A new investigation for 9/11. Why?

[Quad4_72]

One of my friends turned Twoofer. (She and her husband, actually!)
She told me that the only way to have a valid investigation was to have it conducted by "truly impartial" parties: people who weren't affiliated with either the government or 9/11 Truth. It would have to be a third party.

She didn't elaborate on who this third party could be, or who would pay for the investigation, and I didn't think to ask her. She got really evasive whenever you asked her any hard questions about the "movement".

I haven't seen her in a few years, I wonder if she's given up twoofiness, as so many others have.

Isn't it strange how a lot of these twoofers in person will become very evasive when asked about their beliefs? I have only met a few in person, and they changed the subject very quickly once I called them out on things.

And if there was another investigation run by people not affiliated with the woo or the government, then have at it. As long as I am not paying for it feel free to do so. The important questions have already been answered extensively, but if they feel like spending millions to bring to light some minor details have fun.

 

[alienentity]

Yes this is what I was getting at.

Exactly. The whole idea is an oxymoron, but since when is 9/11 'truth' logical, mature and thoughtful? Never, IMHO.
They're a bunch of attention seekers and paranoid hysterics. You'd never satisfy them, 'cause any competent investigation would certainly fail to implicate 'the vast conspiracyTM' (since it most likely doesn't exist/didn't happen) and they would cry foul. They run scared from any scientist who has an affiliation with government, so where would they turn? They've dug themselves the hole, they can wallow in it.

They don't deserve another investigation, because they've come up with nothing that would merit such a thing. Truther Kings such as Steven Jones are aware that the work they're doing will NOT lead to criminal prosecutions (he's said so), so it appears they're content to sling mud at any American who disagrees with their fantasies.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

And if there was another investigation run by people not affiliated with the woo or the government, then have at it. As long as I am not paying for it feel free to do so. The important questions have already been answered extensively, but if they feel like spending millions to bring to light some minor details have fun.

Exactly! They want an investigation, let them pay for it.
However, I get the impression they want the government to pay for it...using our tax dollars, of course.

 

[sylvan8798]

Exactly! They want an investigation, let them pay for it.
However, I get the impression they want the government to pay for it...using our tax dollars, of course.

The problem being, as soon as the government pays for it is not independent of the government. And even if it were paid for by some other body, if THEY didn't find the TM version, then any and all attempts would be made to show that they were actually not independent after all (a la "popular mechanics" for example).

Honestly, is there anyone here who doesn't have SOME connection to the US government somewhere, sometime?

 

[ElMondoHummus]

You mean you actually believe Luke? Thought doctors had better sense than that...well doctors other than neurologists with god complexes

T.A.M.'s a neurologist?? (Yeah, I already knew about the god complex).











Yes, I know TAM's an FP. But it's so much more enjoyable to poke fun at him a bit. So roll with it, reader!

 

[eromitlab]

Honestly, is there anyone here who doesn't have SOME connection to the US government somewhere, sometime?

Well, if you listen to truthers, they talk about JREF like we all have a direct connection to the government... via employment, to stop da twoof from getting out.

Truthers purposefully don't define anything about the New Investigation, other than to say we need one. They don't want to admit that the only suitable outcomes are for the government to either investigate itself and confess to the inside jobby job, or allow truthers to conduct the investigation with nearly unlimited power to question any suspect and toss them in jail for contempt if they don't provide the answers they want. In both instances, the final result will be the same... they want the New Investigation to confirm the truthers' talking points and validate them for all the sheeple, who will then venerate them as patriotic heroes and elevate them to positions of power, at which point they will be allowed to do whatever they want.

 

[Axiom_Blade]

.. they want the New Investigation to confirm the truthers' talking points and validate them for all the sheeple, who will then venerate them as patriotic heroes and elevate them to positions of power, at which point they will be allowed to do whatever they want.

I don't think most of the 9-11 deniers are really that evil. From what I can tell, "9/11 Truth" is to activism the same way fantasy football is to real football. They can convince themselves they're "making a difference" without really doing much of anything.

Conspiracy theorists are more concerned with "waking people up", than in lobbying government, anyway. (After all, why bother lobbying something that's completely corrupt, and controlled by the NWO/Illuminati?) This is why The Matrix was such a popular movie with that crowd. Each new convert is another foot soldier for the resistance.

However, you can't just tell people that your movement doesn't have any long-term goals other than "wake up as many people as possible". That just sounds lame...because, well, it is. For any movement to survive, you have to have some important, specific goal you're working towards.

The New Investigation angle has another benefit. My twoofer friend was the head of the local Green Party. She started by trotting out all the arguments about thermate, WTC 7, the melting point of steel, etc. etc., but I successfully shot them all down, largely thanks to JREF. After awhile, she could tell her arguments weren't holding any water, so she changed her tack to "Well, all we want is a new investigation. You don't oppose that, do you?" (In other words, "We're just asking questions!")

No, I don't oppose a new investigation per se, but I do oppose the government wasting any time on the fantasies of conspiracy theorists.

 

[Quad4_72]

I don't think most of the 9-11 deniers are really that evil. From what I can tell, "9/11 Truth" is to activism the same way fantasy football is to real football. They can convince themselves they're "making a difference" without really doing much of anything.

Are we talking about the same twoofers here? Most of the twoofers I know intentionally lie and deceive people to get their twisted point across. Its not about the real truth for them or being right or wrong. It is about perpetuating a fantasy. They don't give a damn about anyone that died on 9/11. If they did, they would not be at the ground zero memorial spewing filth. That is a place where thousands of people died and a place to remember those that lost their lives. They use it to piss on graves. So to say that they are more interested in activism is pretty false in my opinion.

 

[FineWine]

Or out doing "truth actions" to spread the information that most people are not even aware of.

Come to think of it, when I am out talking to people on the street I have a really hard time finding anyone that believes the Official Conspiracy Theory. Yet here on JREF I am repeatedly told how everyone believes the Official Conspiracy Theory and only a tiny tiny minority of people believe it was an inside job. I guess that means I have extreme luck in meeting almost exclusively people who do not believe the Official Conspiracy Theory...Hmmm that MUST be a conspiracy as well

There is, as you know, no "official" conspiracy theory. Your repeated use of this debunked term confirms that you are a liar. You are, of course, lying when you pretend that people you meet swallow the idiocy that enslaves your mind.

 

[FineWine]

Yeah, they would be out collecting 52,000 signatures to get the issue on the ballot.

Hey, after trolling the second-most leftist city in America for years, with a pool of, say, 15 million people to draw from, the lying jackasses gathered the names of 52 THOUSAND America-haters?! Wow!
If I circulated in NYC a petition to disembowel Sarah Palin, I'd get 250 THOUSAND names the first day.

 

[Quad4_72]

Hey, after trolling the second-most leftist city in America for years, with a pool of, say, 15 million people to draw from, the lying jackasses gathered the names of 52 THOUSAND America-haters?! Wow!
If I circulated in NYC a petition to disembowel Sarah Palin, I'd get 250 THOUSAND names the first day.

Dare I say that the people who signed the petition were simply asked if they wanted a new investigation, not whether or not they believed that the government was behind 9/11...

 

[T.A.M.]

T.A.M.'s a neurologist?? (Yeah, I already knew about the god complex).











Yes, I know TAM's an FP. But it's so much more enjoyable to poke fun at him a bit. So roll with it, reader!

I'll show you poke!!!

TAM

 

[deep]

Dare I say that the people who signed the petition were simply asked if they wanted a new investigation, not whether or not they believed that the government was behind 9/11...

Instead of sharing your uninformed speculation with everyone, why not just go read the petition? It's posted on their website.

Make sure to read the fine print - you'll notice that the budget is 10 million per year, all private funding. You'll also notice this:

"2. An independent, temporary New York City commission (the “Commission”) is hereby created to conduct a comprehensive, fact-driven investigation into the events that took place on 9/11, as well as to thoroughly examine related events before and after the attacks, including any activities attempting to hide, cover up, impede or obstruct any investigation into these 9/11 events, following wherever the facts may lead. The Commission shall publish one or more reports of their findings."​

..and this:

"14. The Commission by a majority vote shall have the right, to seek indictments in any relevant Court located in the City of New York, or elsewhere and, at its discretion, to work with existing prosecutorial agencies or to seek the appointment of a special prosecutor under Section 701 of the New York County Law."​

..and, finally, this:

16. No New York City employee, past or present, shall have the right to avoid testifying before the Commission based on any prior agreements not to disclose or testify with any officials or agencies of New York City or other governmental agency; the Commission has the power to maintain secrecy and confidentiality of testimony or other disclosures where appropriate.​

52,000 signatures.

 

[Baylor]

52,000 signatures.

Does everyone know what the petition is for. Some people sign a petition and have no idea what the petition is for--take pedobear for example.

 

[Baylor]

I agree with B.J. Harddick. No way someone could pretend to be someone he's not. Especially on a truther petition. I now call for an independent investigation into the attacks of 9/11. Three buildings falling from two airplanes? BJ Harddick thinks that's a little hard to swallow.

 

[1337m4n]

I bet I can get 52,000 people to sign a petition to ban water.

 

[deep]

I agree with B.J. Harddick. No way someone could pretend to be someone he's not. Especially on a truther petition. I now call for an independent investigation into the attacks of 9/11. Three buildings falling from two airplanes? BJ Harddick thinks that's a little hard to swallow.

They have paid, I believe, $75,000 to have all of the signatures verified. Yes -signatures. It's not an online petition.

 

[Justin39640]

They have paid, I believe, $75,000 to have all of the signatures verified. Yes -signatures. It's not an online petition.

they want accountability
theyre not looking for nano-lasers

they want to know why the intel failed us and if heads should roll for that
its not woo

if woo comes up and they are truly unbiased itll get smacked down

 

[Baylor]

They have paid, I believe, $75,000 to have all of the signatures verified. Yes -signatures. It's not an online petition.

What are the "unanswered questions" the petition refers to and why did they leave it out?

 

[BigAl]

Instead of sharing your uninformed speculation with everyone, why not just go read the petition? It's posted on their website.

52,000 signatures.

How many verified signatures are required to get on the ballot?

FWIW, the Web sign-up is irrelevant. The Elections board requires ink signatures on official forms and the verification process is computerized to eliminate signatures of non-residents, non-voters, duplicates, silly names, etc. That is what the have found $75k (or so it is claimed) to clean up the list to the BoE standards.

Do they claim to have 52,000 ink-and-paper signatures? Maybe they have. I bet that 9 out of 10 will be invalid for one reason or another, many for plain-old illegibility.

Today the campaign I am associated with just delivered 4,100 signatures to the BoE for the Sept 15 primary and we did our own computer verification. We know we have good names that will withstand any attempts by opposition lawyers to kick us off the ballot. 4,000 good signatures is lots and lots of work.