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Merged 2024 Election Thread

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No, I read about Biden's behaviour after the debate and called it strong.
That means you read a comment about X and responded by acting as if it had been about Y. Your false-accusation post had even more layers of dishonesty built in than I even realized at first.
 
Hmmm…. I think I may have to agree with those who say that the GOP will try to gum up the works if Biden even attempts to step down at this point. I would expect to see all kinds of faux-concerned lawsuits and gubernatorial actions, from butter-wouldn’t-melt-in-their-mouths GOP lawyers and judges who were extremely concerned about disenfranchising Democratic primary voters and depriving them of their electoral wishes. Of course this will end up with the Democratic Party then having to limp along with a candidate who they themselves have now declared unfit for office, perhaps even the candidate himself having done so, while only partially removed.

I think at this point, the entire political system is in cognitive decline and they have three of the most appropriate candidates up for chief executive officer.
 
Hmmm…. I think I may have to agree with those who say that the GOP will try to gum up the works if Biden even attempts to step down at this point. I would expect to see all kinds of faux-concerned lawsuits and gubernatorial actions, from butter-wouldn’t-melt-in-their-mouths GOP lawyers and judges who were extremely concerned about disenfranchising Democratic primary voters and depriving them of their electoral wishes. Of course this will end up with the Democratic Party then having to limp along with a candidate who they themselves have now declared unfit for office, perhaps even the candidate himself having done so, while only partially removed.

None of that would or could happen. If the president resigns, the vice president gets sworn in. "GOP lawyers and judges" would have nothing to say or do about it.

Similarly if the President is removed under the 25th Amendment.
 
That letter Biden sent to Congress demanding that they shut up and bow down was thoroughly Trumpical. Read it with Trump's voice in your head and there's practically no difference but grammar; the dishonesty and the "me me me" attitude are exactly identical. The part about the "democratic selection process" by which "the voters have spoken" and picked him "by a wide margin" is the most Trumpical and the most disgusting; not only is it all lies, but he's the guy who made it be exactly the opposite of what he's claiming it was, precisely because he knew nobody wanted him, and he's now trying to use the results of his own selfish scale-thumbing to prove how much everybody loves him. He might as well have been talking about the huge crowd size at some recent event of his, "which the media will never tell you".


This is nonsense. First, it's not a letter to Congress. It's a letter to Democratic members of Congress. (There's a difference). Second, not it's not a "me, me me" letter, it's a "Us, We, Our" letter, and it's in no way a letter Trump could have written (or could even be spoken in Trump's voice). It's respectful of those who disagree with him. It's honest in recognizing they are making criticisms in good faith. When has Trump done any of that. (See below)

And, as far as the democratic process, he's right. There are any number of high ranking qualified democrats who want to be president, are qualified to be president and could have chosen to run for president against Biden, but did not run. Those few who did run failed and dropped out.

I voted for Biden and my vote counts. Those delegates (including mine) are pledged to Biden and the choice whether or not to release them is his and his alone.

If he chooses to drop out of the race, that's his decision and those delegates will mostly go to Harris. If he chooses to run that's also his decision and he will be the nominee.

Read Biden's letter to House Democrats telling them to support him | AP News


Biden letter to congressional Democrats - DocumentCloud
 
SOme people here remnd me of the militants on the left who rfused to support the SPD in Germany....the Main ppposition to Hitler..because they were not far enough to the left for them.
 
SOme people here remind me of the militants on the left who rfused to support the SPD in Germany....the Main ppposition to Hitler..because they were not far enough to the left for them.
 
SOme people here remnd me of the militants on the left who rfused to support the SPD in Germany....the Main ppposition to Hitler..because they were not far enough to the left for them.

Fascinating. I expect we shall hear more of this theory in due course.
 
To poke at some more recent developments -

No additional House Democrats publicly called on President Biden to abandon his reelection campaign after an all-member meeting Tuesday morning, suggesting the ground may be subtly shifting toward acceptance that Biden will remain in the race.


Rep. Jerry Nadler (N.Y.) — who just two days ago privately called for Biden to leave the ticket — said that, while he still has concerns over the president’s candidacy, those are now “beside the point.” “He’s going to be our nominee, and we all have to support him,” Nadler said.

A person familiar with the House Democratic conversation, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to freely discuss internal dynamics, said the mood shifted Monday when more-liberal members of the party, including Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (N.Y.), began saying that Biden is the clear Democratic nominee and that they will work to reelect him.

The chances of a candidate switch just dropped again, I think. There are reasonable concerns, yes, but Biden was and is the clear nominee at present. There are certainly reasonable concerns about option X, too, after all, and Biden's record is good.
 
When in doubt, Godwin!

Sometimes, "Godwinning" is appropriate.
A leading Holocaust historian just seriously compared the US to Nazi Germany

Usually, comparisons between Donald Trump’s America and Nazi Germany come from cranks and internet trolls. But a new essay in the New York Review of Books pointing out “troubling similarities” between the 1930s and today is different: It’s written by Christopher Browning, one of America’s most eminent and well-respected historians of the Holocaust. In it, he warns that democracy here is under serious threat, in the way that German democracy was prior to Hitler’s rise — and really could topple altogether.

Browning, a professor emeritus at the University of North Carolina, specializes in the origins and operation of Nazi genocide. His 1992 book Ordinary Men, a close examination of how an otherwise unremarkable German police battalion evolved into an instrument of mass slaughter, is widely seen as one of the defining works on how typical Germans became complicit in Nazi atrocities.

So when Browning makes comparisons between the rise of Hitler and our current historical period, this isn’t some keyboard warrior spouting off. It is one of the most knowledgeable people on Nazism alive using his expertise to sound the alarm as to what he sees as an existential threat to American democracy.

There are disturbing comparisons between the rise of Trumpism and the Nazis in the 1930's.
 
So now everybody who opposes Trump just gets to hold their breath until September 10, the next debate?:(
 
Sometimes, "Godwinning" is appropriate.

There are disturbing comparisons between the rise of Trumpism and the Nazis in the 1930's.


I'm suffering sever deja vu right now - I was sure we'd done the whole Trump/Hitler thing a while back.

Must be mistaken.

So now everybody who opposes Trump just gets to hold their breath until September 10, the next debate?:(

Sit back and admire the humour of it - Republicans are laughing their tits off, so join in, because there isn't an alternative. The Dems will keep on the "We're fine, Joe's fine" track until he again abjectly fails in a televised debate, then will run around like headless chooks because it's far too late.

Seriously, the Democrats' best hope to win the presidency is Biden croaking and allowing Kamala to get the sympathy vote.
 
Fascinating. I expect we shall hear more of this theory in due course.

The history is not a theory....the KPD,except for the SPD the biggest left wing party in Germany ,which had zero chance of being elected, refused to support the SPD on direct orders from the Comintern...who called the German SOcialist Party (SPD) "social fascist"/
And in 1932 good ole Uncle Joe was calling the shots for the Comintern. and he has a theory that if the Nazis got in, it would just be for a few months, then we would have the glorious Communist revolution thanks to the radicilized masses. Did not work out that way.
 
The history is not a theory....the KPD,except for the SPD the biggest left wing party in Germany ,which had zero chance of being elected, refused to support the SPD on direct orders from the Comintern...who called the German SOcialist Party (SPD) "social fascist"/
And in 1932 good ole Uncle Joe was calling the shots for the Comintern. and he has a theory that if the Nazis got in, it would just be for a few months, then we would have the glorious Communist revolution thanks to the radicilized masses. Did not work out that way.

Dude, I know the history. The theory is how it applies in this case.
 
Always revealing when the fault for the rise of Fascism is put on the opposition not fighting hard enough instead of the supporters supporting too much.
It's like saying " It's the fault of people not telling me hard enough that murder is wrong that I murdered so many people!"
 
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Just to make my avatar relevant once again:

Both Vice President Harris and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton ran ahead of former President Trump in a new survey from a Democratic pollster, while President Biden trailed slightly behind the presumptive Republican presidential nominee.

According to the poll from Bendixen & Amandi Inc., a top Democratic pollster, Harris edged out Trump by 1 point, 42 percent to 41 percent, while 5 percent of voters picked a third-party candidate and 12 percent were undecided.

<snip>

Clinton, who lost to Trump in the 2016 election, polled 2 points ahead of the former president, while 6 percent of votes went to a third-party candidate and 10 percent were undecided, Bendixen & Amandi Inc noted.
 
None of that would or could happen. If the president resigns, the vice president gets sworn in. "GOP lawyers and judges" would have nothing to say or do about it.

Similarly if the President is removed under the 25th Amendment.

Your first paragraph is correct. Your last one is not. Read the text of the 25th to see why.
 
If he chooses to drop out of the race, that's his decision and those delegates will mostly go to Harris. If he chooses to run that's also his decision and he will be the nominee.
Yep. Any serious discussion begins with those two facts. Any discussion that ignores or denies those facts is not serious.

None of that would or could happen. If the president resigns, the vice president gets sworn in. "GOP lawyers and judges" would have nothing to say or do about it.

Similarly if the President is removed under the 25th Amendment.

Your first paragraph is correct. Your last one is not. Read the text of the 25th to see why.


I assume Ziggurat is directing our attention to Section 1 of the 25th amendment, which says
In case of the removal of the President from office or of his death or resignation, the Vice President shall become President.​
 
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