Merged 2019-nCoV / Corona virus

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I think a few people are still missing the point with this disease - 20% of patients are either serious or critical.

Even if half the people catch it, that's 10% of the entire population too sick to work for up to four weeks.

Let alone how hospitals are equipped to deal with those numbers, when 20% of their staff will be sick with it.
 
Chinese Govenrment is making noises about lifting some of their restrictions, despite the virus seeming to get out of control.
Maybe they are scared of the economic consequnces and would be willing to sacrifice a few thousand lives to try to save their economy.

They then almost immediately went back on that.
 
I think a few people are still missing the point with this disease - 20% of patients are either serious or critical.

Even if half the people catch it, that's 10% of the entire population too sick to work for up to four weeks.

Let alone how hospitals are equipped to deal with those numbers, when 20% of their staff will be sick with it.

Not necessarily. Depends on who those people who are serious or critical. If they are in their eighties, it isn’t working age people.
 
Is antibacterial hand soap effective without water? Running water wont be that easy to get here except at home and hand sanitizer is already all gone

Antibacterial hand soap is meant to be used like regular soap with water and it is not more effective than plain soap. The ingredient, triclosan, is effective but when used at home by people it doesn't add anything to the mix.

Keep looking for the sanitizer, stores might get more in. Also, try some online sources.
 
Lysol is an EPA regulated pesticide while Listerine is an FDA regulated drug, so they're different things making different claims.
For a disinfectant to make virucidal claims, efficacy data has to be submitted to the EPA for each specific virus showing at least a 3 log10 reduction (99.9%) in the quantity of virus on test surfaces, using American Society for Testing and Materials Method E 1053.
The typical Lysol label says "Kills 99.9% of viruses and bacteria**", with the ** being a footnote elsewhere on the label, "** Kills Salmonella enterica, Escherichia coli O157:H7, Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Staphylococcus aureus, Avian Influenza A (H1N1) Virus and Herpes Simplex Virus Type 1 & 2." Yes, if someone didn't notice the footnote, that could be seen as a claim to kill all viruses and bacteria.
The majority of consumer disinfectants are blends of various quaternary ammonium chloride compounds, which have been used as disinfectants for decades, working by denaturing proteins and disrupting cell membranes in the target organisms.
Pesticide?

Listerine has been taken to court multiple times for false advertising and is one of the few products the company actually had to make a retraction commercial for. The alcohol in it is listed under "inactive ingredients" buried in the same paragraph as active ingredients making it hard to see. There is not enough alcohol to meet the minimum EPA guideline to be called a disinfectant or antiseptic.

They were sued by the dental floss association for claiming to prevent cavities. In response, they added fluoride so they could keep making the claim. Now fluoride is about the only actually active ingredient in it.

I have to go but will address the issues with lysol when I get back.
 
Pesticide?

Listerine has been taken to court multiple times for false advertising and is one of the few products the company actually had to make a retraction commercial for. The alcohol in it is listed under "inactive ingredients" buried in the same paragraph as active ingredients making it hard to see. There is not enough alcohol to meet the minimum EPA guideline to be called a disinfectant or antiseptic.

They were sued by the dental floss association for claiming to prevent cavities. In response, they added fluoride so they could keep making the claim. Now fluoride is about the only actually active ingredient in it.

I have to go but will address the issues with lysol when I get back.

What disinfenctent woule you recommend for general cleaning around the house?
 
What disinfenctent woule you recommend for general cleaning around the house?
That's a tad too complicated for a short forum answer. But in general:

Depends on where and what you are cleaning.

If it's a surface you put food on, use something with bleach in it.

If you are cleaning the bathroom floor and you don't have toddlers playing on the floor, just use something that cleans the floor.

Using disinfectants when you don't need them means you are inhaling toxins you don't need to inhale.


Re Lysol and the EPA approved registration for it, and this goes with your question: Lysol advertises the product as something you spray around the air and all the airborne organisms will be killed.

Think about a wall with balloons taped on it. Imagine throwing some darts at the wall. How many balloons did you pop? Can you imagine how ineffective something you spray in the air is at contacting aerosolized microorganisms, let alone contacting them long enough to kill the organism?

So in addition to reading the fine print Armitage72 so thoroughly posted about, consider the commercials are very misleading about how you use the products.


Re Armitage's post, yes something sold to go in your mouth is under a different regulatory body than something you spray on the counter.
 
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For those interested, it appears there are quite a number of github repositories relating to this virus. Some are efforts of modeling the transmission. Others are detailed genetic data.

For those that aren't familiar with Github, it's the worlds largest open source repository of about anything but mostly software and databases. China (and others) have been active contributers. It's mostly active by researchers who are sharing info realtime with other researchers. I hadn't thought to look there until now, foolish me.

Here's just one interesting repo:
https://github.com/wuhan2020/wuhan2020/blob/master/README_EN.md
 
Some of the news here has reported that after the misplacing of the virus test kits last week Hawaii will not have any test kits until mid March, is this true? How can they be so confident when they say they test and release here? Is there a good way to tell without the test kits?
 
Some of the news here has reported that after the misplacing of the virus test kits last week Hawaii will not have any test kits until mid March, is this true? How can they be so confident when they say they test and release here? Is there a good way to tell without the test kits?

One option for Hawaii is to ban all passenger flights and passenger ships. Allow cargo ships. Pity about the tourist industry, but it would mean that unless the virus is already on the island it will not arrive.
 
It seems 28 people who left the Diamond Princess and went home now have fevers.

I'm composing an email to ProMed to voice my disappointment that not only did they ignore my post with the video documenting the poor infection control on that ship, but they also posted this rosy report suggesting the infection control measures were peachy, by the book:

Field briefing: Diamond Princess COVID-19 cases
Background:
[snipped some of the background summary] The Japanese government requested that the Diamond Princess stay at port, with no passengers or crew disembarking, in Yokohama when it arrived on [3 Feb 2020]. During [3-4 Feb 2020], the health status of all passengers and crew members were checked by questionnaire by quarantine officers, and respiratory specimens were taken from symptomatic passengers, crew, and their close contacts to test for novel coronavirus. On [5 Feb 2020], a lab-confirmed case of COVID-19 led to the quarantine of the Diamond Princess for 14 days beginning at 7 a.m., with passengers requested to stay in their cabins. As of [5 Feb 2020], there was a total of 3711 individuals on board the Diamond Princess, with 2666 passengers and 1045 crew members.

Quarantine measures:
At the beginning of the quarantine period, crew members were provided with personal protective equipment (PPE) and instructed on appropriate IPC practices. On [7 Feb 2020], passengers were provided thermometers for self-monitoring of body temperature, with instructions on calling a "fever call center" if they had a fever above 37.5 deg C [99.5 deg F]. Passengers who developed fever were referred to the medical team in charge and were tested for novel coronavirus. Passengers who developed serious illness, including non-COVID-19 morbidities, were referred to the ship's medical center, which provided essential health services. Those passengers with lab-confirmed COVID-19 were disembarked and transferred to an isolation ward at healthcare facilities. Their cabinmates were defined as "close contacts" and were therefore tested. If positive, they were also confirmed as a case and disembarked to a healthcare facility. If they tested negative, they remained on board but with a 14-day quarantine period reset after the last contact with the confirmed case. All crew and healthcare staff onboard the Diamond Princess were instructed to follow international guidance on infection prevention and control. To maintain operations of the ship, some crew continued to perform essential, limited services while the ship remained in quarantine. This led to those crew members not remaining fully isolated, in the same manner as passengers, during the quarantine period.

Data collection:
Initially, only symptomatic cases and close contacts were being tested for COVID-19. This was changed on [11 Feb 2020], due to the expansion of laboratory capacity, with quarantine officers systematically collecting respiratory specimens from all passengers by age group, starting with those 80 years old and older as well as individuals with co-morbidities, such as diabetes or a heart condition. Respiratory specimens collected were tested via PCR for confirmation of novel coronavirus. Epidemiological data collected was initially limited due to the emergency nature of the quarantine and included data on onset of symptoms, date of lab confirmation, and close contacts. A confirmed case of COVID-19, for this report, is anyone, passenger or crew, who had a positive PCR test for novel coronavirus, independent of their symptom presentation. In most cases, the "population on board" refers to the 3711 passenger and crew aboard Diamond Princess on 5 Feb [2020].

Preliminary results:
[numbers snipped]

Preliminary conclusions:
Based on the number of confirmed cases by onset date, there is clear evidence that substantial transmission of COVID-19 had been occurring prior to implementation of quarantine on the Diamond Princess on [5 Feb 2020] (see also febrile patient visits to the on-board clinic below). The decline in the number of confirmed cases, based on reported onset dates, implies that the quarantine intervention was effective in reducing transmission among passengers. Transmission toward the end of the quarantine period, which is scheduled to end for most passengers on [19 Feb 2020], appears to have occurred mostly among crew or within passenger cabins. It should be noted that due to the nature of the ship, individual isolation of all those aboard was not possible. Sharing of cabins was necessary, and some crew had to continue to perform essential duties for the functioning of the vessel with passengers aboard.

Recent confirmations of asymptomatic cases can be explained by the systematic testing of passengers that began around [14 Feb 2020]. Although some of these cases may have been secondary cases within a given cabin, it is difficult to know when transmission occurred. They may have been infected before the quarantine began. Nevertheless, these asymptomatic cases have been disembarked, and their cabinmates have been defined as close contacts with their 14-day isolation reset on the day the asymptomatic case was disembarked. The systematic testing of asymptomatic cases was useful in screening these persons before allowing them to disembark.

Preliminary actions/guidance:
Those persons (mostly passengers) who have completed the 14-day quarantine, have not tested positive, and pass a medical check on the 14th day [end of quarantine period] will be disembarked on [19 Feb 2020].

Those individuals who were in contact with a confirmed case will be put in isolation until they complete the 14-day period beginning after the last day of their suspected contact with a case. This includes a large proportion of the crew members of the Diamond Princess. The crew performed essential tasks that allowed the quarantine to occur successfully for 14 days and should be appreciated for their service.
As the persons aboard were exposed to a high-risk environment for a prolonged period, all persons who disembark should be careful about the health conditions for the time being and immediately report to a public health center if they develop symptoms.

[The source URL also has tables and graphs to support the conclusions presented above:
They downplay ongoing transmission. They make no mention of the crew infecting passengers, only each other and they mention the crew successfully keeping the quarantine.

They blame all the new cases on exposures before the quarantine was implemented and on exposure to cabin-mates.


So about these new cases, who are the officials saying they were exposed to?
 
One option for Hawaii is to ban all passenger flights and passenger ships. Allow cargo ships. Pity about the tourist industry, but it would mean that unless the virus is already on the island it will not arrive.
Until they run out of imported goods like food. :rolleyes:
 
Until they run out of imported goods like food. :rolleyes:

Please. I said allow cargo ships in. These would carry all the goods they need. And if they wanted to import stuff by plane then cargo planes that do not carry any passengers would be used. The only downside to what I have said is that tourism is a major industry in Hawaii.

Ditto to all other Pacific Islands.
 
One option for Hawaii is to ban all passenger flights and passenger ships. Allow cargo ships. Pity about the tourist industry, but it would mean that unless the virus is already on the island it will not arrive.

Last week a japanese couple who was visiting hawaii took it home with them, so it was on the plane and for all we know, he caught it here. A lot of us are starting to suspect we've actually had it for quite some time

https://www.khon2.com/local-news/ha...for-coronavirus-is-now-in-critical-condition/
 
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Until they run out of imported goods like food. :rolleyes:

The passenger ships dont bring the food, but really, tourism is a TINY offset to the amount of money the US spends to feed and care for hawaii. Its the least we can do to try and pay our share

and I mean the least, its crazy how little it is compared to what uncle sam pays in

But we definitely have zero chance of feeding ourselves...I guess you could eat little bits of fish off the coast till you died of ciguterra or mercury poisoning, but definitely not enough coconuts, bananas or taro to live for long
 
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