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9/11 CTs in general

andreasz said:
ref: It is probably likely that they saw a plane but I am convinced that there is nobody in New York who actually saw a plane crash into the World Trade Center.
Call it ridiculous... But considering the fact that there are hundreds of people with cellphones, video cameras and all that equipment in New York, why are there so few authentic(ated) videos? And why did most of them appear after years?

There are several videos from many different angles of people jumping off the WTC, of the towers collapsing... Tons of that... But almost nothing (compared to the amount of other videos) of a plane crashing into there.

Pixel bleed, framerate-conversion problems... There is so much 'wrong' in the newsmedia coverage... The most powerful ones are just tiny little details...

TV reporter: "After making first contact with the Mi-- the plane..."

Watch September clues 6 from the guys livevideo homepage. It's just one week old... The audio analysis is just amazing. This guy really knows what he is doing. And there is really no explanation for that.

Do you guys actually think, everything went the way the media presented it? Planes crashed into the WTC, it collapsed, boo-hoo, patriot act passed rapidly, war in Iraq started...

If anything, this is quite obvious to me.
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so everyone who did is a liar? and you are right to say that is ridiculous

i believe there are over 40 videos of the plane hitting the tower? how many do you need? i never had a video phone in 2001?

the tiny little details you waffle on about cannot stack up against the thousands of new yorkers who actually saw the plane hit

and the thousands around the world who do not rely on CNN who saw it live also

this is why people like you get ridiculed and called names, you are calling every single person who saw that plane a liar

good on you i hope you are proud
 
andreasz said:
ref: It is probably likely that they saw a plane but I am convinced that there is nobody in New York who actually saw a plane crash into the World Trade Center.
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There are people on this forum who saw the planes hit. You are essentially calling them liars. I would dare you to go to NYC and ask around.

Maybe I am burnt out, but why does this seem like Ace's first sock puppet?
 
As I said... Watch the videos... And to anybody, who isn't convinced he/she saw the planes himself, reconsider and cross-check with your tapes at home.

There is now way to deny that. And if there is, tell me, how...
 
andreasz said:
1.) Nobody ever gave any reply on the question, as to how it is possible, that the beams of the WTC were cut in a certain way you're only going to find it, if a building was demolished on purpose. I saw the pictures in the newspaper and there is absoutely no way this could be happened by accident.
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Could you please elaborate on this?

Are you talking about the so-called “angled cut” in the column? (not a beam, BTW)

If you are, then please be aware that this has been thoroughly debunked.

You are right, it didn’t happen by accident, the cut was made on purpose by clean up workers removing the steel with a cutting torch. There are pictures of workers making similar cuts in other columns.
 
andreasz said:
Alt-F4: It's always hard to prove if somebody says he saw something...

But honestly. Anybody who knows just a LITTLE about people, men, mankind, that this eyewitness thing is worthless. I believe that every single american who has devloped some hatred towards whoever it was who teared down the WTC, is willing to eyewitness the situation for the greater good.

I am not saying that you are lying, don't misunderstand me. I am just saying that I personally don't believe any of this after re-watching those videos. And not the ones presented on the internet but the ones I have at home.
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What videos do you have at home that have not been on the internet, Ace?
 
Welcome Andreaz

What a shame Andreaz, why just in the last day or two we lost our biggest proponent of the Beam Weapon theory, ACE Baker (TS1234) from this forum. He was BANNED. Must be just real bad timing that you came here just after he was banned, as he could have added insight into your questions....

Have fun.

TAM;)
 
andreasz said:
Loss Leader:

I am (by now) convinced, that there were never ever any planes on that day.
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Unfortunately for the passengers and their families, this is false.

Your theory just helps to brand all 911 CTs as 'crackpot' theories.
 
Is there anything we can say to convince you that there planes did hit the towers? Anything that would change your mind?
 
I don't now, who Ace is... But it would be pretty stupid of him to come up with some 'old stuff' as am reincarnation...

But if you think I'm a fake of somebody else, check my IP address. I am german, located in germany, got to this forum after watching the Zeitgeist movie...

I don't want to push anybody to call me names or insult me, ban me, whatever...

Just take a look at the videos... I would like to hear some comments.
 
TAM: I came across that beam weapon crap, too... That's what I was in the above referring to as 'crazy'.
 
Alt+F4 said:
You are wrong. I am one of those witnesses who saw with my own eyes the second plane hit the south tower. In the almost six years since then I have NEVER heard a fellow eyewitness say that what they saw was not an airplane.
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andreasz said:
I am not saying that you are lying, don't misunderstand me. I am just saying that I personally don't believe any of this after re-watching those videos. And not the ones presented on the internet but the ones I have at home.
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"I am not saying that you are lying". Actually, that's exactly what you're doing. Alt+F4 has clearly stated that "I am one of those witnesses who saw with my own eyes the second plane hit the south tower". For you to disbelieve that statement is to call Alt+F4 a liar.

Feel free to continue with your delusions, but at least have the guts to actually come out and say what you mean. Don't play these word games. It's disrespectful.
 
andreasz said:
1.) Nobody ever gave any reply on the question, as to how it is possible, that the beams of the WTC were cut in a certain way you're only going to find it, if a building was demolished on purpose. I saw the pictures in the newspaper and there is absoutely no way this could be happened by accident.
Let's just say the steel structure was weakend by the intense heat of the 'jet fuel'. It was not entirely weakened all across the building. So how is it possible that the building collapses along it's own axis, where the steel structure is most powerful? Try to break a steel bar. You might be able to bend it with a lot of power. Put try to break it pushing along the axis of the steel bar. All the theories and explanations I read on '911myths' and 'debunking911.com' and similar pages don't seem to have any structural engineer working on that (yes, I did read who it was from, but he is obviously not considering all the details), regardless of the formulas and drawings on those sites... There is no possible way for the columns and beams to fail simultaneously. And lets say it was just one giant physical coincidence... But twice? No way. I read a lot about the tube in a tube design and all those little details that we have to pay attention to. But the structure along its axis with all the concrete would have probably caused the building to tumble and fall at a certain point. But not for it to collapse into its own footprint. I know it didn't exactly do that... But a collapsing building, ALSO one with a tube in a tube design, needs to have structural damage all over it, not only in the top floors. And even under the weight of the top floors this would have looked differently. At least their would be more left of the steel core itself.

So much about that.
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There were no real beams in a typical floor of WTC1&2. What you're thinking of is the floor trusses. And the floor trusses and the columns did not fail at the same time. Only the columns on a single floor need to fail for global collapse to ensue. Allow me to explain a little more.

The typical CT analogy is to suggest a 4-leg chair in place of the building. If you knock out one of those legs, the "building" tips over. This is probably what you're thinking would happen, however it has two problems: the number of legs (or columns) and the demand-to-capacity ratio of the legs. Unless a chair is built poorly, each individual leg can support many hundreds of pounds.

Let's look at a more appropiate analogy: the 47-leg chair. First thing you need to do, is place a load in the chair such that each leg is loaded to about 25% of the maximum compressive capacity of the chair. Then toe-nail each and every one of the legs down to a fixed base to prevent the chair from turning over. Then grab a sledge hammer and knock out two to five legs and then dent a bunch of others. Next, to simulate the fire weakening the legs, use a hacksaw and start cutting wedges out of the legs. At some point, all of the remaining legs shatter or bend or snap at approximately the same time.

The difference in the two analogies here is stability vs. strength. I know it's difficult for some people to see massive structural shapes loaded to failure, but that's what happened.

By the way, I am a structural engineer.
 
andreasz said:
I don't now, who Ace is... But it would be pretty stupid of him to come up with some 'old stuff' as am reincarnation...

But if you think I'm a fake of somebody else, check my IP address. I am german, located in germany, got to this forum after watching the Zeitgeist movie...

I don't want to push anybody to call me names or insult me, ban me, whatever...

Just take a look at the videos... I would like to hear some comments.
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I gave it a glance which was more than it deserved. The section I look at depended on an unfortunate decision by the CNN editor to cut away to a close up of the fire when the second plane hit.

Other TV stations did not cut away, and the impact was seen full on.

The no-planes nonsense is so much crap that even most 911 CTers reject it. Dylan Avery has outright banned its discussion because he thinks it makes the troofer look like idiots.

Around here, no-planer isn't even worth wasting time on. Gravy puts you right on ignore ifyou are a no-planer. Maybe because you're accusing thousands of citizens of his city of being liars from the comfort of your computer chair.

As for your video, I've already given it more time than it deserves. I'm sick to death of you troothers and your 'latest, greatest' video. Each one of them is supposed to be the unbreakable trooth and in fact is just a different layer of stupid. It reminds me of Bullwinkle always trying to pull a rabbit out of a hat.: "This time for sure!"

You ask us to be objective, but it is obvious how you want us to think about it. I do not wish to waste my time on this video and my stomacah can only take so much crap. So I suggest the following: You present what you consider to be its best points raised in the video and tell us in your own words what it is and why it convinces you. Make certain you are conherent in your presentation.

Otherwise, stop wasting our time with your 'latest greatest' video appeal. I for one am sick of the 'just watch this video...no wait this video! No wait...' Stop wasting our time and get down to brass tacks. I'm fed up with being told that because I don't beleive evil NWO agents edited video on the fly that somehow I am not being objective. Its like being told that I'm not being objective becauseI think gravity will cause an object to fall.

In short, get to the point, and stop trying to get a video to do your work for you.
 
Andreasz,

Bist du verrückt? Warum sagst du, dass "beam weapon" absurd ist, aber keine Flugzeug ist nicht?

It's been a long time since I last spoke German :D
 
andreasz said:
Loss Leader: Didn't read the entire report, but most of it.
A few friends and customers of mine are in structural engineering and architecture. Their claims came up right after 9/11 and I just shook my head in disbelief when I first heard what they have to say. But by now I am starting to reconsider. That's where the ideas come from. It's not out of thin air.
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Well, don't hold back, man! Who are these structural engineering friends and customers of yours? This is huge news; one of the big problems the 9-11 "Truth" movement has had is the lack of structural engineers. Your friends and customers are about to become very popular people.

But this video analysis is pretty new and the guy really makes some good points. And regarding the eye-witnesses who actually saw the planes... After all I have read on this matter, all I have seen and everybody I have talked to, I am (by now) convinced, that there were never ever any planes on that day.
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Be precise now. You don't really mean there were never ever any planes on 9-11. You mean to say that you don't believe that planes hit the towers or the Pentagon, or that strip mine in Somerset County, right?

You should really watch what this guy has to say about the videos. This has ALL been on TV. Please explain to me WHY the CNN banner just HAPPENS to appear right over the nose of the plane.
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Because it just HAPPENS to be placed there? Seriously, this "no planes" stuff is so ridiculous that we tend to ignore it as falling below the Killtown Line. Ooooh, she said "another plane", when she didn't see the first plane? Very suspicious indeed, except that at about 9:03 everybody who had a TV set knew that a plane had hit the North Tower. She had superhuman vision to see the South Tower hit? Why? The towers can be seen from many places in New York and New Jersey; there is nothing really blocking the view from Chelsea.

Funfact: The fox video material must have been sent to CNN in a certain fashion... Why would it be different in zooming position? Why would CNNs banner cover that? And why has CNN deleted this video from the archive?

Seriously... I am not that easily excited myself. I have come across a lot of crap looking for information, so I can understand you guys being tired of the discussion. But this is really something nobody can deny. This has been on 'live' TV. Those images are not manipulated in any way, I have those on tape myself.
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The nose did not emerge on the other side; in all probability it was the landing gear that came out. The "micro-precision match" is simply retarded; the director is looking at a grainy video shot from miles away and yet somehow can tell it matches to a micro level?

And what is your explanation as to why a "graphic computer operator" (sic) (presumably in the television studio) would insert a "graphic plane" in the shot? The guy talks about a 17-second delay, but that's not even close to being right; live TV has a seven second or so delay, and that's only in the aftermath of Janet Jackson's famed nipple shot at the Super Bowl.

I am not sure where the fade to black comes from but there are numerous videos of the second hit that do not fade to black at the crucial moment, and the idea that somebody hit the switch in 0.28 seconds is risible.
 
andreasz said:
Call it ridiculous... But considering the fact that there are hundreds of people with cellphones, video cameras and all that equipment in New York, why are there so few authentic(ated) videos? And why did most of them appear after years?
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Oh, well, obviously the delay was because the New World Order decided to carry out 9/11 first, and then fake the videos afterwards, which took them years. 'Cos they're not just evil, they're also complete frickin' retards.

There are several videos from many different angles of people jumping off the WTC, of the towers collapsing... Tons of that... But almost nothing (compared to the amount of other videos) of a plane crashing into there.
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And isn't it funny how when you see reports of a fire on the news, they show it burning so much more often then they show it catching light?

Deeply suspicious.

And in the recent flooding in Britain ... loads of pictures of towns knee-deep in water --- but not one bit of footage of a river breaking its banks.

I reckon Larry Silverstein must have "pulled" the water.

Pixel bleed, framerate-conversion problems... There is so much 'wrong' in the newsmedia coverage... The most powerful ones are just tiny little details...

TV reporter: "After making first contact with the Mi-- the plane..."
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Ah, well, again there's a perfectly simple explanation. Before the NWO carried out the greatest crime in the history of the USA, they made certain that the press was fully briefed. 'Cos they're retards, remember?

Do you guys actually think, everything went the way the media presented it?
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No, I think that "the media" is composed entirely of traitors complicit in the greatest crime ever committed on American soil, and that any one of them could, if he chose, break the biggest story since the War of Independence, but that none of them do 'cos they're all evil.

What really worries me about this is that my sister is a journalist --- do you think they've gotten to her already?
 
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