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Cont: 2024 Election Thread part 3

ChrisBFRPKY said:
I have no time for nonsense. Voter ID is banned in California. Case closed. Feel free to gaslight each other with lies and alternate versions of reality but the fact is by law no ID is required to vote in California. An opinion or political posturing does not change fact or law. Stick to the facts, I do.
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An ID *is* required to have your vote count. If you walk into a polling place in California with no ID and claim you live on 1234 MyStreet, Anytown, USA, whether your name shows up at that address on the voter roll or not, you will be given a provisional ballot that you can mark your vote on and submit, but there are procedures in place to catch it and it won't be included in the vote count.
 
stanfr said:
By law you must show a state drivers license, state ID, or SS# to register to vote. If you are not registered, you can't vote. So your statement is false.
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The thing is as a rule, I never make false statements. As a Trump voting Republican member of the forum, I fully expect anything I post to be placed under a microscope. Undocumented Immigrants in California have been able to obtain a Driver's License for some years now. It's called an AB 60 license. This license number can be used to "illegally" register to vote. Indeed some undocumented people were able to vote in the 2018 Federal midterm elections when California "accidentally" registered them automatically thru their "Motor Voter" program which automatically registers individuals to vote when they receive a driver's license. So it's not like its never happened before. Indeed to further that sort of thing, you'd want to make showing Voter ID at the polls a thing of the past. And that's exactly what Newsom did by passing a new law to not require Voter ID in California. It encourages those not legally eligible to vote, to register and do just that.

As usual, there are forum members splitting hairs of every hypothetical they can make from my factual post, yet none of those frivolous attempts hold water. Some claim you must show ID for your first vote, nope that was only if you did not provide something like a Driver's License number during your voter registration, (a license number undocumented immigrants HAVE) and that was before Newsom's new law about ditching the Voter ID requirements at that. Now with the new law in place, you cannot be forced by anyone to provide an ID when voting in California for any reason (insert lame reason here). Everyone knows why, regardless of the denial. The new California law made US elections less secure. This was done by Gov Newsom a Democrat.

It's the epitome of dishonesty to claim a law that prohibits Voter ID in California, does not. I realize the MO of many that have grown comfortable with others accepting their nonsensical ramblings of opinion as fact, but try not to forget where you are. There may still be a few genuine skeptics around.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
The thing is as a rule, I never make false statements. As a Trump voting Republican member of the forum, I fully expect anything I post to be placed under a microscope. Undocumented Immigrants in California have been able to obtain a Driver's License for some years now. It's called an AB 60 license. This license number can be used to "illegally" register to vote. Indeed some undocumented people were able to vote in the 2018 Federal midterm elections when California "accidentally" registered them automatically thru their "Motor Voter" program which automatically registers individuals to vote when they receive a driver's license. So it's not like its never happened before. Indeed to further that sort of thing, you'd want to make showing Voter ID at the polls a thing of the past. And that's exactly what Newsom did by passing a new law to not require Voter ID in California. It encourages those not legally eligible to vote, to register and do just that.
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Chatgpt tells us that
California uses federal databases like the Department of Homeland Security’s Systematic Alien Verification for Entitlements (SAVE) database to cross-check voter registration information against federal immigration records.
Click to expand...

ChrisBFRPKY said:
As usual, there are forum members splitting hairs of every hypothetical they can make from my factual post, yet none of those frivolous attempts hold water. Some claim you must show ID for your first vote, nope that was only if you did not provide something like a Driver's License number during your voter registration, (a license number undocumented immigrants HAVE) and that was before Newsom's new law about ditching the Voter ID requirements at that. Now with the new law in place, you cannot be forced by anyone to provide an ID when voting in California for any reason (insert lame reason here). Everyone knows why, regardless of the denial. The new California law made US elections less secure. This was done by Gov Newsom a Democrat.
Click to expand...
And you will only be given a provisional ballot in that case, and one's registration for a provisional ballots then has to be verified before the vote is counted.
ChrisBFRPKY said:
It's the epitome of dishonesty to claim a law that prohibits Voter ID in California, does not. I realize the MO of many that have grown comfortable with others accepting their nonsensical ramblings of opinion as fact, but try not to forget where you are. There may still be a few genuine skeptics around.
Click to expand...
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
The thing is as a rule, I never make false statements. As a Trump voting Republican member of the forum, I fully expect anything I post to be placed under a microscope. Undocumented Immigrants in California have been able to obtain a Driver's License for some years now. It's called an AB 60 license. This license number can be used to "illegally" register to vote. Indeed some undocumented people were able to vote in the 2018 Federal midterm elections when California "accidentally" registered them automatically thru their "Motor Voter" program which automatically registers individuals to vote when they receive a driver's license. So it's not like its never happened before. Indeed to further that sort of thing, you'd want to make showing Voter ID at the polls a thing of the past. And that's exactly what Newsom did by passing a new law to not require Voter ID in California. It encourages those not legally eligible to vote, to register and do just that.

As usual, there are forum members splitting hairs of every hypothetical they can make from my factual post, yet none of those frivolous attempts hold water. Some claim you must show ID for your first vote, nope that was only if you did not provide something like a Driver's License number during your voter registration, (a license number undocumented immigrants HAVE) and that was before Newsom's new law about ditching the Voter ID requirements at that. Now with the new law in place, you cannot be forced by anyone to provide an ID when voting in California for any reason (insert lame reason here). Everyone knows why, regardless of the denial. The new California law made US elections less secure. This was done by Gov Newsom a Democrat.

It's the epitome of dishonesty to claim a law that prohibits Voter ID in California, does not. I realize the MO of many that have grown comfortable with others accepting their nonsensical ramblings of opinion as fact, but try not to forget where you are. There may still be a few genuine skeptics around.
Click to expand...
Lying about your lies do not make them any less of a lie. You said that CA did away with voter ID. That is a false statement (and I would say a purposeful lie) because as your own 'rebuttal' here states, a from of voter ID is required to register to vote. If you want a separate discussion of what constitutes adequate proof of citizenship, then we can have that discussion, but don't lie about it by making the false statements that you have made. You are purposefully lying in order to further your undemonstrated opinion that making it easier to vote is being done to encourage or promote fraud, as opposed to simply making it easier to vote. It's a backhanded way of making this all about a conspiracy to control election results through fraud. Anyone can play that game, and I have seen several of my friends and acquaintances make the complaint online that they, despite being U.S. citizens, had their voter registration mysteriously eliminated from the rolls.
If you wanna prove fraud, then prove it. Don't make your case by lying about voter requirements. Your "everyone knows why, regardless of denial" is about as stupid a statement anyone can make for someone claiming to be a "genuine" skeptic. It is prima facie evidence that you are just parroting whatever garbage you can think of that suits your own agenda. Someone can make the identical "everyone knows why" statement to say that voter ID requirements in a place where it is stringent, are made so purposely to disenfranchise legitimate voters. If you want to make that argument that "politicians are generally in favor of laws that favor their own continued existence" then I think we can both agree on that conclusion. But that holds equally for Republicans and Democrats, not one or the other.
 
Paul2 said:
Chatgpt tells us that



And you will only be given a provisional ballot in that case, and one's registration for a provisional ballots then has to be verified before the vote is counted
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Nope. That provisional ballot is if you did not provide a Driver's license number when you registered to vote. AB 60 Driver's licenses are accepted and allowed to be used for voter registration.
stanfr said:
Lying about your lies do not make them any less of a lie. You said that CA did away with voter ID. That is a false statement (and I would say a purposeful lie) because as your own 'rebuttal' here states, a from of voter ID is required to register to vote. If you want a separate discussion of what constitutes adequate proof of citizenship, then we can have that discussion, but don't lie about it by making the false statements that you have made. You are purposefully lying in order to further your undemonstrated opinion that making it easier to vote is being done to encourage or promote fraud, as opposed to simply making it easier to vote. It's a backhanded way of making this all about a conspiracy to control election results through fraud. Anyone can play that game, and I have seen several of my friends and acquaintances make the complaint online that they, despite being U.S. citizens, had their voter registration mysteriously eliminated from the rolls.
If you wanna prove fraud, then prove it. Don't make your case by lying about voter requirements. Your "everyone knows why, regardless of denial" is about as stupid a statement anyone can make for someone claiming to be a "genuine" skeptic. It is prima facie evidence that you are just parroting whatever garbage you can think of that suits your own agenda. Someone can make the identical "everyone knows why" statement to say that voter ID requirements in a place where it is stringent, are made so purposely to disenfranchise legitimate voters. If you want to make that argument that "politicians are generally in favor of laws that favor their own continued existence" then I think we can both agree on that conclusion. But that holds equally for Republicans and Democrats, not one or the other.
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I realize it's easier to just accuse someone of a lie rather than educating yourself to the truth. As I said above, an AB 60 Driver's license is acceptable for voter registration in California. California voters are no longer required to present ID to vote or drop off their ballot at polling stations.
Please feel free to educate yourself on the illegal immigrant votes that were cast in the 2018 midterm elections in California. It's easily accessible online and factual information is available at your fingertips.

If you're trying to sell me that the new California law that prohibits requirement of ID at the polling place to vote or drop off a ballot actually does not do that, I'm not buying.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB1174
 
Tero said:
Brief note to Democrats: if the election is with someone like Trump running, the policies are nothing. There were issues, sure, abortion and Trump's foreigners. But the Democrat needs to test out their speaking manner and approach to low information voters next time. You have to explain things like it was a middle schooler. Except speak to an adult but use simple words. Those voters are hard to get interested in politcs at all. But now they felt they had a complaint. Many were young enough to never have had a major inflation to deal with. Test focus groups next time. When we have a whole year to run a campaign. Now we had some 100 days.
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Perfect! Triple down!
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Nope. That provisional ballot is if you did not provide a Driver's license number when you registered to vote. AB 60 Driver's licenses are accepted and allowed to be used for voter registration.

I realize it's easier to just accuse someone of a lie rather than educating yourself to the truth. As I said above,
an AB 60 Driver's license is acceptable for voter registration in California. California voters are no longer required to present ID to vote or drop off their ballot at polling stations.
Please feel free to educate yourself on the illegal immigrant votes that were cast in the 2018 midterm elections in California. It's easily accessible online and factual information is available at your fingertips.

If you're trying to sell me that the new California law that prohibits requirement of ID at the polling place to vote or drop off a ballot actually does not do that, I'm not buying.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB1174
Click to expand...
Prove that statement, I'll be waiting.
From the CA DMV site:
"Individuals with AB 60 driver's licenses are not eligible to participate in the California Motor Voter program and are not eligible to vote."

ETA: Regarding your claim of illegals voting in 2018-- a total of six--SIX people apparently were found to have voted due to the mistake in enrolling them. That is why it is so laughable and disgusting when the Trumptards and TrumpIdiot himself continuously make the claim that thousands--hundreds of thousands--of illegals voted. It is imaginary BS conceited and conceived in the deep empty space in their skulls.
 
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stanfr said:
Prove that statement, I'll be waiting.
From the CA DMV site:
"Individuals with AB 60 driver's licenses are not eligible to participate in the California Motor Voter program and are not eligible to vote."

ETA: Regarding your claim of illegals voting in 2018-- a total of six--SIX people apparently were found to have voted due to the mistake in enrolling them. That is why it is so laughable and disgusting when the Trumptards and TrumpIdiot himself continuously make the claim that thousands--hundreds of thousands--of illegals voted. It is imaginary BS conceited and conceived in the deep empty space in their skulls.
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Thank you. I was hoping you would go there (possibly counting on it). Legally, one must be a US citizen to vote. However, it has been proven that is not the case in California as per my previous info on the 2018 midterm "voting errors" due to the "Motor Voter" accidental registration of undocumented individuals.

If one wishes to break the law and illegally register and vote in US elections even though they are not a US citizen, all that's required is the willingness to roll the dice and do so.

So now you're going to propose that California has special magic in place to prevent anyone from registering to vote that uses an AB 60 Driver's license? OK, here's where we can learn about AB 1766 which includes the following changes: "Existing law requires the restricted licenses and identification cards to include a recognizable feature on the front of the cards, such as the letters “DP” instead of “DL” and “IC” instead of “ID.”
This bill would delete the provision requiring a recognizable feature on the cards."

Here's the link to it if you'd like to read more.


Do you see how that works? First you allow undocumented persons to get a state Driver's License with identifying marks that identify that person as a non-US citizen, then later you remove those marks allowing them to use their Driver's license as a form of ID same as any other US citizen. Now once again we have to consider that it is illegal for anyone to vote in US elections if they're not a US citizen. If someone shows up at the polling place on election day, is forced to show their ID and places an illegal vote, they've opened themselves up to being arrested on the spot for voting fraud. If we allow someone to show up at a polling place on election day, drop off a ballot without showing ID, why that's called a reasonable doubt.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Thank you. I was hoping you would go there (possibly counting on it). Legally, one must be a US citizen to vote. However, it has been proven that is not the case in California as per my previous info on the 2018 midterm "voting errors" due to the "Motor Voter" accidental registration of undocumented individuals.

If one wishes to break the law and illegally register and vote in US elections even though they are not a US citizen, all that's required is the willingness to roll the dice and do so.

So now you're going to propose that California has special magic in place to prevent anyone from registering to vote that uses an AB 60 Driver's license? OK, here's where we can learn about AB 1766 which includes the following changes: "Existing law requires the restricted licenses and identification cards to include a recognizable feature on the front of the cards, such as the letters “DP” instead of “DL” and “IC” instead of “ID.”
This bill would delete the provision requiring a recognizable feature on the cards."

Here's the link to it if you'd like to read more.


Do you see how that works? First you allow undocumented persons to get a state Driver's License with identifying marks that identify that person as a non-US citizen, then later you remove those marks allowing them to use their Driver's license as a form of ID same as any other US citizen. Now once again we have to consider that it is illegal for anyone to vote in US elections if they're not a US citizen. If someone shows up at the polling place on election day, is forced to show their ID and places an illegal vote, they've opened themselves up to being arrested on the spot for voting fraud. If we allow someone to show up at a polling place on election day, drop off a ballot without showing ID, why that's called a reasonable doubt.
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So now you're purposely muddying the waters and ignoring the fact that you've been caught red-handed blatantly lying about the CA law. All your speculation about voter fraud is just that, speculation. Pointing out one isolated of fraud doesn't demonstrate any of your lies. You're employing multiple logical fallacies, using circular reasoning, putting the cart before the horse, and just making plain stupid arguments.
As a slight aside, I've lived in half a dozen states, and none of them--NONE--required me to show ID at the voting place. I was on their lists, I signed my name--done!! This is over the course of decades of previous elections. So to pretend it is some recent phenomena just in CA that lets you vote without presenting an ID just displays your ignorance and naive bias.
 
This is amusing...I was just lectured by a 'friend' on social media who said they were happy trump won and happiness is a good thing, so I should not be such a hater.
The first thought I had was "Trump is the opiate of the people" so that is what I responded with. I knew I could not have been the only one to recognize that truth--so I Googled it, and found this! JD Vance uncannily predicted the future back in 2016!
Atlantic
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Nope. That provisional ballot is if you did not provide a Driver's license number when you registered to vote.
Click to expand...
Provisional ballots are given out in more circumstances than what you mention. I just worked at a polling place this election and our instructions were that if a voters eligibility can’t be resolved one way or the other, they vote a provisional ballot and election officials figure out after Election Day.

ChrisBFRPKY said:
AB 60 Driver's licenses are accepted and allowed to be used for voter registration.
Click to expand...
The non-citizen registering with an AB 60 license will have their vote not count when the state cross-checks the voter reg info and immigration status databases.

ChrisBFRPKY said:
I realize it's easier to just accuse someone of a lie rather than educating yourself to the truth. As I said above, an AB 60 Driver's license is acceptable for voter registration in California. California voters are no longer required to present ID to vote or drop off their ballot at polling stations.
Please feel free to educate yourself on the illegal immigrant votes that were cast in the 2018 midterm elections in California. It's easily accessible online and factual information is available at your fingertips.

If you're trying to sell me that the new California law that prohibits requirement of ID at the polling place to vote or drop off a ballot actually does not do that, I'm not buying.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB1174
Click to expand...

ChrisBFRPKY said:
Nope. That provisional ballot is if you did not provide a Driver's license number when you registered to vote. AB 60 Driver's licenses are accepted and allowed to be used for voter registration.

I realize it's easier to just accuse someone of a lie rather than educating yourself to the truth. As I said above, an AB 60 Driver's license is acceptable for voter registration in California. California voters are no longer required to present ID to vote or drop off their ballot at polling stations.
Please feel free to educate yourself on the illegal immigrant votes that were cast in the 2018 midterm elections in California. It's easily accessible online and factual information is available at your fingertips.

If you're trying to sell me that the new California law that prohibits requirement of ID at the polling place to vote or drop off a ballot actually does not do that, I'm not buying.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billNavClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240SB1174
Click to expand...
 
Aridas said:
Just to poke at this for a moment - that you would so readily declare the actual actions of the Democratic Party to be "pretending" may be representative of part of the underlying problem with the political landscape in the US. There's good reason that Democrats being in charge tends to be described as them governing, though, and that Republicans being in charge tends to be described as them ruling. There's fundamentally different base goals and principles that are increasingly in play in who gets selected and rewarded.


If you're solely talking about emotionally? Potentially. We are all humans, after all, so it would be no surprise at all if there were similar conditioned reactions to stimuli.
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I can't imagine the Republicans freaking out when Biden passed an infrastructure act or a chips act. The most obvious thing did that was "wokism" was to promote vaccination. But now every single Trump will do will get me angry. Every single day. Biden was never in your face as a president. He chose special issues to address the nation.
 
stanfr said:
So now you're purposely muddying the waters and ignoring the fact that you've been caught red-handed blatantly lying about the CA law. All your speculation about voter fraud is just that, speculation. Pointing out one isolated of fraud doesn't demonstrate any of your lies. You're employing multiple logical fallacies, using circular reasoning, putting the cart before the horse, and just making plain stupid arguments.
As a slight aside, I've lived in half a dozen states, and none of them--NONE--required me to show ID at the voting place. I was on their lists, I signed my name--done!! This is over the course of decades of previous elections. So to pretend it is some recent phenomena just in CA that lets you vote without presenting an ID just displays your ignorance and naive bias.
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Utterly bizarre. I've pointed out exactly what California law says and provided links. Please feel free to specify exactly what I've lied about regarding the topic of California law. Be specific please, no more of the "You're lying", include exactly what that purported lie is, and a link to prove it as such. I'm all for facts but not interested in emotional responses or unsupported opinion.
 
Paul2 said:
Provisional ballots are given out in more circumstances than what you mention. I just worked at a polling place this election and our instructions were that if a voters eligibility can’t be resolved one way or the other, they vote a provisional ballot and election officials figure out after Election Day.


The non-citizen registering with an AB 60 license will have their vote not count when the state cross-checks the voter reg info and immigration status databases.
Click to expand...
Paul, ChatGPT was last updated October 2023.
 
ChrisBFRPKY said:
Utterly bizarre. I've pointed out exactly what California law says and provided links. Please feel free to specify exactly what I've lied about regarding the topic of California law. Be specific please, no more of the "You're lying", include exactly what that purported lie is, and a link to prove it as such. I'm all for facts but not interested in emotional responses or unsupported opinion.
Click to expand...
You have stated, numerous times: by law no ID is required to vote in California.
And it has been pointed out to you, numerous times, tnis is a FALSE statement!
You continue to double down on it, over and over again, as a deliberate lie--or perhaps to attempt to cover up your ignorance.
It has been pointed out to you, numerous times, that CA expressly requires voter ID--regardless of what form that takes--in order to register to vote, which in turn is needed to vote! In fact, that is their public argument in favor of the law forbidding an ID *presentation* by local officials--that it is a redundant requirement! whether that is an adequate burden to meet to ensure a fair process is a separate issue--and until you acknowledge that basic fact, continuing to lie about it, and bringing up side issues about whether or not AB 60 ID is a recipe for voter fraud, there is no getting through your thick skull. So stop obfuscating and bring yourself up to speed on the facts if you want to make an argument as a "real" skeptic!
ETA: in anticipation of your repeated claim that we are splitting hairs about ID requirements--I have just told you, that in 6 states I have voted in for decades, I have never had to present an ID upon voting *in person* at the polls! So stop insisting that CA is making some sort of novel requirement to vote. It's only novel in your paranoid, delusional brain!
 
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