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Ed 737 Max Crashes (was Shutdown caused Boeing crash.)

dudalb said:
Real problem is the 737 Max is just a crappy plane.

There is old engineering saying "If something looks wrong, it probably is". The 737 Max just plain looks wrong.
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The Boeing X-32 looked wrong to me. I'm not seeing what looks wrong with the 737 Max 8. Anything in particular you had in mind?
 
cullennz said:
I reckon in about 5 years there will be a new "Law", slightly similar to Godwin's involving Trump.

Cullennz's Law - All threads on bad things will inevitably blame Trump for the bad thing, not matter how fragile the reasoning.

................................ Five years timed for when he gets turfed from the presidency


(Put that last sentence in there just to wind people up)
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Why not, they need a replacement for Obama/Clintons.
 
Grounded in the US now also based on Canadian satellite data because there's more evidence the crash is similar to the other crash.
 
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Trump (or Boeing themselves reports are wording it both ways) have decided to ground the 737 Max 8 in the US.
 
As I am booked on one of these planes in early April (Air Canada) I'm happy they grounded them for now. Only 340 or so of them in service and 2 have crashed? Eek.
 
JoeMorgue said:
Trump (or Boeing themselves reports are wording it both ways) have decided to ground the 737 Max 8 in the US.
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Can Boeing ground planes? They don't own the planes, the airlines do. Boeing can probably recommend it, and I doubt anyone would refuse their recommendation, but I would have thought only the FAA or the airlines can do the actual grounding.
 
Ziggurat said:
Can Boeing ground planes? They don't own the planes, the airlines do. Boeing can probably recommend it, and I doubt anyone would refuse their recommendation, but I would have thought only the FAA or the airlines can do the actual grounding.
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I'm hearing it worded as "Boeing officially recommended to the FAA to ground the planes."

Well the FAA is the one technically doing it, as you say I can't imagine a scenario in which a manufacturer saying "You need to ground our planes" would ever be ignored so if the reports are correct their statement certainly mattered.
 
Ziggurat said:
The Boeing X-32 looked wrong to me. I'm not seeing what looks wrong with the 737 Max 8. Anything in particular you had in mind?
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The engines just look too big for the wing span.
That seems to be the problem:Boeing tried to marry large engines to an airframe that cannot handle them.
 
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I'm trying to find a firm source to link to but apparently every country that flies the 737 MAX Model 8 has grounded the planes at this point.
 
For some reference and context the previous "generation/version/whatever" of the 737, the 737 Next Generation (which consisted of 4 variations and sort of a military version) has as of this writing been involved in 15 hull losses with a total of 590 fatalities but that's over a period of almost 60 years
 
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You can update a older plane to take new tech....the C130J is proof of that..the Herky BIrds will probably be flying after 2050...but they sure as hell failed with the 737 Max.
 
dudalb said:
The engines just look too big for the wing span.
That seems to be the problem:Boeing tried to marry large engines to an airframe that cannot handle them.
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I see what you mean by the size of the engines. The amount of engine in front of the wing looks longer than the wings are wide.
 
mgidm86 said:
Wow, the quality threads are piling up here.
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The Fox right-wing claims the government doesn't do anything. Here's a specific example of bodies piling up because the government wasn't allowed to do what it was supposed to.
 
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dudalb said:
I think blaming Trump for the crash is a bit much..and I hate Trump with a passiln...but then some people think Dear Leader should be above all criticism.....
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I didn't mean it literally, as in Trump said "Let's crash a plane." But he clearly has failed and does fail to grasp his fundamental responsibilities as the head of the government, and the consequences have been severe and long-lasting.
 
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Bob001 said:
I didn't mean it literally, as in Trump said "Let's crash a plane." But he clearly has failed and does fail to grasp his fundamental responsibilities as the head of the government, and the consequences have been severe and long-lasting.
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That makes no sense at all. If the planes weren't fit to fly without the software update, then they should have been grounded long before this crash. If they were fit to fly, then this crash cannot be attributed to the delay in approving the software update.

In either case, compare:

"Boeing cannot in good conscience recommend flying these planes without this software update. Therefore, we recommend grounding the fleet until the software gets approved. Unfortunately, due to the government shutdown, this could take a while. #bettersafethansorry"

With:

"Boeing cannot in good conscience recommend flying these planes without this software update. Unfortunately, due to the government shutdown, this could take a while. Therefore, do what you gotta do. #fingerscrossed #makingomelettes #sorrynotsorry"
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Yeah, I don't really see this as being Trump's fault. It's Boeing's responsibility to put out safe products. It sucks that the FAA didn't realize the full extent of the problem, but I put the any blame solely on Boeing.
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It's the Swiss cheese model. When all the holes get aligned at the same time you get a crash.

Boeing sticks engines on plane that are to big.
Creates MCAS to compensate for larger engine putting plane out of balance during power on climb in manual mode.
MCAS function not explained well.
Single AoA sensor fails.
Pilots don't react to unexpected situation in optimal way.
Plane crashes.
Boeing revises MCAS
During testing US Government shuts down impeding change
Second plane crash.
 
theprestige said:
That makes no sense at all. If the planes weren't fit to fly without the software update, then they should have been grounded long before this crash. If they were fit to fly, then this crash cannot be attributed to the delay in approving the software update.

.....
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But Boeing's position was never "the planes aren't fit to fly." It was that the software was an improvement or enhancement. Nevertheless, if the software had been "improved" or "enhanced" earlier, the crash might -- maybe -- not have happened.
 
Bob001 said:
Well, if Boeing was planning essential software revisions that were delayed by the shutdown, that certainly raises some questions, doesn't it? Under what circumstances should the autopilot prevent the pilot from taking control of the plane?
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It may be more complicated than that.

The 737 MAX's Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS), implicated for reacting to faulty angle-of-attack readings in the Lion Air accident,[132] came under renewed scrutiny due to the apparent similarity of the Ethiopian Airlines crash.[11][133] On March 12, Boeing announced that it had been working on a flight control software upgrade for the 737 MAX fleet, partly in response to the Lion Air crash, that includes updates to the MCAS flight control law, pilot displays, operation manuals and crew training. The upgrade is to be deployed in "the coming weeks", and is expected to be made mandatory by April by an FAA airworthiness directive.[134] On March 13, 2019 it emerged that pilots on at least two 2018 flights in the US filed safety concerns after the nose of a 737 MAX tilted down suddenly when they engaged the autopilot.[135] However, MCAS only activates if the autopilot is turned off.[136] Boeing had advised pilots to dis-engage autopilot in nose-down incidents, though MCAS actually initiates nose-down in response to stall incidents.[137] [138]
 
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