[Continuation] The sinking of MS Estonia: Case Reopened Part VII

[GlennB]

^

Wonderfully put.

 

[theprestige]

Almost makes you feel like maybe the captain deserved two to the back of the head.

Maybe Vixen should be scouring the papers for reports of an amnesiac killer, rampaging around Europe, trying to remember why the captain of the Estonia rests full fathom five, dead by his hand.

 

[JayUtah]

Quite the contrary.

Take note, Vixen. This is what someone sounds like who is genuinely curious about how the world works.

 

[JesseCuster]

I just learned a wonderful word while watching YouTube.

Ultracrepidarian.

It perfectly describes one of this thread's interlocutors.

 

[Here_to_learn]

Apologies for again waking this thread up...


Swedish Public Radio today quotes a senior accident investigator from the Swedish Accident Investigation Authority:

Det finns inga belägg för att Estonias haveri orsakades av ett sabotage av bogrampen, enligt Haverikommissionen som nu låtit att analysera rampen.

Tekniker har undersökt alla delar av bogrampen som under åren gett upphov till en mängd olika spekulationer om orsaken till fartygets förlisning.

”Vi har inte hittat någonting som tyder på en sprängning eller något annat som har fått rampen att öppna”, säger Jörgen Zachau, utredningsledare vid Haverikommissionen.

– Undersökningen visar alltså att de skador som finns på rampen stämmer väl överens med den skadebeskrivning eller den händelsebeskrivning som har redogjorts för, säger Jörgen Zachau.

There is no evidence that Estonia's accident was caused by sabotage of the bow ramp, according to the Accident Investigation Authority, which has now had the ramp analyzed.

Technicians have examined all parts of the bow ramp, which over the years has given rise to a variety of speculations about the cause of the ship's sinking.

"We have not found anything that indicates an explosion or anything else that has caused the ramp to open," says Jörgen Zachau, investigation leader at the Accident Investigation Authority.

- The investigation thus shows that the damage found on the ramp matches well with the damage description or the incident description that has been reported [JAIC], says Jörgen Zachau.

The article goes on to talk about how the ramp hit parts of the ship, how the rails where torn off and that the ramp closed again when the ship rested on the bottom.

 

[Mojo]

Apologies for again waking this thread up...


Swedish Public Radio today quotes a senior accident investigator from the Swedish Accident Investigation Authority:

There is no evidence that Estonia's accident was caused by sabotage of the bow ramp, according to the Accident Investigation Authority, which has now had the ramp analyzed.

Technicians have examined all parts of the bow ramp, which over the years has given rise to a variety of speculations about the cause of the ship's sinking.

"We have not found anything that indicates an explosion or anything else that has caused the ramp to open," says Jörgen Zachau, investigation leader at the Accident Investigation Authority.

<fx Vixen: "see, it must have been rammed by a wheeled submarine.">

 

[Vixen]

Apologies for again waking this thread up...


Swedish Public Radio today quotes a senior accident investigator from the Swedish Accident Investigation Authority:





The article goes on to talk about how the ramp hit parts of the ship, how the rails where torn off and that the ramp closed again when the ship rested on the bottom.

I don't recall any expert claiming there was a bomb on the car ramp door itself. The issue with the car ramp door was how come two Estonnian athletes were able to climb down the car ramp door if it was supposedly wide open? The other question is, how did it become detached from the ship later on.

To recap, British naval experts found key metallic deformations on the forward bulkhead hull (not the car ramp door), Prof. Ida Westermann on the bow visor itself and Prof Amdahl on the hull.

Film maker Henrik Evertsson and Linus Andersson captured the image of a massive rip along the side.

In the Accident Report, the JAIC report, which came out in 1997 , it is said that the bow grab was torn away when the bow visor came loose and allowed water to flow onto the car tires. The new analysis of the damage to the bow ramp fully supports that description. That's what survey leader Jörgen Zachau says.

- Yes, the ramp has then been torn open with great force, opened completely and passed its extreme position. And hit with hard force in the front spike tire and in the bolt. The signs of the ramp after such a description of events are clear.

ibid

 

[zooterkin]

I don't recall any expert claiming there was a bomb on the car ramp door itself.

Your recollection is accurate, for once. Only conspiracy loons made such a suggestion, as well as other similar flights of fancy.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

I don't recall any expert claiming there was a bomb on the car ramp door itself.

Give that dead horse another whack: I think it twitched. The ramp door was definitely not opened by explosives. So it doesn't matter where you fantasize bombs being placed. They weren't.

The issue with the car ramp door was how come two Estonnian athletes were able to climb down the car ramp door if it was supposedly wide open?

Whack the corpse again, just to make extra sure. They couldn't have climbed down it at all unless it was open. The only handholds are on the inside.

Snip the rest because it's so flogged to death it's just a waste of everyone's time rehashing it. None of these things is even slightly anomalous. You're just stubbornly impervious to reason.

 

[Andy_Ross]

What about the supposed unexploded bombs seen by your ex royal navy expert?

 

[Here_to_learn]

- Yes, the ramp has then been torn open with great force, opened completely and passed its extreme position. And hit with hard force in the front spike tire and in the bolt. The signs of the ramp after such a description of events are clear.

The text in Swedish does not talk about tires but about decks. What you have posted is google translate not picking the right meaning of the word "däck".

What they are saying is that the force applied on the ramp (by the water) made the ramp hit the hull, and also applied force on the bolt.

The key point is - nothing has been found that changes the conclusion from the JAIC report.

 

[Jack by the hedge]

...What you have posted is google translate not picking the right meaning of the word "däck".

Thanks. I wondered what odd autotranslate errors were going on there. It obviously made no sense but <shrug> somehow it just got posted anyway.

 

[JayUtah]

To recap, British naval experts found key metallic deformations on the forward bulkhead hull (not the car ramp door)

To recap the actual facts, Braidwood's analysis draws wild conclusions from inconclusive data. You purport that there is a more complete set of data that supports his conclusions, but you are unwilling to produce it.

Prof. Ida Westermann on the bow visor itself

Prof. Westerman specifically disclaimed the use of explosives. You consistently misrepresent her.

...and Prof Amdahl on the hull.

Prof. Amdahl was given only a portion of the relevant data and was led to the conclusion that it had been a collision, not an explosion. I commented at length on his analysis. Your attempt to grapple with those facts is how we found out how badly you lie about what you say you know.

Film maker Henrik Evertsson and Linus Andersson captured the image of a massive rip along the side.

They lied about what they found, to make it seem like a singular cataclysmic event.

All this was all told to you hundreds of pages ago and several times since. You simply prefer conspiracy theories over fact. Multiple modes of proper investigation have now ruled out explosives of any kind, anywhere on the wreck.