Merged 9/11 No Plane/Energy Weapon discussion thread

[George 152]

I struggle to believe you take anything seriously.

I'm coming round to the opinion that she's just making it up as she goes along...

 

[Steve]

As long as today, in 2012, there is no one on JREF who denies the existence of energy weapons, I'm good.

A weapon that imparted no energy to its target would be... what's the word I'm looking for??.....oh yes - useless.

 

[1337m4n]

So you consider a super-secret laser device capable of defying everything we know about physics up to this point, to be a more plausible explanation than "y'know, maybe I just had mistaken expectations of what the burning ruin of a collapsed skyscraper would smell like".

I mean, had you ever smelled any burning skyscraper ruins prior to 9/11?

 

[DGM]

Wow. Lots of questions. Before I answer them, what are your initial impressions of the dump truck image?

I'm in construction and my initial impression is something was recently dumped in that container (By the way, that's a roll-off box not a dump truck). That picture does not contain enough information to make anything more than a hasty uneducated guess. Is that how you would like to run an investigation?

Give us context, is this part of a video?

 

[WTC Dust]

Yes I do. And in fact I set up an experiment to test the interaction of ozone with fluorocarbons in a lab environment in about 1975. That was original research, perhaps not a question unanswered.

But that's not really the issue. The real issue is that you are not even attempting to be scientific when you point to a picture of a dump truck and declare that there is some kind of mysterious 'fuming'. That's infantile and you should stop doing it.

Apparently my critical thinking skills trump your Pharmacology PhD in dumptruck-dust analysis.

Thing is, you have to actually account for the images. Each one needs an explanation. My theory accounts for the anomalies.

 

[WTC Dust]

Yes it does, under the correct circumstances. Your PhD isn't helping much here, nor it seems does your life experiences. I can think of a number of things happening in that photo that have nothing to do with "fumes."

Destroying fluorescent lighting as just one example.

Once upon a time I was a supervisor for one of the largest building/construction maintenance firms in Chicago, and I threw lots of stuff into dumpsters.

Life experiences? Life experiences? Baby, I was on the job starting right away. If you'd have been living practically next door to the weirdest terrorist attacks on record, you might have paid attention to it like I did.

Not for one minute did I believe a plane crash theory. I'm proud of that.

 

[plague311]

So you consider a super-secret laser device capable of defying everything we know about physics up to this point, to be a more plausible explanation than "y'know, maybe I just had mistaken expectations of what the burning ruin of a collapsed skyscraper would smell like".

I mean, had you ever smelled any burning skyscraper ruins prior to 9/11?

She already answered that. So far, Tracy's PHD in pharmawhatever makes her an expert on:

A) Smells
B) Weapons
C) Fumes
D) Foam
E) Dust
F) Physics
H) Scientific research processes
I) Any thing and everything else that would make her theory prove to be true.

Dusty is head and shoulders above all of us. It's not that she's wrong, it's that you are. Deal with it.

 

[WTC Dust]

There is a fairly brisk wind blowing across it, thus producing the uniform height of the dust for the full length of the dumpster.

This wind is, of course, stirring up further dust from the bottom.

There is some wind. Fairly brisk? OK, I'll give you that, even though I don't think the air was moving all that briskly at that moment. The fumes rise up quite a distance before they start moving to the right.

And you're point? That these fumes are drywall? Anyway, I smelled the fumes 100+ days later, as strong as on Day 2. Get this through your head. The fumes didn't go away! I'm a personal witness to this. I guess I could be one of those class action lawsuit type of gals, but I don't know who to sue.

 

[WTC Dust]

I'VE POINTED OUT SEVERAL TIMES THAT THE *********** SCULPTURE WAS CAST THAT WAY IN THE 1960'S.

EMBIGGENED AND COMIC SANS'ed FOR YOU PLEASURE.

It was cast with a curled up base, exploded outward and curled up top section, and many holes that had blown-out curled up bits in it?

By the way, I love the word embiggen.

 

[jaydeehess]

I think that is what he was saying...

That is indeed what I was saying.

Imagine the scene:

One is at one's desk getting a start on the day's work, or at least on that floor enjoying chit chat with co-workers before getting down to it. Its beautiful Autumn day out the windows.

Perhaps you see the plane coming but very likely most people did not as it would be soundless until the last few seconds, and at any event only those facing the plane had a chance of seeing and these people are the most likely to die immediately after impact.

With little warning then your immediate surroundings are torn apart, the sound is close to deafening, flames immediately follow the physical destruction. You only survive this by chance, perhaps there is a wall and file cabinets between you and the destruction.

The physical destruction stops but the floor you are on is unrecognizable from a few seconds before. There are fires raging, desks, chairs and other furniture as well as walls phones, computers, aircraft parts, and people who were hale hearty and alive mere seconds ago are strewn about and most are not whole. The sound of the fires is a new roar, not as loud as impact but equally frightening. Parts of the floor are crumbled near the impact while further along the path of destruction piles of debris block exits. The scene is disoreinting since many normal office 'landmarks' are missing or have moved.

You most definately fear for your life but rather than panic you manage to hold onto sanity and look for a way out. Those who stop to help others, who are injured or trapped, are heroic but it does reduce their chances of getting out in time.

Here's where there are two major paths in what happens next;
- you make your way around fires and debris and find an exit to the stairwell and you survive
OR
- you either find your way to an exit too late and the building goes down before you get out, or even more hellish, you cannot get to an exit. Perhaps they are blocked by fire or debris or perhaps you are injured and cannot get to one in time before fire blocks it or the building goes down.

I fail to see where at any point in the above, that a normal person would even think to stop and take pictures. In fact those who might do so reduce their chances of survival as time is of the essence obviously.

 

[WTC Dust]

From a chemist's point of view, none of the things you mentioned were substantially composed of anything other than carbon-based materials, which do not burn hot enough in an open fire to significantly damage heavy steel beams.

It's one of the reasons why skyscrapers in all cases are made of steel. You can guarantee that they will survive a fire. Depsite the efforts of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, I doubt the learning curriculum has changed much in architecture departments around the country.

Steel is, after all, an almost magically strong material. It's really strong, steel.

I have csome training in forensics, specificly related to arson investigations. I also have experience fighting fires very similar to the WTC fires, differing mostly by scale.

You have not offered any proof that the fires are at all unusual, aside from the astounding fact that some idiotic religious whackadoodles flew airplanes into the sides of the towers to make them collapse.

You will rarely smell a garbage dump fire these days. It is illegal in most places to burn garbage.

Hopefull, you will never again smell a fire in which human corpses are part of the fuel load.

What was most unique about the WTC fires is that they were burning a combination of trash and electronics compn ents which may notbe legally disposed of as trash, plus garbage from the food service operations within the buioldings and, as I mentioned, human corpses.

Of course it was not an ordinary fire, because you are not, ordinarily, going to find those things in the ruins and rubble.

The smell was not the result of any form of exotic energy weapon.

 

[Dash80]

Life experiences? Life experiences? Baby, I was on the job starting right away. If you'd have been living practically next door to the weirdest terrorist attacks on record, you might have paid attention to it like I did.

Not for one minute did I believe a plane crash theory. I'm proud of that.

You are proud of being ignorant?

You are proud of disrespecting victims?

You are proud of calling people liars?

Wow. Well that just says it all really!

 

[MarkCorrigan]

Bumping so Dusty can answer my question.

 

[WTC Dust]

I earned my PhD in 1999, and I lived practically next door to the WTC before and for many years after the attacks of 9/11.

I didn't plan to study the 9/11 attacks when I earned my PhD. I got caught up in this, and nobody else got it right before me, except Judy Wood.

She already answered that. So far, Tracy's PHD in pharmawhatever makes her an expert on:

A) Smells
B) Weapons
C) Fumes
D) Foam
E) Dust
F) Physics
H) Scientific research processes
I) Any thing and everything else that would make her theory prove to be true.

Dusty is head and shoulders above all of us. It's not that she's wrong, it's that you are. Deal with it.

 

[Dash80]

From a chemist's point of view, none of the things you mentioned were substantially composed of anything other than carbon-based materials, which do not burn hot enough in an open fire to significantly damage heavy steel beams.

It's one of the reasons why skyscrapers in all cases are made of steel. You can guarantee that they will survive a fire. Depsite the efforts of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, I doubt the learning curriculum has changed much in architecture departments around the country.

Steel is, after all, an almost magically strong material. It's really strong, steel.

No, no it really isn't THAT strong.

If a big ol' lump of ice can sink a steel hulled ship (Titanic, and more recently an Antarctic expedition cruise ship), it's really not that indestructable is it.

ETA: In the case of heat, if steel is so god damn strong why bother using fireproofing?

 

[dafydd]

From a chemist's point of view, none of the things you mentioned were substantially composed of anything other than carbon-based materials, which do not burn hot enough in an open fire to significantly damage heavy steel beams.

It's one of the reasons why skyscrapers in all cases are made of steel. You can guarantee that they will survive a fire. Depsite the efforts of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth, I doubt the learning curriculum has changed much in architecture departments around the country.

Steel is, after all, an almost magically strong material. It's really strong, steel.

You haven't got a PhD, have you?

 

[NoahFence]

I'm in construction and my initial impression is something was recently dumped in that container (By the way, that's a roll-off box not a dump truck). That picture does not contain enough information to make anything more than a hasty uneducated guess. Is that how you would like to run an investigation?

Give us context, is this part of a video?

That's exactly how she wants us to investigate. Exactly like she does.

Without evidence, fact or brain power.

 

[NoahFence]

You haven't got a PhD, have you? [qimg]http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/imagehosting/thum_234094fbd650298974.jpg[/qimg]

I never believed for one second that she had/has a PhD. Nobody in the world could go through what it takes to get a PhD and come out the other side with the just flat-out insane : that she invents. It's amazing.

 

[dafydd]

I never believed for one second that she had/has a PhD. Nobody in the world could go through what it takes to get a PhD and come out the other side with the just flat-out insane : that she invents. It's amazing.

She claims to have one but I am very dubious.

 

[Dash80]

Bumping so Dusty can answer my question.

Yeah, about that... Probably not gonna happen. It's possible you will get a response, but I doubt it would answer anything. Or even make sense for that matter.