A fundy committed suicide.

[Piscivore]

All the fundies I know are absolutely forbidden to kill themselves by their god so if they did find themselves in such a desperate situation they'd probably look for a loophole like Police assisted suicide, not something as blatant as shooting themselves in the head.

Isn't suicide a "mortal sin" in Christian theology? A sin that will not be forgiven. Do not pass heaven, go straight to hell?

That just goes to show that making assumptions about people and what they "must" think or "should" do based only on what they profess to believe is inherently error prone. Any mere ideology or belief is going to come in second to a contrary emotional impulse if it is strong enough.

 

[shalomsteph]

People normally aren't rational when they commit suicide. They aren't thinking much about their family, or if they are, they are thinking their family is better off without them. It isn't a self pity thing...it is called depression. It clouds thinking and judgment.

It seems to me that people who are mentally ill gravitate towards fundamentalist style religions. I think it helps them feel in control when their brain is out of control. It must really be both scary and exhausting to continually fight "demons*" every single minute of every day.

It is, in the end, very sad for his wife. Hopefully she has a good support system to help her raise the baby, because his life insurance may not pay out on a suicide. I also hope she has emotional support, because being a single parent is difficult. I think her husband committing suiciide is even more difficult than a natural death or car accident, because she will believe he didn't love her enough to fight his feelings and live. This isn't true, of course...he likely believed that she was better off without him.



*demons meaning frightening voices, imagery and suicidal ideation.

 

[CriticalSock]

That just goes to show that making assumptions about people and what they "must" think or "should" do based only on what they profess to believe is inherently error prone. Any mere ideology or belief is going to come in second to a contrary emotional impulse if it is strong enough.

You haven't met my sister...

An ideology or belief is going to influence the method of acting on a strong emotional impulse surely? And I wasn't making an assumption about what he "should" have done or making a value judgement if he did commit suicide.

 

[Cainkane1]

Maybe he didn't kill himself? Do Fundamentalist christians normally have guns?

Does the fact that he was a fundamentalist christian make you think it more likely that he committed suicide?

All the fundies I know are absolutely forbidden to kill themselves by their god so if they did find themselves in such a desperate situation they'd probably look for a loophole like Police assisted suicide, not something as blatant as shooting themselves in the head.

He shot himself in the chest with a Smith & Wesson .44 magnum revolver. Maybe he wanted an open casket funeral. The police did rule it a suicide although I can see why people would think it was an accident. Fundys are often gun enthusiasts but then so am I. I own some weapons including a handgun.

The man was a certified nutcase. I knew him well enough to know this. Once before the manager threw him out of the bar I went to another watering hole in an effort to avoid him. He went to one bar after another in town looking for me even though I had told him numerous times I wanted to hear none of what he had to say. He was a stalker.

How do I know he was looking all over for me? He told me. My eyes rolled heavenward and I told him to just leave me the hell alone. He kept preaching and I paid my bill and went home in the middle of his speech. He followed me all the way to my car flapping his arms and preaching at me. This happened a few years before he did himself in. He was thrown out of every bar in town and unless I'm mistaken the police were called on him a few times.

 

[Darth Rotor]

Or anything that is secret but also disgusted him.

Such as, being an alcoholic? A recovering alcoholic?

I dunno, if I were to take my life, I think I'd take the time to leave a note. Probably to the effect of "bwahaha, now you'll never find the hostages." Ought to confuse them for a good couple of years

Snort

You could listen to his drivel and tell something was really off. I mean all the "Hey I'm not interested" in the world wouldn't stop his incessant preaching. I think he was insane.

A moot point now, since he's dead, a different category than insane.

In the end God will judge whether he was truly a Christian, and whether or not he will spend eternity in hell or with God.

Thank you for your compassion and rudity.

Let's at least give him some credit for not taking his family with him.

Yes, silver lining to the cloud. A mercy.

For someone to judge them based on what little information you have, never having lived their life, is rather callous and hypocritical.

I judge him as an obnoxious person because when I told him I wasn't interested in his religious drivel he kept on talking anyway. I judge him as selfish for leaving his widow and a grieving mother. If he was depressed he should have sough help.

Why do you think he was talking to you? Perhaps it was a cry for help, in the only way he know how to cry? That's a reach, yes, but people are strange, when you're a stranger ...

Do Fundamentalist christians normally have guns?

That's stupid question. The two conditions are unrelated to one another.

All the fundies I know are absolutely forbidden to kill themselves by their god

Guess that stops them, eh?

Having spent the last two years seriously--more seriously than ever before in my life--fighting suicide, all I can say is that anyone who does it is likely in more pain than they can bear.

Poor man.

Yep, and a pity he didn't find the right set of ears to hear his cries of pain.

Isn't suicide a "mortal sin" in Christian theology? A sin that will not be forgiven. Do not pass heaven, go straight to hell?

Depends. I recently learned that what I thought the teachings on that were was wrong, so I look at the hundreds of denominations and figure that you have to ask each sect on their perspective.

All the creationist and ID books my dad used to give me were always written by lawyers or journalists. Two professions in which twisting words and meanings are part of the job description.

Trying to figure the relationship of this to a suicide.

People normally aren't rational when they commit suicide. They aren't thinking much about their family, or if they are, they are thinking their family is better off without them.

If they think their family is better off without them, and then choose to do themselves in, there is a certain logical progression there that I'd call rational, in a tragic sense.

It seems to me that people who are mentally ill gravitate towards fundamentalist style religions.

Well poison much?

It is, in the end, very sad for his wife.

Yep. If he'd been thinking of her more than of himself, maybe he'd not have done this. Why do I say that? I have found that when I feel down, the best way to get out of that state is to go and help someone else with their problem or challenge.

You haven't met my sister... .

Should we?

He shot himself in the chest with a Smith & Wesson .44 magnum revolver. Maybe he wanted an open casket funeral. The police did rule it a suicide although I can see why people would think it was an accident.

The man was a certified nutcase. I knew him well enough to know this. Once before the manager threw him out of the bar I went to another watering hole in an effort to avoid him. He went to one bar after another in town looking for me even though I had told him numerous times I wanted to hear none of what he had to say. He was a stalker.

Did you ever call the cops?

Ok so why do you guys think he did it?

He ran out of reasons to face getting up each morning.

Did God want him in Heaven? Probably. Did he want him "right now" in Heaven? Probably not.

DR

 

[Foster Zygote]

How sad. I wonder if his aggressive preaching was his way of trying to cope with whatever pain he was experiencing. I also wonder if he would have gone through with it had he been in a condition to anticipate the pain that his suicide has caused to his family.

 

[Cainkane1]

Such as, being an alcoholic? A recovering alcoholic?

Snort

A moot point now, since he's dead, a different category than insane.

Thank you for your compassion and rudity.

Yes, silver lining to the cloud. A mercy.

Why do you think he was talking to you? Perhaps it was a cry for help, in the only way he know how to cry? That's a reach, yes, but people are strange, when you're a stranger ...

That's stupid question. The two conditions are unrelated to one another.

Guess that stops them, eh?

Yep, and a pity he didn't find the right set of ears to hear his cries of pain.


Depends. I recently learned that what I thought the teachings on that were was wrong, so I look at the hundreds of denominations and figure that you have to ask each sect on their perspective.

Trying to figure the relationship of this to a suicide.

If they think their family is better off without them, and then choose to do themselves in, there is a certain logical progression there that I'd call rational, in a tragic sense.

Well poison much?

Yep. If he'd been thinking of her more than of himself, maybe he'd not have done this. Why do I say that? I have found that when I feel down, the best way to get out of that state is to go and help someone else with their problem or challenge.

Should we?

Did you ever call the cops?

He ran out of reasons to face getting up each morning.

Did God want him in Heaven? Probably. Did he want him "right now" in Heaven? Probably not.

DR

No I never called the police. His father was a noted attorney in town and I felt he would be let go without consequences. Remember he was a lawyer himself.

 

[bookitty]

His poor wife. No one needs to come home to find a loved one dead on the floor.

But you have to wonder about a woman who stays married to a psycho street-preacher. Did he seem to get worse after she was pregnant? So many of the fundies see the world as a horrible place, they can't wait for it to go up in flames. Perhaps thinking that the child would be born into this "wickedness" was too much?

Guess we'll never know.

Why is it though that the fundies are so obsessed with ugly thoughts? And with forcing those thoughts on their fellow man?

 

[Darth Rotor]

No I never called the police. His father was a noted attorney in town and I felt he would be let go without consequences. Remember he was a lawyer himself.

Ah, I can see the problem there.

DR

 

[Starthinker]

I thought only Catholics believed suicide was an unpardonable sin. I was raised Baptist, had 4 Baptist preachers in the family and none of them believed that.

 

[Piscivore]

You haven't met my sister...

An ideology or belief is going to influence the method of acting on a strong emotional impulse surely?

Well, sure. And a lot of times these ideologies and beliefs are themselves held for primarily emotional reasons.

And I wasn't making an assumption about what he "should" have done or making a value judgement if he did commit suicide.

I know you didn't, I was just working off what you did say to warn against the usual trend here to find logical fallacies or inconsistancies in an emotional act.

 

[Piscivore]

How sad. I wonder if his aggressive preaching was his way of trying to cope with whatever pain he was experiencing.

I think that's pretty likely.

 

[ExMinister]

There does seem an over-riding idea among fundamentalist Protestants that accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior overcomes any and all sin, so perhaps that applies to suicide too.

People have various reasons for reaching the point he reached. I agree with Slingblade that they are usually in tremendous pain. Often there's a great deal of self-hatred/self-contempt mixed in, too.

 

[willhaven]

Also, anyone who does kill themselves is psychologically in a lot of pain, ridiculing them for that is not in any way shape or form, OK.

Why not? It's not as though he's going to be upset or pissed off when you ridicule him. He's dead.

I'm of the belief that anyone without some sort of painful and irreversible affliction is an idiot for killing themselves.

 

[Piscivore]

I'm of the belief that anyone without some sort of painful and irreversible affliction is an idiot for killing themselves.

Who has done that?

 

[Olowkow]

...............
Ok so why do you guys think he did it? Did God want him in Heaven right then and there? Was he mentally deranged? What?

Impossible to know, but he would have to be deranged to go to bars and confront drunks. Believers don't have a heaven for suicides. So, forget that one. I'm betting it was something so trivial for us atheists, as to be risible. Obsessive belief in demons and gods is just eventually very destructive. I feel for the wife and kid.

 

[ProbeX]

Usually there are several stressors that lead to suicide. But if I had to guess about some common denominators, based on your description, I'd say Bipolar I (the manic phase of it), or paranoid schizophrenia. Not sure why, but both often include heavy fixations on religion; especially of the "brimstone and fire" variety.

The manic phase of Bipolar I can actually resemble paranoid schizophrenia. Did he always appear revved up and hyper-religious? Were there ever times when you saw him that he seemed more more quiet and withdrawn; maybe even depressed? Was he violent, or generally calm? Did you know for sure he was a lawyer, or did he just claim that? Sorry about all the questions. I don't expect all these to be answered. Mostly just thinking out loud.

Another more obvious possibility, again given his extreme chattiness and religious ideation, could be an untreated form of epilepsy ( ... of the temporal lobe).

Forgot to add: Bookitty asked about his wife: why would she stay with him? I'm thinking that might point more toward Bipolar I. That would mean there were likely times when he didn't act crazy, which might have been an incentive for her to stay and hope her husband got better. This is all guesswork LOL.

 

[EeneyMinnieMoe]

A fundy lawyer used to come into several of the bars in town preaching the gospel and basically telling us we were going to hell if we didn't quit using alcohol. He was kicked out of every bar in town.

Surely he, as a devout Christian, knew that Jesus and the Apostles drank alcohol? What did he think the priest passes out in church every Sunday, grape juice?

Of course, I was raised Catholic and the Catholic Church doesn't ban alcohol, unless it is used to the point of serious intoxication. The Protestants might have a different policy.

As for why he committed suicide, only he knew.

Edit: As for religion, you might be looking at it through the wrong end of the telescope. Maybe it wasn't that religion contributed to or caused his instability, it was that his instability lead him to religion as a source of comfort. And it didn't entirely work. Or worked some but not enough. Or eventually stopped working.

Or maybe one has little or nothing to do with the other and they are unrelated facts.

 

[Piscivore]

Edit: As for religion, you might be looking at it through the wrong end of the telescope. Maybe it wasn't that religion contributed to or caused his instability, it was that his instability lead him to religion as a source of comfort. And it didn't entirely work. Or worked some but not enough. Or eventually stopped working.

Or maybe one has little or nothing to do with the other and they are unrelated facts.

This.

 

[Cainkane1]

I thought only Catholics believed suicide was an unpardonable sin. I was raised Baptist, had 4 Baptist preachers in the family and none of them believed that.

He was what we southeasterners call a hard shell baptist.