Merged 2024 Election Thread

[Stacyhs]

I didn't ignore it, it's just bollocks.

If he'd won a Nobel Prize he'd be on this list: https://theprint.in/science/nobel-l...ti-vaxxers-calls-covid-a-lab-accident/665710/

Your shtick of comparing Trump to Hitler is as stupid as dudalb's promises of civil war.

4 years of Trump didn't destroy anything and 4 more years won't either.

If you paid attention instead of getting in a snit per usual, I'm not saying Trump is Hitler. I'm not even saying Trump himself is a true fascist, but he most certainly embraces many fascist ideas and tactics as do his supporters. What I am doing is comparing the rise of Trumpism to the rise of Nazism. That you can't see what I and many experts and scholars on that subject can see is your own willful ignorance/blindness.

Holocaust scholars Leonard Grob and John K. Roth. Grob is professor emeritus of philosophy at Fairleigh Dickinson University. Roth is the Edward J. Sexton professor emeritus of philosophy at Claremont McKenna College and the founding director of the Center for the Study of the Holocaust, Genocide, and Human Rights (now the Mgrublian Center for Human Rights). Their new book is titled, Warnings: The Holocaust, Ukraine, and Endangered American Democracy.

Roth: In 2017, when Nazi-garbed white supremacists marched in Charlottesville, Virginia, shouting "Jews will not replace us," I thought of rallies in Berlin where "Aryan" German supremacists unfurled banners proclaiming that "Jews are our misfortune."

When I watched Trump's MAGA insurrectionists attack the US capitol and defraud the American people by attempting to overturn a fair and free presidential election, I saw "Christian" crosses, Nazi symbols, and American flag poles turned into weapons to trammel police. I was outraged but not surprised.

[ROTH:]Fascism bundles ideological ingredients such as: authoritarian, antidemocratic, and supremacist nationalism; xenophobic population and immigration policies; favored economic status for a few, suppressed rights for unions and labor; intentional and intensified political divisiveness; weaponizing courts and police to exact retributive punishment of internal enemies; disrespect for truth; political control of media and schools; religious legitimation.

Trump and MAGA Republicanism bundle such elements in 2020s America. Fascism is alive in the United States. So much so, that it is not hyperbole to say that American fascism's face is Donald Trump's. As Charlottesville and the January 6 insurrection testify, American fascism harbors antisemitism, and it can be added that antisemitism in the United States, whenever and wherever it is found, favors fascism.

Again, Trump is not Hitler, but his violent rhetoric echoes Hitler's. When Trump promises to be his voters' retribution, his intention to get revenge is ignored at democracy's peril. Trump said he might terminate the Constitution. He walked back from that, but Americans who care about democracy will take the pronouncement more seriously than the walk-back. Trump's promise that, if elected in 2024, he will concentrate power in the Oval Office and purge the "deep state" should be believed. Hitler made similar promises. He kept them. There's no reason to think that Trump and his followers won't do so if they take power.

Trump's acolytes increasingly depict him in apocalyptic terms: he is "God's chosen one" who will ultimately lead his followers to the ultimate victory, a victory depicted in vindictive and destructive terms. That's Nazi-style rhetoric. Words matter. Words can destroy democracy. Words can kill.

Jason Stanley, a Yale philosopher and author of How Fascism Works, came closest to that conclusion, saying that “you could call legitimately call Trumpism a fascist social and political movement” and that Trump is “using fascist political tactics,” but that Trump isn’t necessarily leading a fascist government.

 

[Tero]

Elsewhere I predicted no 2nd debate.

But how do you sell that?

Trump will, presumably, say loudly and often that he’s up for another debate

Me: It’s not really going to work in favor of Biden the second time. It was not temporary, just the weak voice. He is going to panic again in a 2minute and 1 minute format. So they will just have to take the bad press from canceling. Lesser loss. If there is anyone in charge at all, they will talk him out of this. “Do you want to win in November, Joe? Yes. Then, you cannot do the debate.”

 

[Stacyhs]

Of course you are precisely correct. Americans are too close to this.

Yeah. Living here and seeing what's going on just blinds us. What we really need are people from across the planet to tell us what's happening.

 

[angrysoba]

Elsewhere I predicted no 2nd debate.



Me: It’s not really going to work in favor of Biden the second time. It was not temporary, just the weak voice. He is going to panic again in a 2minute and 1 minute format. So they will just have to take the bad press from canceling. Lesser loss. If there is anyone in charge at all, they will talk him out of this. “Do you want to win in November, Joe? Yes. Then, you cannot do the debate.”

If Biden stays in the race, he will debate. If he doesn’t drop out and decides to skip the debate then it is a sure sign he is impaired. Biden clearly won’t listen to anyone that he should quit the race and so he won’t listen to anyone to skip the debate.

He’s the captain of the ship and nobody tells him he has to avoid the iceberg!

 

[CarbShark]

Donald Trump whisked off stage in Pennsylvania after loud noises rang through the crowd - Los Angeles Times

Former President Donald Trump was whisked off the stage at a rally Saturday in Butler, Penn., after loud noises rang through the crowd.
His motorcade has left the venue.

Trump’s rally in western Pennsylvania, just outside Pittsburgh, comes as the former reality TV star and tabloid hound continues to tease his pick, working to drum up maximum attention and hype.

 

[CarbShark]

Shots fired at Trump rally. Trump injured (minor wound, possibly grazed his ear). Secret Service slowly "rushed" him off the stage.

• Rally was at Butler, PA
• Just after 6 pm (local time)
• MSNBC aired tape with sound (finally) and it was gunfire in my opinion (some media outlets are not confirming that
• At one point you can see a mist of vaporized blood when he is hit
• Would not be surprised if there are injuries in the rather small crowd.
• There are reports that there was a shout of "shooter down" before Trump was extracted
• Witness on MSNBC reports Secret Service sniper fired at someone at a water tower and that there were other injured
• Reports that shooter is dead
• Reports that one spectator is dead and another critically injured
• Only one shooter

 

[Dr.Sid]

We're just getting started.

 

[Aridas]

We're just getting started.

Who's "we" in this case?

Trump's been rather pointedly encouraging violence and making a lot of enemies. Without more information to narrow down who it is here, the potential suspects are quite varied and very much includes both actual patriots and people who want to try to incite the far right into engaging in lots of violence, among many others.

 

[Dr.Sid]

Who's "we" in this case?

Trump's been rather pointedly encouraging violence and making a lot of enemies. Without more information to narrow down who it is here, the potential suspects are quite varied and very much includes both actual patriots and people who want to try to incite the far right into engaging in lots of violence, among many others.

We = the show. Nobody specific.

 

[arthwollipot]

I really should be surprised.

 

[Stacyhs]

There's a thread on the shooting. I suggest you post there.

 

[Orphia Nay]

America is, and already was, ******.

 

[TragicMonkey]

America is, and already was, ******.

If you look at it historically, the aberration was the period of relative calm and reason that we're just now emerging from. Much like a civilization that rose during what turned out to be an ice age and then was surprised when things got hot, it's our assumption of what is baseline normality that is wrong.

I think it was the two world wars that skewed things. Two all-encompassing events of unusual savagery triggered a swing in the opposing direction towards gentility. The pendulum is now swinging back, I hope I happen to die before it passes the center and gets back to the nasty side of things.

 

[The Atheist]

If you paid attention instead of getting in a snit per usual, I'm not saying Trump is Hitler. I'm not even saying Trump himself is a true fascist, but he most certainly embraces many fascist ideas and tactics as do his supporters.

Do you ever read your own posts?

"Im not saying Trumo is a fascist, but he's a fascist."

He is defined by his actions.

 

[The Atheist]

And I'm now very glad I couldn't get a bet on Biden yesterday, because a Trump presidency is now certain.

I look forward to four more years of whining on one side and gold on the other.

 

[zorro99]

And I'm now very glad I couldn't get a bet on Biden yesterday, because a Trump presidency is now certain.

I look forward to four more years of whining on one side and gold on the other.

What makes you think a Trump presidency is now certain?

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Do you ever read your own posts?

"Im not saying Trumo is a fascist, but he's a fascist."

He is defined by his actions.

I think that depends on definitions


Trump is absolutely a eugenist, taught to be one by his father, as is spelled out in his biography.
He's also a racist, as people working with him in his organization, his biographer, and on the people on The Apprentice have said.

Where it breaks down is that Trump isn't interested in anything that doesn't directly benefit himself.
In that way, he is exactly like many top Nazis who where more interested in stealing artsy pieces than conquering European for the Master Race.

 

[The Atheist]

What makes you think a Trump presidency is now certain?

A brave hero* holding his fist up defiantly v an old bloke who struggles to speak coherenetly.

I see no way back for the Democrats now.

*not my take, but that's how it's selling.

In that way, he is exactly like many top Nazis who where more interested in stealing artsy pieces than conquering European for the Master Race.

Which doesn't make him a fascist.

What I like best is the people on this side telling me Trump is a Nazi while the other side screams that Biden's a communist.

From where I sit, they're all nuts.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

Again, depends on your definition.

Trump is right wing and clearly prefers authoritarian ism over democracy.
That makes him a proto-fascist at least

 

[Safe-Keeper]

A brave hero* holding his fist up defiantly v an old bloke who struggles to speak coherenetly.

Yeah, imagine if Drumpf spoke incoherently .

Which doesn't make him a fascist.

In case you're arguing in good faith, that's turee.

True. Meeting the definition of fascism does, though. Not sure why you're denying that, or doing a "both sides-ism" trying to equate people not knowing what communism means to people pointing out that Drumpf is a fascist.