Merged 2024 Election Thread

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Warren finished third in the 2020 Democratic primary and Newsom has a 47% disapproval rating in his own state. I’m not sure where you’re getting the idea that either one of them are popular.
Sanders couldn’t make it out of the Democratic primary. I’m not sure why you think he’s got the juice to win a general election.
Now would be a good time to show any reason why anybody should by the pitifully absurd premise that every single good candidate a party can have will automagically always (be allowed to) win the primaries, which means only one good one can even exist at a time per party, and that their relative positions to each other are set for life and can never ever change, and that success in primaries must always directly correlate with and perfectly accurately predict success in general elections.

...If you could, because that weren't all a pile of corporatist lies that they push to keep the corporatists themselves in power.

ISTR several polls last year which showed Biden was the only Democrat contender who stood any chance of defeating Trump.
It's actually been the exact opposite all along, usually by pretty wide margins.
 
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Accusing me of hyperbolic nonsense when you're trying to claim TRUMP is as bad (or will be worse than) Hitler is really funny.

Do you think people are more likely to vote Biden is the opponent is a demon?

Seriously, you've accused me of saying things I never said several times, and this is yet another false accusation. Go back and read my posts on the similarities between Trump and Hitler and then quote and cite where I've said that "TRUMP is as bad (or will be worse than) Hitler".
What I talked about were their similarities.
In fact, this is what I said:

No, Trump is not Hitler and no one knows if he would become as bad as Hitler. We know what Hitler became because he was given the opportunity to become all he could be. So far, Trump has not been given that opportunity. Do we really want to find out what he can become if elected in Nov.? I know I don't.

I think you're confusing me with stanfr who wrote this:
"Trump is not Hitler--he is potentially worse ..." and whom you quoted here.

I repeat: you failed to disprove a single thing I said and the entirety of your posts was claiming I said something I did not say or irrelevant, silly/sarcastic quips. Surely you can do better. But, so far, I haven't seen it.
 
It's actually been the exact opposite all along, usually by pretty wide margins.
I don't remember any poll which showed that any of the other Democratic contenders would do better against Trump than Biden, let alone by a wide margin. Which candidate was it?
 
Jimmy Carter!

I kid, but a candidate who actually has integrity as he did would be beyond refreshing; it'd be miraculous.
 
Sanders couldn’t make it out of the Democratic primary. I’m not sure why you think he’s got the juice to win a general election.


Bernie could fill Stadiums, and he did more campaigning for HRC than HRC did.

He could have given Trump a run for the money in popular appeal and media attention.

Just because the DNC and Primary organizers thought they knew who Democrats would want doesn't mean they were right. And, of course and by definition. they ignored everyone not voting in their primaries.
Sanders had a really strong start before he got shut down by the DNC.

And just to be clear. HRC didn't win, so it's a bit silly to say Sanders couldn't have won.

Biden is now at the point where HRC was in 2016: designated as the nominee, but with a very good chance to lose against Trump.
It's worth contemplating who could take votes from trump without going full-out Nazi.
 
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That goes to far, the Dems aren't running Trump, that mess, the far worse mess is of the GOP's making, also the Boomers, they're the ones that switched to all primaries which is why the GOP couldn't stop him in 2016. We should let the Parties choose candidates in smoked filled rooms like every other democracy.

This. If you read The Making of the President: 1960 (which followed the JFK campaign, you'll think you're reading about a different country. Primaries were not the be-all and end-all of the process of securing the nomination; they were more or less where you proved to the party bosses that you could actually get folks to vote for you. Once that was established, you went to the convention and made deals. Trump, as an outsider, would have been unlikely to get the support of the bosses.

Its academic at this point because it is too risky to switch now that Biden is running but he shouldn't have run, in 2020, more or less ran saying he was only running once to beat Trump. It wouldn't have been a risk for him to make good on that.

It clearly doesn't have to be someone unquely dynamic, that's silly, unless you think Biden was uniquely dynamic in 2020. But again, you are basically right, its too late. The only way they could do it would be for him to announce at the convention that he has some new health issue that will keep him from running and then nominate someone else or actually have delegates vote on someone. Won't happen but I can dream.

I keep wondering how they could ditch Kamala, and TBH there is no realistic scenario where she bows out along with Joe. We're strapped in, might as well enjoy the ride.
 
The fact that Bernie was who the people actually wanted both of the last couple of times and they only got scared into settling for less because of the party machine's lying fear-smear campaigns against him both times is not Genocide Joe's current problem. The fact that the party machine has also been even more effective at suppressing other Bernie-like individuals nearly out of existence is also not his current problem. Even the fact that things like that most recent video at a concert don't merely show him not dancing, but even actually show him gaping with that vacant where-am-I-what's-happening-is-it-medication-time stare, is part of his current problem but not most of it.

Most of his current problem is simply how he's been handling the actual issues that are part of the job. Even before deciding to be unwaveringly all-in on genocide, his approval was already almost as low as it is now, because he'd already spent most of his Presidency betraying us, particularly on domestic policies. There was no effort at all to keep pandemic-inspired programs that had economically helped people a lot, so people who had been helped out of poverty under Trump were dropped right back into it under Biden. There was no effort at all to pass "Build Back Better" as a complete set including the parts that would actually help ordinary people; instead those parts were only there to be tossed aside so that only the parts that amounted to corporate handouts could be passed. There was no effort at all to do a single solitary thing about health care, other than a few drug prices out of hundreds, which just demonstrated that he knows he could do more of that and simply chooses not to. There was no effort at all to really do anything about student debt, other a few demonstrations of the fact that he knows how easily he could do the whole shebang and simply chooses not to. There was no effort at all to do anything about the housing crisis or greedflation, or even acknowledgement that they exist (in fact there was open mockery of the people most affected by them for having the gall to talk about them). There was no effort at all to do anything about abortion either pre-emptively or afterward. Even outside the purely internal issues, the biggest thing that comes to mind on foreign policy that's more associated with Democrats than Republicans is how he and Congress have been stringing Ukraine along, neither staying out nor giving them enough help to actually win, a policy which serves no possible goal other than to maximize war itself, which is the worst outcome that could be imposed on Ukraine but by some amazing coincidence the most profitable one for certain American corporations that by some amazing coincidence happen to be paying most American politicians. And that's just off the top of my head at this moment, not from keeping a list all along just to make posts like this even longer.

And yes, I know the excuse, if he (or his party) had tried to do positive things, some or all of it could have failed because there are Republicans. But he/they would have at least been seen trying (and the Republicans would have been seen blocking), and that would have not only changed their image for elections coming up soon but also helped to shape the overall conversation to start shifting toward possible success in making real improvements in the future. It's better to try with some chance of failure, or even try and keep failing every time, than to be known for just not even trying.

And the biggest irony, for a guy whose entire pitch is now "at least I'm not Trump" rather than even pretending to have anything positive to offer about himself, is how much like Trump he's been. Trump always favored the megarich over the peasants, and the Senator From MBNA has always favored the megarich over the peasants. Trump was into tariffs on China, and Biden's done tariffs on China. Getting out of Afghanistan was good, but Biden was simply carrying out Trump's decision on that one (and the only difference between them there is that Biden wouldn't have made the same decision independently, so we'd still be in Afghanistan if it had been entirely up to him). Their policies/actions about the border & immigration are functionally the same. Trump would be supplying weapons for Israel's genocide, and Biden won't even consider stopping supplying weapons for Israel's genocide. Trump's servants banned abortion, and Biden isn't even pretending to care at all to do anything other than leaving abortion banned and not even being talked about by the politicians anymore.

It's not even that he's been a complete disaster in every way. He's been appointing judges who, although probably often somewhat conservative, at least aren't absurdly fascist maniacs. He's tuned down the drone strikes. He's mostly not interfered much in the increase of union activity. He's increased pay for Federal employees in a couple of different ways. But even those good points mostly have a "but" attached which I won't even bother to go into, and, even without that, a total overall record of something like 30/70 just doesn't do much to inspire voters.
 
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Bernie is the problem with primaries, sure he did great in the primaries, now way a self described socialist will get elected to the presidency in the US. He's also super old now.
 
Now would be a good time to show any reason why anybody should by the pitifully absurd premise that every single good candidate a party can have will automagically always (be allowed to) win the primaries, which means only one good one can even exist at a time per party, and that their relative positions to each other are set for life and can never ever change, and that success in primaries must always directly correlate with and perfectly accurately predict success in general elections.

...If you could, because that weren't all a pile of corporatist lies that they push to keep the corporatists themselves in power.

Got it, so the guy who couldn’t overcome the machinations of his own party is the best choice to go up against the machinations of the Republicans.
 
Bernie could fill Stadiums, and he did more campaigning for HRC than HRC did.

He could have given Trump a run for the money in popular appeal and media attention.

Just because the DNC and Primary organizers thought they knew who Democrats would want doesn't mean they were right. And, of course and by definition. they ignored everyone not voting in their primaries.
Sanders had a really strong start before he got shut down by the DNC.

And just to be clear. HRC didn't win, so it's a bit silly to say Sanders couldn't have won.

Biden is now at the point where HRC was in 2016: designated as the nominee, but with a very good chance to lose against Trump.
It's worth contemplating who could take votes from trump without going full-out Nazi.

First of all, it’s not silly to think that the guy who couldn’t beat the candidate that Trump beat also couldn’t beat Trump.

Secondly, as I’ve already pointed out, if Sanders couldn’t survive the (alleged) dirty tricks of his own party, I don’t see how he survives the dirty tricks of the Republicans.
 
Bernie is the problem with primaries, sure he did great in the primaries, now way a self described socialist will get elected to the presidency in the US. He's also super old now.

Yeah, this is kind of pointless. Sanders is older than Biden, so it’s not clear why he was brought up in this conversation.
 
First of all, it’s not silly to think that the guy who couldn’t beat the candidate that Trump beat also couldn’t beat Trump.



Secondly, as I’ve already pointed out, if Sanders couldn’t survive the (alleged) dirty tricks of his own party, I don’t see how he survives the dirty tricks of the Republicans.
Perhaps it's some form of subconscious internalisation of Trump's claim that the 2020 elections were rigged because many people seem to have forgotten Biden has already beaten Trump once, even when Trump had the apparent advanatge of being in office.
 
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I have brought up governor's Whitmer and Polis. Sure, Polis is gay but someone that isn't going to vote for a gay is probably already voting for trump. He generally been a good governor and often brought up as a sorta libertarian dem which might help with Reps that don't want to vote for Trump. Whitmer, probably won't get an Rep votes but probably won't loose any dem votes. Worst thing about her is the fairly hard line on Covid Shut downs. Dems probably not getting any votes that that will loose. And neither is a million years old.

But, its too late for that unless Biden really have some significant health issues by the convention.
 
Republicans are not 0-20 against Trump. He's lost primaries, most recently, Wash. DC. to a candidate not even running.

Haley was running. And DC? Seriously? Not only does DC only represent 3 electoral votes, they never go to Republicans anyways. That's like the least significant win you could possibly have.
 
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