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A fundy committed suicide.

Blutarsky said:
Let me be abundantly clear. I have never, and will never expect to see a thread entitled "A skeptic committed suicide" in tandem with questions intimating that his skepticism or lack of belief played a part in his demise. Does my query still confuse you or is this double standard that hard to see?
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Then you haven't much imagination.

As a former fundie, I would love nothing better than to be able to comfort myself with the thought that my dead mother, who is now a collection of ash and bone bits in a cardboard box in my sister's bedroom closet is, instead, enjoying her afterlife on a soft, fluffy cloud in heaven.

But she's not. And I've fought suicide for two years now without that comfort, which would help immensely. I'm not saying I'm about to kill myself. I am saying that my inability to believe fantasy is reality would be contributory--largely contributory--were I ever to do so.

Imagine harder. And climb off that high horse.
 
CriticalSock said:
Who has cracked a joke in this thread? I think your sanctimonius attitude has clouded your ability to understand other people.
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*raises hand* I did. Post #7.

In my defense, though, I don't think it's possible to offend a dead person any more, nor can anything be done to comfort them any more.

I can't say I feel any schadenfreude or superiority about the guy, though. I think death just is and that suicide is a valid personal choice. (I already horrified a couple of people with that before, but I assure you that it's a honest belief and not for shock value.) If that's what he chose, I can respect that.

At any rate, I'm all for making help available while he's still alive, _if_ he wants help. If he'd rather blow his brains instead, I'm not gonna force help upon him.

But after he's dead, he's dead, really. It's a tragedy, but it's not like it can be helped any more, nor like he can be comforted or offended any more. That's it. No matter what jokes I my crack about my own hypothetical suicide note in the future, it's not like it's going to help or harm that particular lawyer any more.
 
I’m certainly not a doctor or psychologist or anything, but I would guess bi-polar. If you become a bit mentally unstable, you can get to a point where you feel that you have GOT to do something. This makes sense from a survival standpoint, but the “something” that someone comes up with could be anything. It might be working 90 hours per week, or posting on the JREF Forums, or using drugs or alcohol, or killing people, or killing yourself, or starting a new obsessive hobby, or mastering the guitar, or preaching some religion. The thing the person chooses to do might be perceived by others a good or bad. For the person, the issue of good or bad is irrelevant. It is simply what they have GOT to do. Kill someone, master the guitar, take drugs, preach a religion, kill myself. They are all the same. They are all just random action that you fell that you have GOT to do.

So when he was preaching to you, he just felt like he was doing what he had to do. If you accepted his preaching, I would feel like he had move closer to accomplishing his impossible goal of what he has GOT to do. If you rejected his preaching, he would have to keep on preaching because that is what he has GOT to do.

At some point his focus on “I have GOT to preach”, and any other things that he felt that he has GOT to do (and there probably were more), shifted to “I have GOT to kill myself”. It is a small shift. It could have been anything. Feeling that you have GOT to do something is very stressful. The idea of dealing with a child may have pushed the stress level to shift the focus. Or it could have been anything. Once your mind is in a position that you have GOT to do something, the WHAT you do doesn’t matter much. Once what you do doesn’t matter much, then you can easily do anything.

And if your crazy grandiose scheme of converting 6 billion people to a religion and becoming a world leader by preaching to a few people in bars doesn’t work out---and something requires that you shift your goals (like having a child), then you start considering other "GOT to do somethings" that WILL work. Of course the most easy and reliable choices are not good: drugs or suicide are both easy and reliable.
 
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I'm with eeny. He sounds like a man who was mentally ill. The proselytising was a symptom of mental instability, not a cause.

I do wonder how the two bodies of which he was a member- the legal profession and his church- viewed him . It seems likely an obsessional man as he seems to have been would have been marginalised by both, when what he needed was support.
 
Starthinker said:
I thought only Catholics believed suicide was an unpardonable sin. I was raised Baptist, had 4 Baptist preachers in the family and none of them believed that.
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I just found out, since I looked up something on mortal sin and stumbled across suicide, that what you describe is the Eastern Orthodox position. The Catholics seem to have moderated their stance on that.

Thanks for helping put the E into JREF for me, your point was on my mind the other day as I looked up mortal sin and such, so I was attuned to the topic.

DR
 
He was a lawyer, right?
Lawyers have a very, very high rate of depression and suicide compared to non-lawyers.
 
Poor guy. I hope his wife and baby come through it all okay.

I think depression and suicidal thoughts are irrational, and really overwhelm any logical "reasons to live". Regardless of anything anyone really and truly believes, how good one's life might be, the depression can feel like a big black hole sucking everything in. JK Rowling, describing the Dementors in the Harry Potter books really describes it pretty clearly, I think, "I felt like I'd never be happy again" - and that removes all cognition of everything else.
 
Blutarsky said:
This has to be one of the most ignorant and insensitive threads ever started on this forum. I can deal with the skeptics here that pose faux "questions" about religion; particularly about the Bible. Questions that are nothing more than bait, hoping a Christian will engage so that said skeptic(s) can get their ideological rocks off and "prove" the folly of the religious.

Here are some delightful examples:

Did Jesus did not know the date of his return?
He Died to Save Us From Our Sins. Huh?
My God, why hast thou forsaken me?

Most, if not all of these threads devolve into a skeptic's grab-a** party where one skeptic high-fives another in a triumphalist display of their unmatched brilliance while they simultaneously mock the poor, illogical, and quite delusional believer. Lather, rinse, repeat...ad infinitum.

What I cannot accept is why another human being would choose to delight in the pain and suffering of another by cracking jokes, for any reason, or turn such a tragedy into an opportunity to impugn the individual.

People connected with Skepticism, Christianity, Judaism, Rotary Club, Athletes, and any other group you can think of can commit suicide. I can remember a prominent atheist connected to Infidels who committed suicide a few years ago. I also remember the sorrow I felt for him and his friends and family when I read about it. Never did I feel the need to drag him through the mud for his beliefs, or lack thereof. He was a REAL person who's reach extended to people that loved and cared for him and they have to carry the burdens of his death with them for the rest of their lives.

In short, you sir or maam are a disgusting human being.

I hope whatever pleasure your post provided you was worth it.
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Pleasure? i didn't get any pleasure at all from this mans suicide. I thought I made it clear that I was sorry for his wife, unborn baby and poor grieving old mother. Nothing about my post is a joke. Take my word for it I never cracked a smile.
 
AvalonXQ said:
No, tragedy. Lawyers don't deserve it any more than anyone does. I strongly and viscerally resent your implication.
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My humor is often a bit subtle. Justice, scales that balance, lawyers do a great deal to ruin the lives of others (and also the other way around, to help others) so it's a bizarre balancing that brings the influential, wealthy, and powerful -- in our society, lawyers and doctors are on that list -- lower than low with that most profound expression of having no power over one's life and sadness, and no will to continue living.

A curious balancing of the scales.

Justice, the blind lady, often seen holding a scale.

DR
 
AvalonXQ said:
I re-read the Membership Agreement and edited my post accordingly.
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I appreciate your gallantry, having missed whatever shot you sent across my bow. If you are an attorney, I also appreciate the visceral reaction.

DR
 
Darth Rotor said:
My humor is often a bit subtle. Justice, scales that balance, lawyers do a great deal to ruin the lives of others (and also the other way around, to help others) so it's a bizarre balancing that brings the influential, wealthy, and powerful -- in our society, lawyers and doctors are on that list -- lower than low with that most profound expression of having no power over one's life and sadness, and no will to continue living.

A curious balancing of the scales.

Justice, the blind lady, often seen holding a scale.

DR
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I understand your humor, and I find it revolting.
Lawyers, like doctors, hold the lives of others in their hands.
Lawyers, like doctors, have demanding jobs that with high requisites of time and intellect and little room for error.
Lawyers, unlike doctors, are villified in our culture -- in posts like yours.
So, the pressure is there, the anxiety is there, and on top of it many aren't reminded that what they do is beneficial or important.
Lawyers' high suicide rates are not "justice", are not "deserved" and are not a good thing. They're a result of stress and abuse, of which your attitude contributes.
I apologize if my reaction seems too personal.
 
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AvalonXQ said:
They're a result of stress and abuse, of which your attitude contributes.
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No, my attitude took a lifetime to develop, since I initially held lawyers in high regard. It was experience that taught me otherwise. The self loathing they may have brought upon themselves, or not, but blaming me for it is quite a missed shot.

DR
 
Darth Rotor said:
The self loathing they may have brought upon themselves, or not, but blaming me for it is quite a missed shot.
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You perpetuate the problem.
Wishing death on a group of people is not admirable, is not fit for humor, and is not appreciated.
 
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