• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Ed 737 Max Crashes (was Shutdown caused Boeing crash.)

This is probably am extremely dumb question and I will look like an idiot, but why would a government shutdown stop Boeing staff working on software anyway?
 
cullennz said:
This is probably am extremely dumb question and I will look like an idiot, but why would a government shutdown stop Boeing staff working on software anyway?
Click to expand...
Government shutdown means the FAA couldn't certify the software update, which means that airlines couldn't update their planes without losing FAA certification. That, in turn, probably has serious implications for criminal and civil liability, insurance payouts, operating licenses, etc.
 
theprestige said:
Government shutdown means the FAA couldn't certify the software update, which means that airlines couldn't update their planes without losing FAA certification. That, in turn, probably has serious implications for criminal and civil liability, insurance payouts, operating licenses, etc.
Click to expand...


Aah

The certification

So Boeing were aware of this issue and the delay, yet didn't warn anyone and advise the planes to be grounded
 
Everything can be blamed on Trump. And because Obama made fun of Trump at the correspondents' dinner years ago, inspiring Trump to get revenge, we can blame these problems on Obama. :D
 
Skeptic Ginger said:
OK, say the OP is true, shouldn't Boeing have grounded the planes until the issue was addressed?

Not that I'm unwilling to blame Trump for contributing to the problem.
Click to expand...

I agree with this. The idea that “we would have fixed it if Trump hadn’t...” sounds like buck passing. If Boeing knew about a problem that could result in a fatal air crash they surely bear the responsibility for not issuing a warning.
 
theprestige said:
That makes no sense at all. If the planes weren't fit to fly without the software update, then they should have been grounded long before this crash. If they were fit to fly, then this crash cannot be attributed to the delay in approving the software update.
Click to expand...

[Assuming MCAS was the cause]

Not to mention that, even without the software update, the pilots could have disabled the MCAS system by flicking two switches on the centre console. The problem was, pilots weren't told this... they either weren't even told that MCAS was installed on their aircraft, and even when they were, its not fully described in the aircraft Flight Manual and not at all in the FCOM.

https://www.aviation24.be/manufactu...as-not-in-flight-crew-operations-manual-fcom/
 
Last edited:
Tero said:
Everything can be blamed on Trump. And because Obama made fun of Trump at the correspondents' dinner years ago, inspiring Trump to get revenge, we can blame these problems on Obama. :D
Click to expand...

Clearly this can be traced to Zachary Taylor.
 
smartcooky said:
[Assuming MCAS was the cause]

Not to mention that, even without the software update, the pilots could have disabled the MCAS system by flicking two switches on the centre console. The problem was, pilots weren't told this... they either weren't even told that MCAS was installed on their aircraft, and even when they were, its not fully described in the aircraft Flight Manual and not at all in the FCOM.

https://www.aviation24.be/manufactu...as-not-in-flight-crew-operations-manual-fcom/
Click to expand...

My flight experience is limited to being a passenger and around 300 hrs Microsoft flightsim... so none at all.

Surely it is incumbent upon the pilots to familiarise themselves with their new aircraft and surely that would include automated flight systems?

In my time in the Royal Corps of Transport we couldn't even use a new waggon on the road until we'd completed familiarisation training. I'd hope the standards would be at least as rigorous and, hopefully, a whole lot more.

I'm wrong in imagining that the first time a pilot might find themselves ready to fly an unfamilair plane, it's full of paying passengers. Aren't I?
 
bluesjnr said:
Surely it is incumbent upon the pilots to familiarise themselves with their new aircraft and surely that would include automated flight systems?
Click to expand...

Yeah, but it would be even better if the automated flight systems don't malfunction. They're supposed to make it safer, not less safe.

Why Investigators Fear the Two Boeing 737s Crashed for Similar Reasons

The causes of both crashes are still under investigation. But the data cited by regulators points to preliminary indications that the two planes could have been brought down by the same cause, a malfunctioning automated system intended to keep the jet from stalling.
Click to expand...
Marc Garneau, Canada’s transport minister, said on Wednesday that the satellite-tracking data revealed “vertical variations” in the Ethiopian Airlines flight reminiscent of those seen before the crash of the Lion Air Boeing 737 Max in Indonesia in October.
Click to expand...

Why is the autopilot trying to kill people in the first place, I wonder. Sure, the pilot should know how to turn it off, but it would be nice if didn't suddenly cause the plane to dive steeply when it shouldn't.
 
bluesjnr said:
Surely it is incumbent upon the pilots to familiarise themselves with their new aircraft and surely that would include automated flight systems?
Click to expand...

All well and good... you do that by familiarizing yourself with, among other manuals, the FCOM (Flight Crew Operations Manual).

What do you do if the FCOM makes no mention of things that the aircraft might do without you knowing about it. How are you supposed to know if no-one tells you, and the FCAM doesn't tell you?

Remember, MCAS autonomously takes control and pitches the nose down if it detects that the aircraft is about to stall in certain flight configurations.

Here is a fairly good explanation of what it does and how it works...

https://theaircurrent.com/aviation-...aracteristics-augmentation-system-mcas-jt610/
 
Last edited:
Puppycow said:
Points of similarity:

In both cases the planes were very new, just months after delivery, and although the pilots had thousands of hours of flight time experience on other aircraft, it was a new aircraft to them. About 2 months old in the first case, and 4 months in the second case.
.....
Click to expand...

Pilots complained to Boeing that their training on the new plane was inadequate. A Boeing sales pitch was that pilots wouldn't need training on the new plane because it was just an adaptation of the existing 737.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...e9-90f0-0ccfeec87a61_story.html?noredirect=on
 
smartcooky said:
[Assuming MCAS was the cause]

Not to mention that, even without the software update, the pilots could have disabled the MCAS system by flicking two switches on the centre console. The problem was, pilots weren't told this... they either weren't even told that MCAS was installed on their aircraft, and even when they were, its not fully described in the aircraft Flight Manual and not at all in the FCOM.

https://www.aviation24.be/manufactu...as-not-in-flight-crew-operations-manual-fcom/
Click to expand...

That's pretty important in regards to LionAir. But I thought that after the LionAir crash, they made rather a big deal out of how to override MCAS, so I would have thought the Ethiopia pilots would have known that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom