• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Merged 2024 Election Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.
True. Meeting the definition of fascism does, though. Not sure why you're denying that, or doing a "both sides-ism" trying to equate people not knowing what communism means to people pointing out that Drumpf is a fascist.

1,2, 3, 4 & 7 are shared by both sides of the US political divide. That is demonstrably so, since I can't find any detail of the Reuters staff murderers being brough to justice, or Obama/Biden calling off prosecution of Assange. Military spending did not slow under Democrat rule.

5 - sure, but it's not new or exclusive to Trump/MAGA.

6 - not happening.

8 - big deal; USA was founded by people who wanted a theocracy.

9 - yeah, the Democrats really stepped up pressure on corporates.

10 - there's one that might be true!

11 & 12 - nope

13 - I feel the need to LOL at that one. Cronyism? Two words: Hillary Clinton.

14 - nope. Both sides gerrymander.

Fail.
 
They don't have any responsibility to anyone. All they care about is eyes and clicks. That's money. Responsibility went out the window ages ago.

1,2, 3, 4 & 7 are shared by both sides of the US political divide. That is demonstrably so, since I can't find any detail of the Reuters staff murderers being brough to justice, or Obama/Biden calling off prosecution of Assange. Military spending did not slow under Democrat rule.

5 - sure, but it's not new or exclusive to Trump/MAGA.

6 - not happening.

8 - big deal; USA was founded by people who wanted a theocracy.

9 - yeah, the Democrats really stepped up pressure on corporates.

10 - there's one that might be true!

11 & 12 - nope

13 - I feel the need to LOL at that one. Cronyism? Two words: Hillary Clinton.

14 - nope. Both sides gerrymander.

Fail.
Should've stopped reading at the first whataboutism :rolleyes: .
 
1,2, 3, 4 & 7 are shared by both sides of the US political divide. That is demonstrably so, since I can't find any detail of the Reuters staff murderers being brough to justice, or Obama/Biden calling off prosecution of Assange. Military spending did not slow under Democrat rule.

5 - sure, but it's not new or exclusive to Trump/MAGA.

6 - not happening.

8 - big deal; USA was founded by people who wanted a theocracy.

9 - yeah, the Democrats really stepped up pressure on corporates.

10 - there's one that might be true!

11 & 12 - nope

13 - I feel the need to LOL at that one. Cronyism? Two words: Hillary Clinton.

14 - nope. Both sides gerrymander.

Fail.
"Here is a list of the traits that identifies a dog! Now will you admit your labrador is a dog?!"
"A-ha! I see many of these traits also apply to the neighbour's cat! Therefore my labrador is not a dog!"

Stellar logic with you people.
 
Or a man arrogantly raising his fist in triumph while members of his audience bleed and die.
To be more fair to Dump than he deserves (and pardon all the double posts), as I said earlier, you can't judge people for how they act in sudden emergencies like that. Your brain just kind of shuts off. You do weird things, like demanding to be allowed to put your shoes on before being evacuated from a live shooter situation where you are obviously the target. The fist might not have been a political message as much as a simple primal, or toddler-like if you will, anger reaction to the sudden shock, pain, and fear he was probably experiencing.

That said, I totally agreee it was entirely within character for Dump. It's exactly the kind of vile and psychopathic thing he's known for doing.
 

Pretty much my sentiments about the quality of your assessment.

For 1, we've literally got Trump saying that he's a nationalist and his allies pushing christian nationalism. The GOP, in general, has long had issues with nationalism and has been openly embracing nationalism in more recent years.

Democrats? Nothing even remotely close to that. Patriotism is not nationalism, either way, and the two get confused unfortunately easily because of how similar they are.

I suppose that requires understanding nationalism better than the link's decided to describe it, though. For a quick googled definition of nationalism, "identification with one's own nation and support for its interests, especially to the exclusion or detriment of the interests of other nations." That's still not that great a description, but it's overwhelmingly better than the summation at that link.

2. Again, there's no actual honest equation to be had between Republicans and Democrats on this one. Republican administrations actively work to do those things, with the support of Republicans. Democratic Party administrations largely work to do the opposite and are pressured by Democrats to do the opposite. They don't succeed in undoing all the problematic policies, much less immediately, though. Take torture as an easy example. More than 2/3 of Republicans support the use of torture. More than 2/3 of Democrats firmly oppose torture. This has led to Republican administrations making torture part of their usual policy and Democratic Party administrations banning it as part of usual policy. Democrats are far from perfect, of course, but trying to both sides this is utterly inane.

3. It's only when we reach the third one that we finally reach one where the bothsiderism isn't a total farce. It's still a really crappy comparison, though. On the one hand, we have the Democrats pointing to, for example, how Republicans are banning abortion, are working to increase inequality, and have been openly working to undermine democracy. Unification against an enemy! On the other hand, we have Republicans demonizing and fearmongering about various groups as they scapegoat them.

Again, the Republican Party fits 3 pretty much perfectly. The Democratic Party doesn't, but there is similarity that arises for other reasons.

4. This one's actually a bit complicated, on the other hand, and doesn't fit either party well. Republican support of the military is heavily related to the Republican Two Santa Clauses strategy. The Two Santa Clauses strategy is, in fair part, a way to attack Social Security and the like, though, so it does quite resemble the description of emphasizing the military while neglecting the domestic. That's been in play long enough that their propaganda pretenses have metastasized, though. The Republican Party has demonstrated well enough that they view the military as a tool to use to further their goals, either way, and are entirely fine with abandoning the tools when they're done using them. Veterans? Informants in hostile countries that the military made a deal with? Allies like the Kurds? The Republicans have shown that they're happy to betray and abandon them.

The Democratic Party has largely supported the military so the Republican Party doesn't really have grounds to attack them on that, on the other hand. Democratic Party policy largely tries to view our military as people serving the country, though, and goes from there. The Democratic Party is largely fine with the military being used to uphold the better principles that we aspire to, either way.

Supremacy of the military doesn't apply well to either, but the Republican Party's definitely much closer to the warnings about 4.

7. Qualitatively different, again. The Southern Border is just one really easy example of Republicans showily pretending to care about National Security, especially as it ties into 3. Trump is a national security nightmare, though, and like with many things, Republican policy worked to make things worse overall because they wanted the problem so that they could leverage fear to further their election prospects and other goals.

Democrats have been leverage national security fears to some extent, though, yes. Again, though, Trump is a national security nightmare. It would be idiotic to ignore that. A fair bit more could be said further along those lines for both, really, but, yet again, bothsiderism is rather inane here.

5 - Yet you didn't try to include it with the earlier bothsiderisms? Either way, qualitative difference is very much in play here. The Republican Party fits this one very well and the Democratic Party fits it rather poorly.

6. If so, not for lack of effort. Among what they already HAVE done so far, though, is effectively take over the radio, try to create state propaganda under their control, and create soft isolation bubbles for media consumption that have effectively controlled what evidence and information reaches disturbingly large amounts of people. The rise of overt censorship as a tactic on the right is hardly something encouraging for their future efforts, too.

8. The alliance between the so called Religious Right and the Republican Party has been rather open for a long time. The Democratic Party has long been far more in support of the separation of church and state.

Your attempt to hand wave this is inane.

9. Ugh. This whataboutism. It's just so bad. Here, easy tip! That in no way addresses whether the Republican Party's actions match this! As it stands, the Republican Party really, really obviously matches this one.

10. Hey! You admitted to the absurdly obvious! Good for you! You still had to qualify it, though.

11. Again, this just shows how out of touch you are.

12. Again, this just shows how out of touch you are. This one's a bit like the military one, though. Republicans have long relied heavily on "Law and Order" propaganda. This has helped secure the racist vote, given how it was used, and has led to authoritarians gravitating towards the Republican Party. It's Republicans who have been overtly supporting police brutality, not Democrats. Plenty more can be said to back that up, really, but there's not much need. That fits 12 perfectly well.

Like with the military, though, Republican adherence to this isn't about the principle. That is shown perfectly well with their treatment of Trump and many other criminals among them. The old truism about conservatives seeking rules that protect, but do not bind them, while binding and not protecting others describes this phenomena just fine.

Hence, it's a match, but there is room for quibbling on the surface.

13. :rolleyes:

Jared. Ivanka. Lara.

There is indeed something to be said about the Democratic Party and cronyism. That in no way means that the Republican Party doesn't match 13, match it far better, or that the MAGA take over of the Party isn't making it dramatically worse.

To borrow from the link, though - "use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability." That harks back to 12 and pretty well removes that room for quibbling.

14. Honestly, I've become tired of this. Rather than listing off a bunch of things that show just how utterly inane your response is, yet again, I'm just going to point out that your response is inane and be done with it for now.

The Atheist, your assessment is a miserable failure that just seems to illuminate the depths of your blindness, whether it be willful, as it quite seems to be, or otherwise.
 
Last edited:
Stellar logic with you people.

"You people" crap. I love the way Americans automatically assume someone who disagrees with them is "The other".

The thing is, if you'd said "America is becoming a fascist nation" I probably would agree, because as I pointed out, the Democratic Party is precious little better than the Republicans.

It may surprise you to know Biden is a staunch, lifelong christian and I bet he feels he's doing god's work as much as any fundy pastor, and probably a lot more than Trump.
 
We have about four months until the election, which is an eternity. This assassination attempt will fall out of the public consciousness in about two weeks. So much can and will happen between now and election day. Anyone predicting the outcome of the race is a fool.
 
Originally Posted by Stacyhs View Post
If you paid attention instead of getting in a snit per usual, I'm not saying Trump is Hitler. I'm not even saying Trump himself is a true fascist, but he most certainly embraces many fascist ideas and tactics as do his supporters.

Do you ever read your own posts?

"Im not saying Trumo is a fascist, but he's a fascist."

He is defined by his actions.


Let me walk you through this as you seem to need a more simple explanation:

1. "I'm not saying Trump is Hitler."

Trump is NOT Hitler. Clear?

2. " I'm not even saying Trump himself is a true fascist"

A true fascist believes in the fascist political ideology. Trump has no true political ideology, including fascism. His only ideology is "What's in it for me?" He's a conman, a grifter, a sociopath and extreme narcissist who believes in nothing but himself. As he's shown many times, he'll change positions, and even political parties, to fit whatever is advantageous to him at the time. Clear?

3. "but he most certainly embraces many fascist ideas and tactics as do his supporters."

Fascist ideas and tactics that support his own narcissistic, conman, Trump first agenda:

cult of a leader/personality,
blaming 'others', including a specified group, for the nation's problems,
nationalism,
holding rallies to strengthen personal relationship with supporters,
creating recognizable symbols to identify fellow members of the 'in' group.

But those ideas and tactics do NOT make him a fascist. He only uses them to get what he wants for himself: power and money.


If you still cannot understand what I'm saying, then I can't help you because I can't make it any clearer or more simple than that.
 
"You people" crap. I love the way Americans automatically assume someone who disagrees with them is "The other".

Given that you're not an American and have played that up repeatedly...

The thing is, if you'd said "America is becoming a fascist nation" I probably would agree, because as I pointed out, the Democratic Party is precious little better than the Republicans.

:rolleyes:

It may surprise you to know Biden is a staunch, lifelong christian and I bet he feels he's doing god's work as much as any fundy pastor, and probably a lot more than Trump.

Possibly! That you're trying to make hay out of that at all demonstrates how little your opinion is worth here, though. Maybe try understanding the subject in question before spouting off irrelevancies?
 
Last edited:
1,2, 3, 4 & 7 are shared by both sides of the US political divide. That is demonstrably so, since I can't find any detail of the Reuters staff murderers being brough to justice, or Obama/Biden calling off prosecution of Assange. Military spending did not slow under Democrat rule.

5 - sure, but it's not new or exclusive to Trump/MAGA.

6 - not happening.

8 - big deal; USA was founded by people who wanted a theocracy.

9 - yeah, the Democrats really stepped up pressure on corporates.

10 - there's one that might be true!

11 & 12 - nope

13 - I feel the need to LOL at that one. Cronyism? Two words: Hillary Clinton.

14 - nope. Both sides gerrymander.

Fail.

I suggest you look up "Contrarianism".
 
"You people" crap. I love the way Americans automatically assume someone who disagrees with them is "The other".
The thing is, if you'd said "America is becoming a fascist nation" I probably would agree, because as I pointed out, the Democratic Party is precious little better than the Republicans.

It may surprise you to know Biden is a staunch, lifelong christian and I bet he feels he's doing god's work as much as any fundy pastor, and probably a lot more than Trump.

So it's only Americans who use the phrase "you people" when disagreed with?:eye-poppi
 
We have about four months until the election, which is an eternity. This assassination attempt will fall out of the public consciousness in about two weeks.

I don't believe the public will be given that chance - Trump and the Republicans will have the photo of him triumphant front and centre forever.

Trump has no true political ideology, including fascism. His only ideology is "What's in it for me?" He's a conman, a grifter, a sociopath and extreme narcissist who believes in nothing but himself. As he's shown many times, he'll change positions, and even political parties, to fit whatever is advantageous to him at the time.

I agree with 100% of that, so I'll let that end the subject, because it's no more than a side-show, particularly in light of yesterday's action.
 
I don't believe the public will be given that chance - Trump and the Republicans will have the photo of him triumphant front and centre forever.
Oh, it will be in history books. But will it go down in history as poor innocent little Dwump all defiant, or will it be a photo of Führer wannabe Drumpf reaping what he sowed? I'm starting to think it will be the latter, especially when the bullet only graced his ear.
 
My guess is sympathy for Trump will last right up until he gets over the shock of the attack and starts blaming everyone under the sun for conspiring against him.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Back
Top Bottom