Cont: 2024 Election Thread part 3

[Paul2]

I didn't mean that you did for that post. You referred to chatgpt when we were discussing recent voter ID laws in California. It won't cover recent changes in the law. It was not meant as insult, it's just to clarify your information source will not be up to date.

It wasn’t my info source for that post. Could you respond to what I said in my post 1878 without reference to ChatGPT, because ChatGPT is irrelevant to my post 1878?

 

[Aridas]

My original claim that California elections have been made less secure by Democrat Governor Newsom's actions stands as proven fact.

Except for the part where you still haven't demonstrated such. You have cited a thing that happened, yes, but beyond that, you've relied upon poorly argued opinion, not fact, to try to make your case. Newsom signed a bipartisan bill that restricted localities from making up their own rules about who they can prevent from voting. That's a fundamentally a positive thing when it comes to elections, rather than something that made CA's elections less secure. As noted previously, your claim that -

There is no valid argument or valid reason to prohibit Voter ID other than to make elections less secure.

is a falsehood from the start. It's also a misleading statement about what the bill in question actually did, on top of that, but there's no need to belabor that when the claim itself is false. There absolutely are valid arguments and reasons to prohibit additional Voter ID requirements from being tacked on that are much the opposite of making elections less secure - and multiple had just been noted when you tried to claim this falsehood. You've tried to hand wave such away, but what you've offered as justification is nothing more than empty assertion that didn't actually address the points made.

As a person who certainly is interested in election security and election integrity, I certainly don't regard either party as a whole as being perfect. Democrats have indeed had problems. If your intent is simply to say that Democrats are not perfect? As a general principle, that's easily granted. Your chosen attempt to try to demonstrate such is just a failure, though. To poke at the opposite of what I've pointed at for the current Republican Party, a couple decades back, the Republican Party did make a number of good actions on that front, so I'm hardly interesting in demonizing all Republicans.

With that said, the driving forces in play matter. To touch on this just a little, at last check, the prevailing view for a while among both Democratic and Republican strategists has been that making voting harder and adding more hoops disproportionately affects the engagement of groups of legitimate voters that tend to lean Democrat. Hence, Republicans have largely been trying to make a stink to try to make voting harder and adding more hoops and Democrats have largely been resisting various bad faith efforts to gain advantage via underhanded and dishonest means and methods. That's escalated and diversified over time to the point where Big Lie Republicans, for example, have been utterly ridiculous during and since the 2020 elections, and your attempted example can't really help but end up lumped together with all that insanity, because it's fairly certainly caused by such.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

This is funny. You do know that trans-males are women who have through hormonal therapy and surgery have the physical appearance of men and that men who go through the hormonal and surgery to become women are trans-women. I don't notice much hysteria about trans-males in men sports, perhaps they should compete in womens' sports.

As for the 180 degree change. The utter hysteria over the threat of trans people is darkly amusing. The North Carolina law requiring people to use the bathrooms of their birth sex is hilarious. I know a couple of actual trans-men, with beards, hairy chests, very masculine upper body muscle, no doubt women seeing such a person using a womens washroom wouldn't find it even slightly alarming, but a trans-woman using such a washroom is a threat and must be forced to use a mens bathroom. Whatever. (P.S. now men can use womans bathrooms, just claim to be a trans-man.)

I appreciate the correction. I was talking about the hypocrisy of the media bashing people for years for criticizing competitive sports organizations and public facilities for allowing biological men to compete in biological female sports and venues. But the issue isn't about trans people being a "threat". Much of the controversy stems from sports organizations and public venues treating "identity genders" - for lack of better wording as biological genders. We don't live in some fantasy anime universe where people can magically change their chromosomes and DNA to the opposite sex. And we're years into this culture where if someone points out the science of DNA and chromosomes, that person is immediately alienated. Now all of a sudden some of these same peoples agree with the issue.

Trans people are going to find things will get worst for them, has this win will embolden the idiots.

Has for voting for Trump. I guess a lot of people thought that Trump's idiotic behavior in 2020, after the election was not a big deal. I find that disturbing.

Only in-so-much as I'd prefer to see them just get their own sports category, for the most part. I do believe regulation is needed against institutions promoting sex change operations on minors and facilitating in "gender affirmation" without the parent's knowledge. As well as not mixing biological genders in areas of sports competition or otherwise where physiology changes the competitive dynamic.

It's not appropriate that you have kids being indoctrinated into believing they're something other than they were born as and driving them into life-altering decisions before they're mature enough to make decisions on their own. That IMO is the "threat". I don't buy into the nonsense that anyone can declare themselves the opposite sex/gender and magically be that. That only works in fairy tales. BUT as to people making an ADULT decision to amputate their respective "accessories"... and undergo hormone treatment that's none of my concern. Once you turn 18 "you" (I say "you" generally, not as in YOU), you are responsible for your decisions, and if you are certain of your decision at that point and don't expect to have buyers' remorse afterward... then I'm not going to be bothered by it in a normal setting, and I would hope that regulations find a suitable middle ground here.

There is a difference between not buying into some belief that altering the body makes someone's gender, versus someone altering their body and doing so with full confidence knowing the implications on their life style, which this trans' issue tends to skew.

Further evidence that half this country or more are idiots.

Yeah... word on the street is now that the Hispanics, Asians, and African Americans that didn't stay loyal are now misogynist bigots. Keep that up for another four years and don't talk about your policies. Definitely a Z-rank method of getting votes going forward. Make sure you also remind half of the populous the kind of Hitler thumping scumbags they are. Surely there weren't policy decisions involved. Anyone that voted for the orange is clearly not educated enough to understand the hopes and aspirations of the American people....

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Except for the part where you still haven't demonstrated such. You have cited a thing that happened, yes, but beyond that, you've relied upon poorly argued opinion, not fact, to try to make your case. Newsom signed a bipartisan bill that restricted localities from making up their own rules about who they can prevent from voting. That's a fundamentally a positive thing when it comes to elections, rather than something that made CA's elections less secure. As noted previously, your claim that -

is a falsehood from the start. It's also a misleading statement about what the bill in question actually did, on top of that, but there's no need to belabor that when the claim itself is false. There absolutely are valid arguments and reasons to prohibit additional Voter ID requirements from being tacked on that are much the opposite of making elections less secure - and multiple had just been noted when you tried to claim this falsehood. You've tried to hand wave such away, but what you've offered as justification is nothing more than empty assertion that didn't actually address the points made.

As a person who certainly is interested in election security and election integrity, I certainly don't regard either party as a whole as being perfect. Democrats have indeed had problems. If your intent is simply to say that Democrats are not perfect? As a general principle, that's easily granted. Your chosen attempt to try to demonstrate such is just a failure, though. To poke at the opposite of what I've pointed at for the current Republican Party, a couple decades back, the Republican Party did make a number of good actions on that front, so I'm hardly interesting in demonizing all Republicans.

With that said, the driving forces in play matter. To touch on this just a little, at last check, the prevailing view for a while among both Democratic and Republican strategists has been that making voting harder and adding more hoops disproportionately affects the engagement of groups of legitimate voters that tend to lean Democrat. Hence, Republicans have largely been trying to make a stink to try to make voting harder and adding more hoops and Democrats have largely been resisting various bad faith efforts to gain advantage via underhanded and dishonest means and methods. That's escalated and diversified over time to the point where Big Lie Republicans, for example, have been utterly ridiculous during and since the 2020 elections, and your attempted example can't really help but end up lumped together with all that insanity, because it's fairly certainly caused by such.

There is absolutely nothing false or misleading in my statement that a polling place that does not require a voter to produce ID is less secure than a polling place that requires the voter to produce an ID. Election security is not to prevent one party from putting a thumb on the scale, it's to prevent any party from putting a thumb on the scale. This should be a bipartisan goal to secure US elections. I think you will agree that there are dishonest members of all political parties. If the means to cheat exists, there will always be someone taking advantage of it until it no longer exists.

Obtaining an ID in the US is not exactly "adding more hoops" as anyone that's ever purchased a pack of smokes or a bottle of beer can tell you.

 

[Pacal]

I appreciate the correction. I was talking about the hypocrisy of the media bashing people for years for criticizing competitive sports organizations and public facilities for allowing biological men to compete in biological female sports and venues. But the issue isn't about trans people being a "threat". Much of the controversy stems from sports organizations and public venues treating "identity genders" - for lack of better wording as biological genders. We don't live in some fantasy anime universe where people can magically change their chromosomes and DNA to the opposite sex. And we're years into this culture where if someone points out the science of DNA and chromosomes, that person is immediately alienated. Now all of a sudden some of these same peoples agree with the issue.



Only in-so-much as I'd prefer to see them just get their own sports category, for the most part. I do believe regulation is needed against institutions promoting sex change operations on minors and facilitating in "gender affirmation" without the parent's knowledge. As well as not mixing biological genders in areas of sports competition or otherwise where physiology changes the competitive dynamic.

It's not appropriate that you have kids being indoctrinated into believing they're something other than they were born as and driving them into life-altering decisions before they're mature enough to make decisions on their own. That IMO is the "threat". I don't buy into the nonsense that anyone can declare themselves the opposite sex/gender and magically be that. That only works in fairy tales. BUT as to people making an ADULT decision to amputate their respective "accessories"... and undergo hormone treatment that's none of my concern. Once you turn 18 "you" (I say "you" generally, not as in YOU), you are responsible for your decisions, and if you are certain of your decision at that point and don't expect to have buyers' remorse afterward... then I'm not going to be bothered by it in a normal setting, and I would hope that regulations find a suitable middle ground here.

There is a difference between not buying into some belief that altering the body makes someone's gender, versus someone altering their body and doing so with full confidence knowing the implications on their life style, which this trans' issue tends to skew.


Yeah... word on the street is now that the Hispanics, Asians, and African Americans that didn't stay loyal are now misogynist bigots. Keep that up for another four years and don't talk about your policies. Definitely a Z-rank method of getting votes going forward. Make sure you also remind half of the populous the kind of Hitler thumping scumbags they are. Surely there weren't policy decisions involved. Anyone that voted for the orange is clearly not educated enough to understand the hopes and aspirations of the American people....

This comment "It's not appropriate that you have kids being indoctrinated into believing they're something other than they were born as and driving them into life-altering decisions before they're mature enough to make decisions on their own."

Speaking of fantasy the above is beautiful example of fantasy. A species of paranoid fantasy at that.

What do you think about fundamentalist indoctrination of children?

This comment "I don't buy into the nonsense that anyone can declare themselves the opposite sex/gender and magically be that. That only works in fairy tales."

Thanks for the strawman. Also who said anything about magically? I wonder if Caitlyn Jenner thought her transformation was "magical".

Much of the rest of your post is a collection of nonsense, strawmen and outright falsehoods. And like so many you don't get the difference between gender and "sex".

What do you think about Trump's hysterical diatribe about Trans people, including many lies, that Trans people are a recent Leftist invention, it is a "Leftist Conspiracy", and his proposed solution? Trump has found a scapegoat. Trans people can look forward to being treated like dirt.

The Democrats do talk about policies by the way. How much did Trump talk about policies during this election? Less I would argue.

Oh and did you know that there are XY women without drugs or operations? For some reason the Y fails to work. I guess they are now men.

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

Chatgpt tells us that



And you will only be given a provisional ballot in that case, and one's registration for a provisional ballots then has to be verified before the vote is counted.

I think it was this one Paul. The SAVE system does not have records of US citizens nor of anyone that may have entered the US illegally.

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/25/nx-s1-5156112/noncitizen-voting-election-lawsuits-trump-stephen-miller-save

"SAVE does not include records for American citizens born in the U.S. or people who entered the country illegally and have remained off the radar of federal officials. Not all of the data is necessarily up to date. Searches cost $1.50 per query, and agencies can only search for people one at a time."

This also brings up the question why was the Biden Admin challenging in court the removal of non-citizens from the lists of registered voters in Virginia? These people were registered to vote but were not US citizens. Seems as though everyone should agree with their removal from the voter rolls, yet that was not the case.

Supreme Court allows Virginia to remove suspected non-citizens from voter rolls

The Supreme Court on Wednesday temporarily blocked an order by a federal judge that would have required Virginia to return more than 1,600 people to the voter rolls. U.S. District […]

www.scotusblog.com

 

[ChrisBFRPKY]

LOL, I think there's hope for *all* of us--I'm the eternal optimist. I even think there's hope for Donald Trump. One night, as he is ranting in all CAPS about Haitians and Mexicans attempting to break into the White House to eat his nonexistent dogs, some vein or capillary will burst in his brain and he will suddenly have a coming-to-Jesus moment, hold a press conference to announce that he recognizes his illness and has allowed Dr. Phil to provide him with free intensive therapy. JD Vance will then take over and have an immediate coming-out party to announce his new super-woke agenda for the planet. I mean--it could happen! I won't hold my breath though, I'll keep up the vigilant prep to ward off the coming evil and darkness.

Everything will be alright. I was not thrilled when Biden won in 2020 yet the US is still here even if a little worse for wear but still here nonetheless. There's a good chance Trump won't end the World or the US. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for doomsayers predictions to come true. They didn't last time and they won't this time either.

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Speaking of fantasy the above is beautiful example of fantasy. A species of paranoid fantasy at that.

Like I said before, there remains a culture of people that think this is an anime world where you can identify as whatever you want, rather than going by the science. If you want to believe in that sort of thing, then be my guest and move on. There are genetic disorders that can cause people to have both features of male and female, but that's about the only thing

What do you think about fundamentalist indoctrination of children?

This comment "I don't buy into the nonsense that anyone can declare themselves the opposite sex/gender and magically be that. That only works in fairy tales."

Thanks for the strawman. Also who said anything about magically? I wonder if Caitlyn Jenner thought her transformation was "magical".

Much of the rest of your post is a collection of nonsense, strawmen and outright falsehoods. And like so many you don't get the difference between gender and "sex".

Everything I pointed out was commentary on you saying "As for the 180 degree change. The utter hysteria over the threat of trans people is darkly amusing. The North Carolina law requiring people to use the bathrooms of their birth sex is hilarious."

At this point it's debatable whether this conversation is even worth putting in the effort. Your argument obviously doesn't care about the issue of biological males skewing the results in women's sports.... It obviously doesn't care about women feeling uncomfortable having biological males watching them dress in locker rooms... It obviously doesn't really consider the ramifications of schools thinking they know better than parents in pushing gender affirmation and sex change procedures withouth notifying them or gaining consent. Do you even realize you're calling that "hysteria"? Or is it that you would rather just call people articulating this issue hysterical and not bother with the minutia? The latter is nothing more than an escape from reality... but if that's how you want to roll then I won't devote additional time trying to convince you to change your thinking if you don't want to hear it.

You call it a strawman argument. I call it giving you context to my position so you know I'm not simply saying "transvpeople bad".

What do you think about Trump's hysterical diatribe about Trans people, including many lies, that Trans people are a recent Leftist invention, it is a "Leftist Conspiracy", and his proposed solution? Trump has found a scapegoat. Trans people can look forward to being treated like dirt.

The Democrats do talk about policies by the way. How much did Trump talk about policies during this election? Less I would argue.

Oh and did you know that there are XY women without drugs or operations? For some reason the Y fails to work. I guess they are now men.

As for this bit. If you listened to Trumps' remarks, you'd find that he talks about most of the same issues about biological men in women's sports, and pushing minors to undergo hormone treatments and sex transitions - as I mentioned already - without parental consent. Among other things. But to be fair to you, it would be helpful if you specified what comments exemplify your position, because if it's something significant maybe we'd find common ground.

"The Democrats do talk about policies by the way. How much did Trump talk about policies during this election? Less I would argue."
Have you actually listened to the interviews that Harris participated in?

Oh and did you know that there are XY women without drugs or operations? For some reason the Y fails to work. I guess they are now men.

We call that a genetic disorder. Sometimes people are born with those. Completely fine, but that's a different issue than pushing these woke misogynistic policies that force women to participate in competitive sports with biological men, or pushing this sex change stuff on elementary school kids without their parent's knowledge... or as happened in one case, sending child services out to remove parent's custody for not agreeing to gender affirming care when it was brought to their attention. It's pretty easy to dismiss things when it doesn't affect you personally... that's a given.

You're basically arguing that trans people are going to be treated like dirt on an oversimplified point. Nuance be damned.

 

[3point14]

There is absolutely nothing false or misleading in my statement that a polling place that does not require a voter to produce ID is less secure than a polling place that requires the voter to produce an ID.

Yeah there is. An election is less secure if people entitled to vote cannot. If, in balance, such a law prevents many more legitimate voters from being heard than it does illegitimate voters from casting a ballot, the result of that poll is less secure.

 

[3point14]

Everything will be alright. I was not thrilled when Biden won in 2020 yet the US is still here even if a little worse for wear but still here nonetheless. There's a good chance Trump won't end the World or the US. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for doomsayers predictions to come true. They didn't last time and they won't this time either.

Wait for the environmental fallout. But I suspect you won't care. That's okay, I don't blame you. Your media, those upon whom you rely to be informed, are pretty much uniformly crap.

Ours are too, just for balance.

 

[Dr.Sid]

As European, personal ID seems like necessity for many reasons, but especially for any election. Also I'm quite sure it can be fixed inside one election term. I had to change my personal ID to new format 3 times during my life. It's not a hard thing for a country to do.

 

[bruto]

You do need ID to register to vote. When you vote, whether in person or by mail, your vote is recorded against a list of registered voters. At least here in Vermont, mail and drop ballots are validated only when enclosed in a dedicated envelope signed by the voter. Perhaps my rural life blinds me to reality, but I still do not quite understand the fuss about voter ID, unless there is evidence that people are stealing the votes of others. If that is the case, we should have a significant body of evidence in the form of protests from voters who have been robbed of their identity. Vote stealers of this sort would have to possess the list of registered voters (easy enough) and then either determine who on that list will not vote, or buy the vote from those who might, or predict when they will vote and scoop them. Is there evidence that this is happening? Of course in any large district there will be a few voters who have died before they are stricken from the rolls. Dead voters have been a source for political cartoons and accusations since time immemorial, but is there evidence this is an ongoing problem?

Of course, as a country guy, I've never voted in a place where at least one poll worker is unlikely to know who you are, but I still wonder if this fuss is a solution wishing for a problem.

 

[stanfr]

You do need ID to register to vote. When you vote, whether in person or by mail, your vote is recorded against a list of registered voters. At least here in Vermont, mail and drop ballots are validated only when enclosed in a dedicated envelope signed by the voter. Perhaps my rural life blinds me to reality, but I still do not quite understand the fuss about voter ID, unless there is evidence that people are stealing the votes of others. If that is the case, we should have a significant body of evidence in the form of protests from voters who have been robbed of their identity. Vote stealers of this sort would have to possess the list of registered voters (easy enough) and then either determine who on that list will not vote, or buy the vote from those who might, or predict when they will vote and scoop them. Is there evidence that this is happening? Of course in any large district there will be a few voters who have died before they are stricken from the rolls. Dead voters have been a source for political cartoons and accusations since time immemorial, but is there evidence this is an ongoing problem?

Of course, as a country guy, I've never voted in a place where at least one poll worker is unlikely to know who you are, but I still wonder if this fuss is a solution wishing for a problem.

Ya, that's it in a nutshell. As I pointed out to Chris, ive voted in 6 states over decades and never once had to present an ID to vote. It's faux outrage.

 

[Paul2]

I think it was this one Paul. The SAVE system does not have records of US citizens nor of anyone that may have entered the US illegally.

https://www.npr.org/2024/10/25/nx-s1-5156112/noncitizen-voting-election-lawsuits-trump-stephen-miller-save

"SAVE does not include records for American citizens born in the U.S. or people who entered the country illegally and have remained off the radar of federal officials. Not all of the data is necessarily up to date. Searches cost $1.50 per query, and agencies can only search for people one at a time."

This also brings up the question why was the Biden Admin challenging in court the removal of non-citizens from the lists of registered voters in Virginia? These people were registered to vote but were not US citizens. Seems as though everyone should agree with their removal from the voter rolls, yet that was not the case.

Supreme Court allows Virginia to remove suspected non-citizens from voter rolls

The Supreme Court on Wednesday temporarily blocked an order by a federal judge that would have required Virginia to return more than 1,600 people to the voter rolls. U.S. District […]

www.scotusblog.com

I'm in favor of strengthening SAVE.

Can we take a single scenario and get to the end of it? For example, let's take someone in California who entered the U.S. illegally:

• They got an AB60 driver's license.
• They were not allowed to register to vote at the time because the computer system doesn't allow for that, that option is greyed out for AB60 licenses.
• They then go to a polling place on election day and present their driver's license.
• They do not appear on the voter rolls, but they have ID.
• So they are given a provisional ballot and they vote that ballot. When the election officials try to validate that provisional ballot, they see that the person never registered to vote.
• Perhaps according to the specific locale, maybe they offer the person the opportunity to register to vote, but the AB60 license is insufficient.
• So they can't register, so the provisional ballot is thrown out.

 

[Andy_Ross]

What? no cabinet post for Kid Rock or Hulk Hogan?

Not even RFK.

There will be some disappointed MAGAs

 

[TragicMonkey]

What? no cabinet post for Kid Rock or Hulk Hogan?

Not even RFK.

There will be some disappointed MAGAs

Nah, they're for the Supreme Court!

 

[dudalb]

He just picked a freaking Fox News host for Defense.
I bet the professional military is thrilled with that.
Hism ain mission seems to be to end DEI and Inclusiion in the US Military. I guess bringing back a segreated Military is next.
He also appointed that nutbase Govenor of South Dakota to be Homeland defense secratary for which she is totally unqualified.
I guess loyalty to Trump is the only thing that matters.
He just put the defense of hte United States in the hands of amateurs.

 

[dasmiller]

He We just put the defense of the United States in the hands of amateurs.

FTFY

 

[dudalb]

FTFY

And we will pay the price when the body bags start coming home..as they will.

 

[Stacyhs]

The thing is as a rule, I never make false statements. As a Trump voting Republican member of the forum, I fully expect anything I post to be placed under a microscope.

You have posted false or misleading information on several occasions. That is the reason anything you post is placed under a microscope.

Undocumented Immigrants in California have been able to obtain a Driver's License for some years now. It's called an AB 60 license. This license number can be used to "illegally" register to vote

This is a perfect example of a false claim. As has been quoted and cited for you already, an AB 60 license cannot be used to register to vote. Can someone attempt to use it to vote illegally? Sure. Just like a 16-year old can attempt to use a fake ID to buy alcohol. But also as mentioned, safeguards are in place to catch those.

Indeed some undocumented people were able to vote in the 2018 Federal midterm elections when California "accidentally" registered them automatically thru their "Motor Voter" program which automatically registers individuals to vote when they receive a driver's license. So it's not like its never happened before.

First of all, no undocumented people were registered and none voted through the Motor Voter program:
“Six California residents who were erroneously added onto the voter rolls voted in last year’s midterms, the Secretary of State’s Office confirmed Friday afternoon following a months-long investigation,” reports Bryan Anderson of the Sacramento Bee.

According to Secretary of State Alex Padilla, the six were “inadvertently registered” through the DMV motor voter program due to “DMV errors,” and “none of the people were undocumented immigrants applying for AB 60 licenses.” None was guilty of “fraudulently voting or attempting to vote.” And DMV Communications Deputy Director Anita Gore is on record that “conditions that led to the problems have been addressed.”


Your use of quotes around "accidentally" is noted and recognized for what it is: implying CA registered to vote people who were not eligible to do so on purpose.

Indeed to further that sort of thing, you'd want to make showing Voter ID at the polls a thing of the past. And that's exactly what Newsom did by passing a new law to not require Voter ID in California. It encourages those not legally eligible to vote, to register and do just that.|

Yet again, you totally ignore the quoted and cited evidence already presented that Newsom passed NO such law. But on the slim chance you might actually read and absorb the facts:

"The bill was drafted in response to Huntington Beach, California, passing a measure that would supersede California state law and require voters to present their ID at the city’s polls.

By state law, however, California voters need to show ID to polling place workers only if they are voting for the first time after registering to vote by mail and did not provide a valid form of ID on their registration form, a California secretary of state spokesperson said in an email.

S.B. 1174 would block Huntington Beach’s voter ID requirement, which is to take effect in 2026."

As usual, there are forum members splitting hairs of every hypothetical they can make from my factual post, yet none of those frivolous attempts hold water. Some claim you must show ID for your first vote, nope that was only if you did not provide something like a Driver's License number during your voter registration, (a license number undocumented immigrants HAVE) and that was before Newsom's new law about ditching the Voter ID requirements at that.

You must show ID when you REGISTER to vote

Now with the new law in place, you cannot be forced by anyone to provide an ID when voting in California for any reason (insert lame reason here). Everyone knows why, regardless of the denial. The new California law made US elections less secure. This was done by Gov Newsom a Democrat.

It's the epitome of dishonesty to claim a law that prohibits Voter ID in California, does not. I realize the MO of many that have grown comfortable with others accepting their nonsensical ramblings of opinion as fact, but try not to forget where you are. There may still be a few genuine skeptics around.

I appreciate the correction. I was talking about the hypocrisy of the media bashing people for years for criticizing competitive sports organizations and public facilities for allowing biological men to compete in biological female sports and venues. But the issue isn't about trans people being a "threat". Much of the controversy stems from sports organizations and public venues treating "identity genders" - for lack of better wording as biological genders. We don't live in some fantasy anime universe where people can magically change their chromosomes and DNA to the opposite sex. And we're years into this culture where if someone points out the science of DNA and chromosomes, that person is immediately alienated. Now all of a sudden some of these same peoples agree with the issue.



Only in-so-much as I'd prefer to see them just get their own sports category, for the most part. I do believe regulation is needed against institutions promoting sex change operations on minors and facilitating in "gender affirmation" without the parent's knowledge. As well as not mixing biological genders in areas of sports competition or otherwise where physiology changes the competitive dynamic.

It's not appropriate that you have kids being indoctrinated into believing they're something other than they were born as and driving them into life-altering decisions before they're mature enough to make decisions on their own. That IMO is the "threat". I don't buy into the nonsense that anyone can declare themselves the opposite sex/gender and magically be that. That only works in fairy tales. BUT as to people making an ADULT decision to amputate their respective "accessories"... and undergo hormone treatment that's none of my concern. Once you turn 18 "you" (I say "you" generally, not as in YOU), you are responsible for your decisions, and if you are certain of your decision at that point and don't expect to have buyers' remorse afterward... then I'm not going to be bothered by it in a normal setting, and I would hope that regulations find a suitable middle ground here.

There is a difference between not buying into some belief that altering the body makes someone's gender, versus someone altering their body and doing so with full confidence knowing the implications on their life style, which this trans' issue tends to skew.

That is a load of nonsense as you're repeating false and ignorant claims. NO ONE is "indoctrinating" children "into believing they're something other than they were born as and driving them into life-altering decisions before they're mature enough to make decisions on their own." Are you seriously claiming that teachers and parents are convincing children that they aren't the gender they think they are? They're deliberately convincing children who are perfectly happy being the sex they were assigned at birth that they are the opposite sex and should have surgery?

Yeah... word on the street is now that the Hispanics, Asians, and African Americans that didn't stay loyal are now misogynist bigots. Keep that up for another four years and don't talk about your policies. Definitely a Z-rank method of getting votes going forward. Make sure you also remind half of the populous the kind of Hitler thumping scumbags they are. Surely there weren't policy decisions involved. Anyone that voted for the orange is clearly not educated enough to understand the hopes and aspirations of the American people....

Hispanics, Asians, and African Americans can be just as stupid as Caucasians. Stupidity knows no race.

Just because you can't see the clear connections between Trump and fascist leaders like Mussolini and Hitler doesn't mean historians and anyone who knows history can't see them. And some just refuse to learn from it. His rhetoric is right out of the fascist handbook. None is so blind as he who refuses to see.

"There are clear parallels between the erosion of democracy currently being witnessed today and the disastrous takeover of power by the Fascists and the Nazis in the 1930s, observes historian at the University of Oslo."
"Economic uncertainty, migration, ethnic nationalism and the narrative of a strong leader. These are all key words that might describe several European countries today, but which also define the interwar years – a period during which democratic countries took an authoritarian turn which eventually ended in war."
Trump's rhetoric on
Economic uncertainty: Check: “This country will end up in a depression if she becomes president. Like 1929.”
“If they get in, your energy costs are going to through the roof — they are going through the roof, OK? You won’t have a farm very long, I will tell you that.”
“Bacon is up five times.” "
“Looking at the prices here, things are way too expensive and they’re way too expensive because of Kamala Harris’s policies.”

Migration. Check: “Kamala [Harris] has imported an army of illegal alien gang members and migrant criminals from the dungeons of the third world … from prisons and jails and insane asylums and mental institutions, and she has had them resettled beautifully into your community to prey upon innocent American citizens." And so many, many more ugly, racist comments.

Ethnic nationalism. Check: “You know, now a murderer, I believe this, it’s in their genes," Trump said this month on the Hugh Hewitt radio show, amid one rant against immigrants, by far the most popular target of hate for his fans. “And we got a lot of bad genes in our country right now.”
“They let — I think the real number is 15, 16 million people into our country. When they do that, we got a lot of work to do. They’re poisoning the blood of our country,” Trump told the crowd at a rally in New Hampshire. “That’s what they’ve done. They poison mental institutions and prisons all over the world, not just in South America, not just to three or four countries that we think about, but all over the world. They’re coming into our country from Africa, from Asia, all over the world.”
"Our country is being lost. We’re a failing nation.”

Narrative of a strong leader. Check: “I alone can fix it.” "“They say [Orban] is a strongman. Sometimes you need a strongman.”