Merged 2024 Election Thread

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Come on. You're well aware that there's more to the story of the economy than just oil, coal, and gas permitting. As it stands, there seems to be rather widespread agreement among those who deal with economics that Trump actually fulfilling his promises would lead to rather remarkable Trumpflation.



Just like Republicans have proven that supply side economics works amazingly well! At least for the very rich. Not very well at all for everyone else, though.



You're missing the average rate of income increase in that calculation. Without that, it's a pretty terrible argument, really. All emotion and fallacy. Enough to make a straw to grasp and potentially a place to start making a decent argument, but not enough to survive a critical look on its own. That's without touching the serious problems in what you quoted from that email.



Under Republicans, decisions consistently and overwhelmingly benefit the rich and screw over the rest of us. Under Democrats, the benefits tend to be much more evenly spread out. If you want to seize on some technicality that Republicans don't ONLY serve the interests of Billionaires, okay. That is indeed technically true. It's just pretty much irrelevant.

Either way, my goal deals with working with the truth, rather than just starting with the goal and trying to find some way, any way, to support it. The sheer narrowness and weakness of your arguments strongly suggests that you're engaging in the latter.



Err... as someone who has frequently eaten cereal as part of breakfast, lunch, and dinner (not all in the same day, though) in more recent times, including store brand cereal, I can say that it was definitely by choice here. Cereal can be a nice, super easy to prepare meal or snack for any time of day.

With all that said, there certainly are reasonable concerns that can be raised about a bunch of narrower economy related things. Things really aren't going great for a lot of people and it's fair to say that. Those more narrow problems are very poorly addressed with complaints about the more general economy, though. They're served dramatically worse when oil, coal, and gas permitting are being treated as the only thing that actually matters, so maybe, someday, you could stop trying to pull that BS, ChrisBFRPKY?

Ah, a major effort to distance Biden's economy away from his poor energy policies. An effort to label Biden's inflation as Trump's and an effort to equate increases in cost of living as being offset by wage increases. The only problems with those statements are that they're 100% Democrat BS talking points that have been proven to misrepresent reality. The fun part is, I think you're actually sharp enough to know this.

I think you're also sharp enough to realize that Biden's war on oil during the beginning of his term was a major factor in record high inflation. Biden realized it, that's why he made his tour to the oil rich Nations on his knees begging them to increase production to lower oil costs. That and printing money to give away for Foreign wars added to the tally of record high inflation as well.

The President of the US does not beg, he sets the price by turning on the faucet. You increase energy production at home and drive down the price with that increased production. It is those leaders of oil rich Nations that come with their hat in their hand, not the other way around.

You are right in that our Country needs more than just energy production to flourish. It also needs negotiation of Trade to ensure the US worker has a fair shot in the market. Please feel free to name one Trade policy Biden has negotiated or accomplished. You can't, because he hasn't. Why is that? The Trump era trade tariffs with China are still in place. Hello, I thought this was bad for consumers? Why hasn't Biden done anything with those tariffs? I'll give you a hint, it's because those tariffs bring in too much money to be removed and they do little harm to US consumers regarding purchase of Chinese products. If they raise the price of a toaster, we'll simply shop around and choose another brand or do without. It's not as if China supplies the necessities of life, it would be more accurately described as necessities of convenience.

 

[Foster Zygote]

Do you believe Biden received 81 million votes in 2020?

What you should be asking is if we think Biden won by a margin of 4.45%.

Winning by a 4.45% margin isn't in the least bit remarkable. Not counting the first two elections in which Washington ran unopposed, there have been 39 elections out of the remaining 57 in which the winner won by a margin greater than the 4.45% of the 2020 election.

But I guess asking if people believe that Biden won by a statistically unremarkable margin doesn't have the same artificial emotional impact as saying "81 MILLION???" does. It certainly isn't the first time the common clay of the New West has been manipulated with an argument that amounts to "BIG NUMBER BE UNPOSSIBLE!!!", nor will it be the last.

 

[a_unique_person]

That's it?



Truly catastrophic.







Is this a fact I'm unaware of? That Trump is causing a world-wide recession?



Let's wait and see before we wet our panties about it - like 2016, Trump is a blowhard that actually does very little. He'll stack judge's benches with right-wing judges as Biden has stacked them with lefties.



The Democrats and Republicans are flip sides of the same coin. I despise Trump, but he's not the antichrist.



Anyway, this is the election thread and there's another for predictions about what he's going to do. Right now, he is cruising to victory, and the Dumbocrats just better hope the tide doesn't take Congress and the Senate with him or they'll really have something to cry about.



If we want to cry about the rise of the right, we should be fixing the failure of the left. If the left weren't so ******* useless the question of Trump wouldn't even exist. Look at Jacinda - hero of covid, saving thousands of lives...



But will ultimately cost a greater number of lives by screwing up the country in other ways.



Your boy's doing a pretty good job of handing power back to the crazies as well.

That's the first attacks on democracy itself.

The anti-science attacks on global warming are now entrenched. If you are going to say there was nothing wrong with the West Gate bridge until it actually collapsed you are on a similar line of argument. We have already had sovcits set up a murder suicide trap for cops in the wilds of Queensland.

 

[a_unique_person]

Madness, pressured out by the dickheads in his own party.

Who will they put up now?

Trump will have a field day.

Sanity. The Republicans have doubled down on insanity, the Democrats of chosen rationality. The gerontocracy has been one of the signs of a broken democracy for years now. A healthy Democracy replenishes and stays active and healthy.

A gerontocracy just decays. Look at the Supreme Court judges who refused to retire even when they knew their demise was imminent. They broke it. Senators likewise.

 

[a_unique_person]

Trump's response is that "He goes down as the single worst president by far in the history of our country".

Experts disagree strongly:

He beat Trump in 2020. That is enough of an achievement. For that I will be always grateful.

 

[a_unique_person]

That sound you just heard was an awful lot of reporters and media pundits having simultanous orgasm. Their hard work and perserverance finally paid off.

You seem to think no one seems was worried other than them. There have been numerous people despairing that the choice was Trump/Biden and wondering what the world has come to.

 

[a_unique_person]

Harris won't win the election.



There's no way the USA will elect a woman.

Hilary nearly won. If the Democrats hadn't taken their traditional heartland for granted they could have won. Hillary already came with the Clinton baggage as well. America needed fresh blood, not another Dynasty. Jeb never had a chance.

 

[Aridas]

Ah, a major effort to distance Biden's economy away from his poor energy policies.

*raises an eyebrow*

That you seem to want to limit the economy to ONLY what you claim are poor energy policies is rather telling.

Seriously, your logic seems nonsensical through and through. Once again, actual oil production has soared under Biden. Permitting does seem to have been notably slowed, but any effects on supply and demand there would not be or have been appreciably in evidence when it comes to the effects on the economy currently, contrary to your pretenses.

An effort to label Biden's inflation as Trump's

Where? Trump promising massive tariffs all around, promising to cause massive economic disruptions all over the place with a huge effort to root out all illegal workers, and other similar promises are what's being referred to when it comes to expected Trumpflation.

Of course, perhaps you want to pretend that Trump's disastrous mismanagement of COVID and the resultant massive disruption, damage, and inflation is all Biden's fault, yet again?

and an effort to equate increases in cost of living as being offset by wage increases. The only problems with those statements are that they're 100% Democrat BS talking points that have been proven to misrepresent reality. The fun part is, I think you're actually sharp enough to know this.

The fun part is, I think that you're actually sharp enough to know that you're trying to misrepresent reality and that you're entirely fine with engaging in fallacy to do so. Again, without including the changes in income, only looking at changes in cost of living is a recipe for deceit. It's entirely possible that things actually are getting worse when all things are considered, but if you're going to make an argument, do it honestly. That you consistently have not been doing so strongly suggests that you cannot.

I think you're also sharp enough to realize that Biden's war on oil during the beginning of his term was a major factor in record high inflation. Biden realized it, that's why he made his tour to the oil rich Nations on his knees begging them to increase production to lower oil costs. That and printing money to give away for Foreign wars added to the tally of record high inflation as well.

As ever, you happily ignore a bunch of extremely relevant things that strongly contradict your narrative. Intentionally, of course.

You are right in that our Country needs more than just energy production to flourish. It also needs negotiation of Trade to ensure the US worker has a fair shot in the market. Please feel free to name one Trade policy Biden has negotiated or accomplished.

You mean trade policies like

USTR is implementing the Biden-Harris Administration’s economic vision by negotiating historic trade arrangements with our allies and partners:

U.S.-Taiwan 21st Century Trade Initiative: In June 2023, the United States and Taiwan, under the auspices of the American Institute in Taiwan (AIT) and the Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office in the United States (TECRO), signed the first agreement under the Initiative, which includes high-standard commitments and economically meaningful outcomes in a number of areas. The United States and Taiwan, under the auspices of AIT and TECRO, will continue negotiating a second agreement covering other economically significant areas.



U.S.-Kenya Strategic Trade and Investment Partnership: Since launching negotiations in July 2022, the United States and Kenya are continuing discussions on high-standard commitments in a wide range of areas with a view to increasing investment; promoting sustainable and inclusive economic growth; benefiting workers, consumers, and businesses (including micro-, small, and medium-sized enterprises (MSMEs); and supporting African regional economic integration.



The Indo-Pacific Economic Framework for Prosperity: The United States and our IPEF partners have made considerable and substantial progress on several chapters of the Trade Pillar. USTR is fully committed to continuing this work to advance our shared vision for a high-standard agreement under the Trade Pillar.



Americas Partnership for Economic Prosperity: The United States is working with other founding members to enhance economic cooperation in our hemisphere and drive inclusive, people-centered economic growth. Building on the Leaders’ Summit of the Americas Partnership in November 2023, USTR is working closely with our partners to establish a Council on Trade and Competitiveness, which will meet regularly to implement the guidance with respect to trade matters in the East Room Declaration of the Leaders of the Americas Partnership.

Under Ambassador Tai’s leadership, USTR is delivering important wins for domestic agricultural stakeholders, including farmers, producers, and processors, as U.S. agricultural exports totaled $181 billion in 2023.

You can't, because he hasn't. Why is that?

Mmm. Here, I have some advice for you.

Look beyond what you are being told by the Media and the Party. You can do it.

The Trump era trade tariffs with China are still in place. Hello, I thought this was bad for consumers? Why hasn't Biden done anything with those tariffs? I'll give you a hint, it's because those tariffs bring in too much money to be removed and they do little harm to US consumers regarding purchase of Chinese products. If they raise the price of a toaster, we'll simply shop around and choose another brand or do without. It's not as if China supplies the necessities of life, it would be more accurately described as necessities of convenience.

As opposed to the tariffs remaining because Biden doesn't want to feed the "Weak on China" narrative that Republicans tried really hard to push, despite how little basis it actually had?

More officially, though -

After months of escalation, Trump and Chinese President Xi Jinping came to a truce at the beginning of 2020, signing what’s known as the Phase One agreement. It reduced the rate of some of the tariffs, but left them in place, and China agreed to increase its purchases of US goods and agricultural products – setting an ambitious target of buying $200 billion more than it did before the trade war began.

But it’s becoming clear that China has failed to meet those targets. It’s on track to purchase only 60% of the goods it committed to buy, according to Chad Bown, a senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics who tracks China’s purchases.

Biden suggested recently that’s the reason he’s leaving the tariffs in place, despite pressure from the American business community to remove them as companies struggle with inflation and supply chain disruptions. US importers have paid nearly $123 billion to cover the cost of the China tariffs since 2018, according to US Customs and Border Protection.

“It’s uncertain,” Biden said last week at a news conference when asked if it’s time to begin lifting some of the tariffs.

“I’d like to be able to be in a position where I can say they’re meeting the commitments, or more of their commitments, and be able to lift some of it. But we’re not there yet,” he added.

Both the official and what I suggested both sound like they have dramatically more to do with the state of things than what you just suggested, either way.

Nice to know that you don't actually care about increased prices, though, anytime it doesn't fit your preferred narrative.

 

[Stacyhs]

The ability of some people to gaslight themselves is mind boggling but it explains so much.

 

[zorro99]

Trump is too old to be president

 

[angrysoba]

Biden says he'll speak to the nation "later this week".

Whut??
SRLY?!??!

What a ****** up plan!
It's Sunday afternoon in the USA.
When is he gonna speak - Wednesday? Friday??

Did they make this announcement, that he quits the race, without any planning, any coordination, any idea how to procede? Were they surpsrised? When all the WORLD was expecting,hoping for Biden to drop out???

This announcement should have been pre-written and circulated for comments, and the speech scheduled for "later this week" ought to be ready and be delivered within hours - at most!!
It is difficult to understand why there is not a press conference underway already, as I write!

I guess he's just... Biden his time.

 

[a_unique_person]

Trump is too old to be president

Agree.

 

[Andy_Ross]

Donald posted

Donald J. Trump
@realDonald Trump

Crooked Joe Biden was not fit to run for President, and is certainly not fit to serve And never was! He only attained the position of President by lies, Fake News, and not leaving his Basement. All those around him, including his Doctor and the Media, knew that he wasn't capable of being President, and he wasn't - And now, look what he's done to our Country, with millions of people coming across our Border, totally unchecked and unvetted, many from prisons, mental institutions, and record numbers of terrorists. We will suffer greatly because of his presidency, but we will remedy the damage he has done very quickly. MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN!

 

[Andy_Ross]

Kamala Harris Tweeted

I prosecuted sex predators. Trump is one.
I shut down for-profit scam colleges. He ran one.
I held big banks accountable. He's owned by them.

I'm not just prepared to take on Trump, I'm prepared to beat him.

https://x.com/KamalaHarris/status/1197243216132804608

 

[zorro99]

Donald posted

Doddering old man says what?

 

[arthwollipot]

What negative effects did you see in Australia from Trump 1.0?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convoy_to_Canberra

Now, you might not blame Trump directly for these cookers, but they all had Trump flags flying.

 

[angrysoba]

Kamala Harris Tweeted

I prosecuted sex predators. Trump is one.
I shut down for-profit scam colleges. He ran one.
I held big banks accountable. He's owned by them.

I'm not just prepared to take on Trump, I'm prepared to beat him.

https://x.com/KamalaHarris/status/1197243216132804608

Sounds good to me. How long before the red-pilled moron owner of that site starts commenting his usual drivel in response?

 

[arthwollipot]

1. A violent protest is not a threat to Democracy. If you believe it is, please review the protests outside the White House during Trump's Presidency.

Did any of those break windows, threaten the life of the Vice President, and smear poo on the walls?

3. Trump's first administration was plagued by Liberal insiders that were actively laying mines in his pathway. He has learned from that experience and has now cleared the way of Liberal insiders to avoid a repeat.

You mean there were a few desperate people trying to rein in his most egregious excesses, and now that he's got them out of the way he'll be free to do whatever the hell he wants?

Communication with World leaders is somehow a bad thing? My friend, you are deep in party propaganda, please use some common sense thinking. Conflict resolution begins with communication. If Biden had been able to communicate effectively or at all, the World would be in a much more peaceful place now. Look beyond what you are being told by the Media and the Party. You can do it.

Trump doesn't communicate. Communication implies a two-way conversation. Trump doesn't have that, he dictates. He lectures. He rants. He doesn't listen to anybody. He doesn't care what other people say, he only cares about saying whatever goes through his mind at the time, with no filter.

 

[Aridas]

Trump doesn't communicate. Communication implies a two-way conversation. Trump doesn't have that, he dictates. He lectures. He rants. He doesn't listen to anybody. He doesn't care what other people say, he only cares about saying whatever goes through his mind at the time, with no filter.

Hmm? Trump does communicate, though? He sent that threatening letter to Turkey, for example. Threatened to destroy their economy if they stepped out of line. It got mocked, then, well... they did and he didn't even remotely, of course. The Kurds still suffer because of the many ways that Trump betrayed them to those who sought to commit genocide against them.

Trump also spoke to world leaders en masse! And got ridiculed for his braggadocio.

Trump spoke to Putin a bunch! That he may have acted a bit like a punished dog at Helsinki after one of those conversations and didn't seem much better a lot of the rest of the time is just part of that, right?

Trump also does listen to people sometimes! Sometimes even for the better! Thankfully, or, for example, we'd likely have invaded Venezuela.

 

[Regnad Kcin]

1. A violent protest is not a threat to Democracy. If you believe it is, please review the protests outside the White House during Trump's Presidency. Regarding the most popular President in US History, Mr 81 million votes Biden, has now stepped down as the Democrat party candidate for fear of losing the election to Trump. I rest my case about the 2020 election results.
2. Both candidates are immoral. Both have had women accuse them of sexual misconduct without evidence. Only one has actively worked to subvert Democracy and is continuing to do so even as he's been shown the door. If you'll look at actual policy and policy proposals, you'll find it's simply not Trump.
3. Trump's first administration was plagued by Liberal insiders that were actively laying mines in his pathway. He has learned from that experience and has now cleared the way of Liberal insiders to avoid a repeat. Communication with World leaders is somehow a bad thing? My friend, you are deep in party propaganda, please use some common sense thinking. Conflict resolution begins with communication. If Biden had been able to communicate effectively or at all, the World would be in a much more peaceful place now. Look beyond what you are being told by the Media and the Party. You can do it.

Yes, yes, I’m sure Donald is your boyfriend. Tru Luv 4 Eva.

Seriously, as you’re typing all that out, not even you can keep a straight face, right?