19 Hotshots Killed in Yarnell Hill Fire

[Polaris]

I heard this morning on NPR that the 19 who lost their lives were part of a 20-person team. I can't begin to imagine that kind of survivor's guilt.

 

[crescent]

I'm interpreting that to mean there were very strong winds in the area that ripped the shelters up and away, although I could be wrong.

I wonder if they all deployed. I've been a firefighter as well (I'm still red carded, but only as a Resource Advisor). I think the instinct to keep moving would be pretty strong. Absent a clear order from a superior, it would be a hard decision to stop trying to escape and instead go for the shelter - especially if the only place you've got to deploy in is marginal. I've known a few firefighters who swore up and down that they would never deploy, but would somehow always find a way and the energy to keep running.

I can see how with an attitude like that, the instinct to keep moving could get a person in a situation where they never do deploy the shelter, succumbing to scalded lungs and heat without the time to get the shelter out.

For all that most wildland fire fatalities are aircraft or vehicle related, or heart attacks, the burnover is still the nightmare we all have. I can't imagine the fear and panic. I mean, the shelters work, they protect the firefighter from a great majority of the heat, the face down position provides just enough cool air to avoid lung damage. But even then, when deployed when it was really needed, the survivors always had severe burns.

I heard this morning on NPR that the 19 who lost their lives were part of a 20-person team. I can't begin to imagine that kind of survivor's guilt.

It sound as if there were 18 members of the hotshot crew killed, plus one other firefighter. Two of the hotshots survived and are in a hospital. Maybe. It'll take a few days for the news reports to sort out the rumors and incorrect initial reports, just like in any disaster.

ETA: The current news accounts match DragonLady's version. What I heard and referenced in the preceding paragraph does not seem to be right anymore.

 

[DragonLady]

I heard this morning on NPR that the 19 who lost their lives were part of a 20-person team. I can't begin to imagine that kind of survivor's guilt.

Yes; I read somewhere the survivor was moving the truck. They've recovered the bodies, but there's still not much information about what went wrong or how it happened.

 

[fuelair]

Awful. Are these "personal fire shelters" not adequate to the task? What a hideous way to die.

http://www.nifc.gov/fireShelt/fshelt_main.html


under limited conditions they offer protection. outside those conditions they are just a roasting pan. and, anything beyond that with current tech would be too heavy to carry in the way they must travel and operate..........

 

[fuelair]

We know that wildfire is a natural part of the forrest lifecycle and that stopping it causes further problems in the long run. We also know that attempting to stop it carries a non zero risk of killing people. That being the case it is reasonable to ask if the cost benefit analysis actauly supports attempting to stop the things.

Not to mention that smoke on it's own causes many problems of a health nature to people and other living things. at quite some distance from the actual fires

 

[wasapi]

My oldest son in a fire fighter in Northern California, but is often sent to other states during warm weather to be part of a strike team. He has worked as a hot shot many times. (The enclosures that they found the dead fire fighters in are called, "shake and bakes".)

He is somewhere now fighting fire, but I've been unable to reach him for a few days, and I will not feel comfortable until I hear from him again.

I feel so sorry for the families. When they leave to fight fire, it is always in the back of your mind. To have that fear actually realized, is almost too painful to even ponder.

 

[tyr_13]

The fire is now 15 miles from my home. We're much afraid we may have to evacuate. Looking out my windows, all I can see is white smoke behind the hills like a huge fog bank.

I know it's twelve hours late, but be safe!

 

[SezMe]

.... and it's only going to get worse.

 

[DragonLady]

.... and it's only going to get worse.

We've already had people baking cookies in their van.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/...s-bake-cookies-in-van-20130629,0,786916.story

If it gets much worse, we'll all be migrating eastward.

 

[Travis]

My college ran a firefighting school and when I was there I knew a young lady that deployed with the hotshots who was killed while fighting a fire.

They were down in a canyon when blowing embers suddenly started new fires that trapped them on three sides. They ran but, encumbered with so much heavy gear, she collapsed, likely from heat stroke or exhaustion, and the fire overtook her.

That was a sad week on campus.

 

[Shiner]

Flags are at half-staff at fire stations around my area today.

As Lionking said earlier, in Australia bushfire is a part of life for a lot of people.

Forest, brush and grass fires all differ, but here we just call them bushfires. Not fighting them is NOT an option.

To those who question the wisdom, I ask; At what point would you consider fighting a fire?
When it's burned down the first street full of houses in a suburb? Before then? How long before?

ETA, A list of names of the 19 is in this link.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...-yarnell-arizona/story-e6frg6n6-1226672863025

Another detailed story here.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-07-02/arizona-fires-survivor/4792888

 

[Shiner]

These wildland fires can jump eight-lane highways....

... rivers, lakes, and valleys.

Very good post. It applies almost equally to Australia.

 

[Puppycow]

I wonder if drones could be utilized to avoid such tragedies in the future.

Here's my idea:

It would help these guys to avoid getting trapped if they had an eye in the sky that knows where they are and can also see the surrounding area from a bird's eye perspective. That way the person monitoring by drone could see if a fire was developing in a way that is likely to cut off and surround the firefighters. He/she could also tell them the best direction to move to escape.

 

[DragonLady]

I wonder if drones could be utilized to avoid such tragedies in the future.

Here's my idea:

It would help these guys to avoid getting trapped if they had an eye in the sky that knows where they are and can also see the surrounding area from a bird's eye perspective. That way the person monitoring by drone could see if a fire was developing in a way that is likely to cut off and surround the firefighters. He/she could also tell them the best direction to move to escape.

I think that's an excellent idea. I think I read it was a helicopter pilot that spotted the bodies, and I assume he had to wait for the worst to be over before he could fly in. Using a drone to send back streaming video might be a much better solution.

 

[Puppycow]

I think that's an excellent idea. I think I read it was a helicopter pilot that spotted the bodies, and I assume he had to wait for the worst to be over before he could fly in. Using a drone to send back streaming video might be a much better solution.

Cheaper too. Drones can be fairly light weight compared to manned aircraft, and can stay aloft longer using less fuel.

 

[gsmonks]

While it's unfortunate the 19 firefighters died, it was an occupational hazard up there with race car driving and scaling buildings without safety gear.

People putting themselves in harm's way for a living doesn't evoke much in the way of sympathy from me. I don't see them as heroes, and my visceral reaction is *shrug*

I'm more of a "brave fireman rescues children and pets from burning building" type of guy.

 

[Travis]

While it's unfortunate the 19 firefighters died, it was an occupational hazard up there with race car driving and scaling buildings without safety gear.

People putting themselves in harm's way for a living doesn't evoke much in the way of sympathy from me. I don't see them as heroes, and my visceral reaction is *shrug*

I'm more of a "brave fireman rescues children and pets from burning building" type of guy.

These are people that put their lives on the line to save entire communities. How is that not heroic?

 

[SezMe]

I'm more of a "brave fireman rescues children and pets from burning building" type of guy.

I don't understand. You *shrug* at these guys trying to halt the progress of a fire that might do untold damage yet claim to be a

brave fireman rescues children and pets from burning building

What the hell does that mean?

 

[commandlinegamer]

Someone mentioned non-native grass species leading to an increase in fires. Could these be removed via spraying or controlled burning, or are we simply looking at too big an area?

 

[Tiktaalik]

Someone mentioned non-native grass species leading to an increase in fires. Could these be removed via spraying or controlled burning, or are we simply looking at too big an area?

The entire west is covered with cheat grass at this point. It's only vulnerable during a specific point in its growing cycle, which is fairly short, and some of the control methods pollute water systems and kill other vegetation and insects. Weed and non-native control is a huge job but it's often a losing proposition unless you can get some help from something like the tamarisk beetle. Prescribed burning often seems to result in more cheat grass rather than less.