Merged 2014 Hugo awards.

[AdamSK]

The greatest living author of character-driven SF is Lois McMaster Bujold. For hard (conceptual) SF, it's Greg Egan.

Both have won the Hugo.

 

[fuelair]

It would have been an interesting article if it was accurate.

It's from an ******* for ******** - but I hope those dog *********** puppies are out of fandom forever and are out of SF forever.

 

[fuelair]

Possibly, but that doesn't make him wrong about this. Did you even know there was such a thing as the Hugo Awards before Breitbart told you what to think about it?



Sure, as long as you ignore what Vox Day and his cronies say and do, they totally don't seem racist.

Don't know about the republickers, but I have known about them since before `1960 and been to four of them.......

 

[carlvs]

Well, it could be worse - the Romance Writers of America had an even more shocking surprise (warning: NSFW language in title) in their award nominations.

I mean who thought that a "Christian" publishing house,

- putting out a novel inspired on one of the more famous stories from the Jewish faith,

- set during the time of the WORST disaster (and I don't think I have to state what) to befall the Jewish people,

- involving a romantic relationship between a Jewish woman and a SS officer (who would become the story's "hero,")

was a GOOD idea!?!?

 

[bruto]

First it was thoughts now apparently books are being burned as well. This country is looking more like a police state by the day.


http://www.breitbart.com/big-govern...to-prove-how-tolerant-and-welcoming-they-are/

It takes a perception stranger than most to imply that the state (or, excuse me, the "police state") is the agency giving out Hugo Awards and a vision beyond the mere bizarre to imagine that not getting such an award is the equivalent of burning books.

I think if I were as crazy as the Breitbart people, I'd be afraid to get out of bed in the morning for fear of falling through the cracks in the world.

 

[Corsair 115]

Already a longish thread on this subject in the History, Literature, and the Arts section. Here's the link to it.

It would have been an interesting article if it was accurate.

Feel free to point out the inaccuracies. (Don't forget the citations.)

What really happened is that some nasty racists tried to manipulate the Hugo Awards and failed.

You can find plenty of details and analysis on G.R.R. Martin's blog:

http://grrm.livejournal.com/tag/hugo awards

Well, if such statements are allowed in one direction, then they're good enough to be used in the other: "It would have been an interesting article if it was accurate."

Wow. The more people accept diversity, the more desperate that right wing becomes.

Assuming, of course, that the classification of "right wing" is correct. If you've gotten that from some mainstream news reports on the matter, there's a good chance you're being misled. The same kind of misrepresentations, half-truths, or outright lies frequently stated by the mainstream press about GamerGate have been said about the Sad Puppies as well.

Sure, as long as you ignore what Vox Day and his cronies say and do, they totally don't seem racist.

Do be aware that the Rabid Puppies (the group Day is pushing) is not the same as the Sad Puppies.

 

[Beeyon]

What really happened is that some nasty racists tried to manipulate the Hugo Awards and failed.

You can find plenty of details and analysis on G.R.R. Martin's blog:

http://grrm.livejournal.com/tag/hugo awards

While Martin is clearly Anti-Puppy, he was explicitly not in favor of the "no award" response to the puppy slating.

 

[Wildy]

I doubt Ancillary Sword or The Goblin Emperor were puppy nominees. The Three Body Problem was ultimately my 2nd choice, but it's a worthy winner.

There were a few other categories in which I voted No Award, but other voters didn't agree with me. And, yes, I did attempt to plow through all the fiction and related work nominees: all of the shorter works, and as much of the novels as I could take.

ETA: a complete breakdown of the voting can be found at http://www.thehugoawards.org/content/pdf/2015HugoStatistics.pdf

According to The Puppy Free Hugo Award Voters Guide it seems they weren't.

 

[Retrograde]

Martin never won a hugo and his GOT is easily the best fantasy series of the past 20 years. I don't think Jordan won a hugo either

He's won 4 for shorter fiction, in 1975, 1980 (twice) and 1997; I suppose you could count the 2012 win for the first season of Game of Thrones, but I consider that a group effort.

 

[catsmate]

It's always fun when the mainstream media misinforms, distorts, or outright lies.

Not as amusing as the desperate spinning of the puppyboys, gamergaters and their supporters.

As a general note, I can't say I'm surprised by the inability of some supposedly skeptically-minded folks to not even entertain the idea that maybe, just maybe, what they've heard about a group/side/what have you might be wrong. Nope, we've got the righteous certainty of The Truth™!

Listen to the other side? Heresy!

Or perhaps, and I understand if this might be difficult for your to understand, we have listened to the "other side", analysed it and found it wanting in logic and adherence to reality.

ETA: As I am starting to enjoy the role of playing a heretic, at least as it regards this particular topic, I offer the following so that it can be rejected: Set Phasers to Kill! SJWs Burn Down The Hugo Awards To Prove How Tolerant And Welcoming They Are.

Wow that's pathetic. Both the article and your citing of it as if it had some accuracy.

Bretibart, riiiiight.

Sorry, I gave GG and the puppies their chance a long time ago. They flopped badly. Their extracted price was too high & sickening for any positive results they could ever acheive. You might have convinced yourself of that in the echo-chamber that the Gamergate thread became after those opposing it decided it wasn't worth the effort any more (much as most of the media has done with GG) but that does not mean your are right or that we haven't been paying attention.

Indeed.

 

[catsmate]

For the record, Breitbart's history of promoting the deceitful Planned Parenthood videos means it deserves to be hand waved away.

Yeah they seem to have abandoned any pretense of neutrality or accuracy.

I doubt Ancillary Sword or The Goblin Emperor were puppy nominees. The Three Body Problem was ultimately my 2nd choice, but it's a worthy winner.

There were a few other categories in which I voted No Award, but other voters didn't agree with me. And, yes, I did attempt to plow through all the fiction and related work nominees: all of the shorter works, and as much of the novels as I could take.

ETA: a complete breakdown of the voting can be found at http://www.thehugoawards.org/content/pdf/2015HugoStatistics.pdf

Good for you. There was some absolute dreck nominated by the puppies and given that better material lost out to their pathetic efforts No Award is a reasonable response.

As for the novels, well there was actual choice there. Personally I preferred Ancillary Sword and The Goblin Emperor to The Three Body Problem but all three were worthy contenders no rubbish nominated though an orchestrated effort to game the system by a handful of malcontents.

It would have been an interesting article if it was accurate.

It's an Elfie cite so that's only to be expected.

 

[catsmate]

What really happened is that some nasty racists tried to manipulate the Hugo Awards and failed.

You can find plenty of details and analysis on G.R.R. Martin's blog:

http://grrm.livejournal.com/tag/hugo awards

Not just racists. The puppyboys include:

Poxy: a racist, sexist, homophobe, "libertarian", anti-Semitic, anti-vaxxer, xian apologist, PuA, sometime stalker, marital rape supporter and son of a tax dodging felon.

John Wright: a bigoted xian apologist (and RCC sex abuse denier/apologist) with forays into homophobia, misogyny, AGW denial and miscellanous rants about the Girl Scouts teaching lesbianism and rambling comparisons of
Terry Pratchett to Adolph Hitler. Particularly curious was:

Christian cutie-pies are sexier than sterile pagan dames (because our women are fertile, their rounded breasts engorged with milk, their nubile and allipygious hips able to bear children, whereas pagan women are mannequins, female in name only, barren

Tom "the ammonia king" Kratman; a homophobic, transphobic, misogynst with delusions about his prowess, and perhaps one of the worst writers ever. Also a Nazi apologist. Prone to Internet Tough Guy syndrome and ranting at anyone who dares to criticise his or his work.

Brad Torgersen: a mediocre writer (IMO) who seemed more motivated by his own ego but was partially responsible for the puppyboy saga and indulged in self-justifying lies about the withdrawal of Juliette Wade and then demonstrated his own homophobia with his rant about John Scalzi.

Larry Correia: well he started all because of his hissy fit over losing in previous Hugos and later tried frantic backpeddling when Poxy got involved. He also produced notorious rant against doversity in sci-fi.

Lou Antonelli: more of a fellow traveller than a true puppy (and one who's lied about his connection) but certainly a supporter; however he's a loon. Highlights of his antics include his 'Nazi' rant against Deirdre Saoirse Moen, his attempt to get one of his critics (Aaron Pound) fired, his laughable suggestions of legal action against Tor and of course his reporting David Gerrold to the Spokane police for inciting violence. This led to the trouble with Carrie Cuinn when she dropped one of his stories and his followers (incited perhaps by his edited reporting of the matter) started bombarding her with rape and death threats.

Michael Williamson: writer of truly awful military sci-fi with wooden characters and non-existent plots. Also known for his racist and misogynist commentary especially his June 2015 tweets about the mass murder in Charleston which led to Facebook banning him. Fond of posing with guns.

Wow. The more people accept diversity, the more desperate that right wing becomes. Thanks for bringing this particular event to mind, Elf.

It scares them. Perhaps because it fascinated them...

The greatest living author of character-driven SF is Lois McMaster Bujold. For hard (conceptual) SF, it's Greg Egan.

Both have won the Hugo.

Why not start a thread on who you think is the bets author?

 

[catsmate]

Well, it could be worse - the Romance Writers of America had an even more shocking surprise (warning: NSFW language in title) in their award nominations.

The ISF auto-censor won't allow your link. Try here.

I mean who thought that a "Christian" publishing house,

- putting out a inspired on one of the more famous stories from the Jewish faith,

- set during the time of the WORST disaster (and I don't think I have to state what) to befall the Jewish people,

- involving a romantic relationship between a Jewish woman and a SS officer (who would become the story's "hero,")

was a GOOD idea!?!?

Yeah, Poxy was complaining about the reaction to that book too, along with his usual rants about "SJWs" and "political correctness". Hardly surprising given his own opinions, his neo-Nazi links and xianity.

 

[Aepervius]

It's also not true at all; no "Gamergate" thread here has been an echo-chamber, with plenty of points-of-view shared by both "sides" and a few folks who have defined themselves as on "neither side" as well.

The awards were voted upon not by some small cadre of "SJWs", but by science fiction fans who are WSFS members, just like in the case of the nominations. The vote was as legitimate as the nomination process; the choice of winners was every bit as valid as the choice of nominees.

Partially true. Since the vote only require a registration, and is open to all, it is as any similarly set up internet vote open to agenda driven ballot stuffing. I am not saying this was the case here but the number of people stand out from previous years (I looked only back up to 2012 since I could only look intot he PDF themselves one by one which is a PITA). Number of vote i saw : 2000-3500 , but this year ~5000 and despite a nominating ballot of 1000 (more than the previous year I looked ~700) they were submerged by no award.

I would be willing to make an analyzes of numbers, but to me it either mean the award this year attracted innocently a lot of people, or somebody send thru the grapevine a call to make a specific "vote".


Note : I do not care either way whether sad/angry/crying/whining/puppies/kitties/SJW/MRA/CSA/TWA or whatever. I care only about good SF voted by fan for being SF. If fan on either side begin to stuff ballot, they can both go to hell and i will drop Hugo on my list of "to read".

 

[Beelzebuddy]

All I see here are two tribes of howler monkeys flinging poo at each other.

I haven't been keeping up with my SF reading, so without referring to either side with insulting epithets, can someone teal deer some of the category entries? Are the sad puppy entries really undeserving, racist drivel? Are the non-sad-puppy entries thinly-disguised progressive screeds or high minded literary wankery? Or have both sides promoted works which are on their own merits worthy of award, and everyone involved in publicizing this whole debacle should be ashamed of themselves?

 

[catsmate]

Partially true. Since the vote only require a registration, and is open to all, it is as any similarly set up internet vote open to agenda driven ballot stuffing. I am not saying this was the case here but the number of people stand out from previous years (I looked only back up to 2012 since I could only look intot he PDF themselves one by one which is a PITA). Number of vote i saw : 2000-3500 , but this year ~5000 and despite a nominating ballot of 1000 (more than the previous year I looked ~700) they were submerged by no award.

I would be willing to make an analyzes of numbers, but to me it either mean the award this year attracted innocently a lot of people, or somebody send thru the grapevine a call to make a specific "vote".


Note : I do not care either way whether sad/angry/crying/whining/puppies/kitties/SJW/MRA/CSA/TWA or whatever. I care only about good SF voted by fan for being SF. If fan on either side begin to stuff ballot, they can both go to hell and i will drop Hugo on my list of "to read".

Voting in the Hugos requires a Worldcon membership, attending or supporting,.

Are the sad puppy entries really undeserving, racist drivel?

Well most of them are just poorly written rubbish. Once you get outside the "main" awards and into the other categories ('zines, artists, and editors) the puppy efforts are more blatantly ideologically driven.

One thing that really stand out from my reading of the puppy nominees is the hypocrisy of the claim that they want sci-fi to be "less preachy and more fun" given their habit of including authorial rants.

Are the non-sad-puppy entries thinly-disguised progressive screeds or high minded literary wankery?

Well that's really a matter of opinion. You could try reading some of them.

Or have both sides promoted works which are on their own merits worthy of award, and everyone involved in publicizing this whole debacle should be ashamed of themselves?

No. Damn few of the puppy nominees are up to Hugo standards.

 

[Aepervius]

Voting in the Hugos requires a Worldcon membership, attending or supporting,.

Which is only 40$. A step higher than normal but not far flung. And you can vote remotely you do not need to be physically present.

Again, I am highly suspicious when i see such a number surge for one controversial year when the previous year they show a much lower baseline.

Well most of them are just poorly written rubbish. Once you get outside the "main" awards and into the other categories ('zines, artists, and editors) the puppy efforts are more blatantly ideologically driven.

One thing that really stand out from my reading of the puppy nominees is the hypocrisy of the claim that they want sci-fi to be "less preachy and more fun" given their habit of including authorial rants.


Well that's really a matter of opinion. You could try reading some of them.


No. Damn few of the puppy nominees are up to Hugo standards.

I dunno. Ancillary justice, felt "old school" and beside the writing trick, only merely good but that's only me. There are a few other I read which felt good, but not what I call "excellence".

I will be the first to admit that maybe I am a curmudgeon when it comes to sf writing and the problem is with me seeing excellence as other criteria than nowadays hugo fan do, though.

Also maybe I am spoiler if I find "merely good" to be the bottom scrapping .

 

[catsmate]

Which is only 40$. A step higher than normal but not far flung. And you can vote remotely you do not need to be physically present.

But is still a far greater step than most opinion polling.

Again, I am highly suspicious when i see such a number surge for one controversial year when the previous year they show a much lower baseline.

Why? The surge was almost certainly down to people being pissed at the pubby antics.

I dunno. Ancillary justice, felt "old school" and beside the writing trick, only merely good but that's only me. There are a few other I read which felt good, but not what I call "excellence".

It's a good book (and last years winner). What did you nominate?

I will be the first to admit that maybe I am a curmudgeon when it comes to sf writing and the problem is with me seeing excellence as other criteria than nowadays hugo fan do, though.

Also maybe I am spoiler if I find "merely good" to be the bottom scrapping .

There are always different tastes.

 

[Donal]

Do be aware that the Rabid Puppies (the group Day is pushing) is not the same as the Sad Puppies.

Ya, and Sinn Fein isn't connected to the IRA.

Please don't insult both of with that plausible deniability nonsense. Its not coincidence that most of the Sad Puppy nominations were from Day's publishing company and/or were works Day was pushing.

And their premise that SciFi has no history of social commentary is a pathetic joke. They are sadder than the losers of Gamergate.

 

[carlvs]

The ISF auto-censor won't allow your link. Try here.

Oops - I didn't realize that the link itself would edited...

Anyway, Wired just put out a long article concerning this "debacle" (at least for the "puppies".) I trust that the censor will allow this one to go thru un-modified...