, but from the ones that managed to live on.

Enough minor changes in the organism's genetics will eventually change it to a different species. We aren't like Lucy anymore, and Lucy wasn't like her ancestors. These changes can happen a few different ways as an animal adapts to changes. Part of a group can be cut off from the original group for some reason. Then only the traits in the each group will help them adapt this way or that.

If one group of animals can't cope with a severe change in environment then they gradually become a minority with many of its similar species becoming extinct, and that gives the organisms that thrive in the changed environment to suddenly thrive and adapt and evolve.

Finally we get us and we are very adaptable, even without having to have physical traits selected for in many cases. It was a matter of time. Unless another species is getting more and more upright with bigger and bigger brains, then we may be the only species that are this adaptable in the mammal form. Our form is very successful, so for other species to become as successful as us, then they would have to start evolving like we did and up with a similar form. We don't have any severe changes in environment going on to start selecting for adaptable traits in other species though. Instead we are encroaching on environments and other species' numbers are dwindling. They won't have a diverse gene pool to help them evolve. They instead die off.

To see a big evolutionary change we'd need to dwindle in numbers and give the other life forms a chance to explode in numbers and mutate and adapt to freed up areas and evolve.

Look at marsupials in Australia. They had virtually no competition and all sorts of marsupials evolved. Some are quite similar the placental forms.

The placentals introduced to australia showed why we don't see the same diversity of marsupials elsewhere. The cats and bunnies caused mass marsupial extinctions by taking over food sources and living space. The placental form has advantages over the marsupial form.
 
Iacchus said:
Ever look at Egyptian hieroglyphics? It's all about "correspondences." The same with any other form of religious symbolism.

But they are phonetic in nature as well, so the poor plants will need translators...
 

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