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9/11 CTs in general

andreasz said:
I am actually a conspiracy virgin ;) I do believe that there are definitely certain things that are kept from the people and that people don't need to know. For the greater good. But there are also things that are kept from us that shouldn't be.

But about the AIDS conspiracy and JFK... That's guessworking in my opinion
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Ok. Then consider this:

1 person in Norway watches videos and claims there were no planes. You choose to believe him.

You choose not to believe these:
-Thousands of eyewitnesses seeing the planes with their own eyes.
-DNA of the passengers and hijackers found at the scene.
-Parts of planes found at the scene.
-Radar records.
-Air traffic controllers.
-Multiple videos showing planes.


Do you see, why your ideas seem so absurd?
 
A-Train said:
Here's a video that will cause you to drop the No Plane Theory, and instead embrace the No Human Pilot Theory:

http://investigate911.se/911_United_175_Nose_Dive_Bomber.html
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I watched your marvelous video and it convinced me that the pilot was inexperienced and determined to crash into a tall building regardless of how many limitations he exceeded on that B-767.

What's really pathetic is that many people died because of that maneuver, yet you ignoramuses expect decent people to watch it over and over again without getting sick to their stomach every time.

I don't believe there are enough words in the English language to describe my contempt for you and your kind.:mad:
 
ref: I know all that... But I know for a fact what TV can do. Think about it: Make billions of people believe what happened... How much do a few hundred or thousands count? Who cares?
 
andreasz said:
ref: I know all that... But I know for a fact what TV can do. Think about it: Make billions of people believe what happened... How much do a few hundred or thousands count? Who cares?
Click to expand...
but those hundreds or thousands are the ones who know what happened without having to see it on TV, youd think theyd be the most important witnesses, but you dismiss them wholesale because they disagree with your preconceived notions
 
andreasz said:
ref: I know all that... But I know for a fact what TV can do. Think about it: Make billions of people believe what happened... How much do a few hundred or thousands count? Who cares?
Click to expand...


Right. So, where’s your evidence?
 
andreasz said:
Well... This one actually embraces my theory in both ways... Not exactly my theory but the one I adapted.

Please explain:

There were tons of videos showing a straight horizontal approach whereas your video shows a deep dive. How is that possible?

Plane was not controlled at all? Well... Plane wasn't there at all, which would also explain the unbelievable maneuvre...
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1. Obviously, the plane leveled out at the end of its dive. Most videos show a lot less of its approach due to the angle they have. The video shown above is a head-on angle, so the plane stays in the screen area for much longer.

2. If you think you can't fly a commercial airliner like that, check out these videos which Gumboot provided months ago:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=76327

You're not supposed to fly an airliner like that, for the sake of the comfort of the passengers. But, just because a particular maneuvre is not standard operation doesn't mean that it's unbelievable.
 
Try the second video. That shows an audio comparison and the differences between the videos.

One video shows a steep dive where the other shows a straight and level horizontal approach. There is no way to blame that on the perspective... You can't miss a dive from a horizontal angle, unless the object comes right towards you.

And the plane on the video posted by A-Train definitely IS in a dive. Would it just APPEAR to be in a dive, but actually moving on the same level, we would, if anything, see it move upwards the closer it gets, because the distance gets shorter and therefore the angle steeper.

Please explain that to me. Rationally. Don't you think that I DON'T think that this idea MAY appear crazy to others? Don't you guys think, WHY some guy gets those crazy ideas? Compare the videos for yourself and tell me this is just APPEARING to be this way.

Or, if you want some illustration, watch the 2nd video on the website...
 
andreasz said:
Instead of discussing theories and certain ideas, people are being mocked and all the replies they get on the things they post into this forum are unnecessary comments like 'Do I really need to watch that crap or are the first 5 minutes sufficient?'
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I actually agree with you to some extent. However, most truther posts here are weak and worthy of derision. Sometimes actual substantiative discussion is warranted and the locals sometimes get a little over zealous and "peanut-gallery" the post to the point that we have too much noise and way too little signal.

That being said, I have a general rule of thumb: I will put in roughly equal effort analyzing your "concerns" as you have in expressing them.

I do this for one very simple reason. It takes you 9 seconds to post "LOL DEBUNK THIS VIDEO", and it might take me 4 hours to do so. Then you come along and post a new video. I've been down that road too many times.

People here get sick and tired of being asked to do things and then being ignored by those who asked them. It's a form of argument ad nauseum. Truthers keep making 'challenges' and then ignoring the detailed answers. They keep making more challenges. They are trying to wear people out. They want to keep asking questions and ignoring answers until those answering give up. Then they can declare victory.

This type of truther behavior very quickly spoils otherwise patient people into simply mocking people who make "DEBUNK THIS" posts.

My suggestion to you is create a post that succinctly explains your beliefs with the evidence handy. Show me the picture you are talking about. Annotate it. Show me the frame with the black plane. It's far easier for us to read it at our own pace and digest it. Most importantly, it shows that you care enough to put the time into something meaningful instead of just posting someone elses work. If you care enough to put the time in, I might believe you'll actually read my response if I do the same.
 
andreasz said:
ref: It is probably likely that they saw a plane but I am convinced that there is nobody in New York who actually saw a plane crash into the World Trade Center.
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You need to stop this insulting ignorance. Now.

Got it, chief?

Mark Roberts
New York City
 
Par: Why re-invent the wheel? Check for yourself on the website...

And if you come to the conclusion, that this is all a load of crap, then do so... But I'd like to see, how you do it. I am skeptic myself... I don't believe everything people feed me... I watched these videos and suspected some video editing. So I checked for random versions of the same shot...

Surprisingly, the things I was suspecting to be fraud, were also in those videos. So later on, I checked my tapes at home... I have several recordings... It was all over the news for days...

This actually is, what shocks me the most. It's not that I don't think, this idea MIGHT surprise people or be considered weird.
 
Andreasz:

Welcome to JREF, although you will probably find it a waste of time talking to the live-free-and-die-hard types that always appear to have the most to say on these conspiracy threads!

Anyway, I can certainly say it's no surprise that you are already getting the typical "treatment" from the usual "experts" that I have seen doled out over and over again to anyone who comes here questioning the official "story". When anyone calls this an "educational" forum, the educational bit mostly refers to a demonstration of the art of the cutting remark!

Oh, and one word of warning Andreasz, better watch out for posters who offer no technical content... I could name them.... but I think you will be able to tell who they are. I would put them on "ignore" immediately.

As for this claim that you are "Calling Thousands of New Yorkers Liars", I don't buy that. Those aircraft/missiles were travelling at very high speeds... in the 800 feet per second range. When those video clips are played in real time the aircraft/missile appears literally out of nowhere and are immediately destroyed in a fraction of a second. Only the SLOW MOTION VIDEOS allow one to see what is going on and I agree that there are some strange anomalies in many of those videos.

I have been in NYC many times and I know that standing on a typical street corner in Lower Manhattan you have a pretty restricted view of the sky. Most of the witnesses said something like "I HEARD a roar, or the SOUND of a jet... and then SAW something hit the tower". And the eyewitnesses were NOT consistent in how they described the "aircraft". Someone said it was a "prop" plane and someone said it was a missile. Does this mean one of these "New Yorkers" was lying?
 
Apollo20 said:
Oh, and one word of warning Andreasz, better watch out for posters who offer no technical content... I could name them.... but I think you will be able to tell who they are. I would put them on "ignore" immediately.
Click to expand...

You need to offer technical content in debunking no planers? Give me a break. You didn't offer any technical content in this post either.


Apollo20 said:
As for this claim that you are "Calling Thousands of New Yorkers Liars", I don't buy that. Those aircraft/missiles were travelling at very high speeds... in the 800 feet per second range. When those video clips are played in real time the aircraft/missile appears literally out of nowhere and are immediately destroyed in a fraction of a second. Only the SLOW MOTION VIDEOS allow one to see what is going on and I agree that there are some strange anomalies in many of those videos.
Click to expand...

What do you consider being those anomalies?


Apollo20 said:
I have been in NYC many times and I know that standing on a typical street corner in Lower Manhattan you have a pretty restricted view of the sky. Most of the witnesses said something like "I HEARD a roar, or the SOUND of a jet... and then SAW something hit the tower". And the eyewitnesses were NOT consistent in how they described the "aircraft". Someone said it was a "prop" plane and someone said it was a missile. Does this mean one of these "New Yorkers" was lying?
Click to expand...

You still believe it was AA11 and UA 175?
 
There is absolutely no point in talking to a no planer.

Hello and goodbye Andreasz.
 
Apollo20: Thanks for the welcome. It wasn't my intention to call anybody a liar... I am just saying that people might be willing to see what they are told, if it serves a greater good. I won't go into detail on that, I guess everybody knows what I mean.

Anti-Sophist: I will point something out. If the nose-emerging video doesn't seem interesting to you, the 2nd one might. It's in the first 2 minutes of the video. It's not only one NEW revealing video that sends the government to hell in a second... It's an analysis of the newsmedia coverage.

There's nothing in there that you haven't already seen a thousand times. But there's relations between these things, you might have missed. At least I did.

Give it a shot. It'll take 10 minutes of your time. If it seems like an interesting theory to you, go on and watch the rest. It took me way more than 10 minutes being active on this forum and I am not taking this as a one-way-street of discussion. I am replying to everything that has some sense and no unnecessary cynicism in it.
 
Now Greening is questioning my friends and neighbors? Some of whom have photos and videos of the second plane hitting? Questioning my girlfriend who saw both planes hit from close range?

What the hell is wrong with these people?

What has turned them into such nasty, ignorant, insulting human beings?
 
T.A.M. said:
What a shame Andreaz, why just in the last day or two we lost our biggest proponent of the Beam Weapon theory, ACE Baker (TS1234) from this forum. He was BANNED.
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Pardon the sidetrack, but after having a few, ah, debates with TS over his faked video assertions, I'm curious as to what happened to result in his banning since I apparently missed the event. Did he say something particularly egregious? Too much thread spamming? What was the final straw?


As to Andreaz and the faked video assertions, looks like I might have to break out my standard list of questions/points once again...
 
Apollo20 said:
Andreasz:

Welcome to JREF, although you will probably find it a waste of time talking to the live-free-and-die-hard types that always appear to have the most to say on these conspiracy threads!

Anyway, I can certainly say it's no surprise that you are already getting the typical "treatment" from the usual "experts" that I have seen doled out over and over again to anyone who comes here questioning the official "story". When anyone calls this an "educational" forum, the educational bit mostly refers to a demonstration of the art of the cutting remark!

Oh, and one word of warning Andreasz, better watch out for posters who offer no technical content... I could name them.... but I think you will be able to tell who they are. I would put them on "ignore" immediately.

As for this claim that you are "Calling Thousands of New Yorkers Liars", I don't buy that. Those aircraft/missiles were travelling at very high speeds... in the 800 feet per second range. When those video clips are played in real time the aircraft/missile appears literally out of nowhere and are immediately destroyed in a fraction of a second. Only the SLOW MOTION VIDEOS allow one to see what is going on and I agree that there are some strange anomalies in many of those videos.

I have been in NYC many times and I know that standing on a typical street corner in Lower Manhattan you have a pretty restricted view of the sky. Most of the witnesses said something like "I HEARD a roar, or the SOUND of a jet... and then SAW something hit the tower". And the eyewitnesses were NOT consistent in how they described the "aircraft". Someone said it was a "prop" plane and someone said it was a missile. Does this mean one of these "New Yorkers" was lying?
Click to expand...

Dr Greening,

Forgive my intrusiveness but would you mind clarifying that?
Do you mean that you are considering the idea that a missile hit the WTC, literally?
Or simply using 'missile' as delineation of the flight path?
 
Hyperviolet, I wouldn't expect a straight answer from Dr. Greening, but kudos for trying.
 
That's it, I'm outta this thread. The stupid level has risen evn higher with Greening's added gibberish.
 
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