Piggy
Unlicensed street skeptic
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2006
- Messages
- 15,905
I'm continually surprised to discover how many educated and informed people believe that gorillas and chimps have been taught sign language.
Yes, some primates have been taught to make gestures, and to get what they want by using them, but this is a trivial trick that can be done with all sorts of animals.
Truth is, no gorilla or chimp has ever been taught sign language, or any sort of language.
To be clear, language is not just any set of agreed-upon calls. Many animals use calls and signals.
A language consists of a socially-agreed-upon (and inevitably evolving) set of arbitrary symbols (e.g., crying is not a component of language) coupled with a set of grammatical rules which allow these symbols to be combined in an infinite variety of unique and meaningful expressions.
Screaming "Aaaah, aaaah, aaaah!" is communication (depending on how it's inflected, it could mean "I'm extremely frightened" or "I'm ecstatically excited") but it is not language.
Language allows us to invent previously unimagined communications, like George Carlin's example "I'm going down to the softball field and beat up Hitler's widow". Even though we've never heard this combination of words, and even though it describes something unreal, we nevertheless understand it. That's the power of language.
The rules of grammar also disallow certain constructions. For example, the phrase "Car got ride over crash yesterday the for vanity" is not a valid English construction -- it holds no meaning.
So take a look at this "interview" with the most famous of the simian signers, Koko the gorilla, and see what you think.
This is from the researchers' own site. It is the best they can do.
It's no wonder that these simian sign researchers are so protective of their data.
There is also this:
It is also telling that they use sign-counts, guided "interviews" and other such methods to "test" the animals.
If I claimed to have taught my nephew Spanish, there would be a simple way to test this -- have him sit down with a native speaker and have a conversation.
Yet this is never done.
The whole thing is a hoax. These animals are not using language.
There are many cases of non-scientists abusing science in order to perpetrate hoaxes, such as Intelligent Design, and pass them off as science. But it is rare for funded researchers to do it themselves, although a few have appeared in Randi's commentaries.
Not many people have heard about Sheldrake, for example. But the notion that "apes have been taught to talk in sign language" is a highly pervasive meme.
And it chaps my butt no end.
Time to expose these frauds, perhaps the most successful scientific fraud of our time.
Yes, some primates have been taught to make gestures, and to get what they want by using them, but this is a trivial trick that can be done with all sorts of animals.
Truth is, no gorilla or chimp has ever been taught sign language, or any sort of language.
To be clear, language is not just any set of agreed-upon calls. Many animals use calls and signals.
A language consists of a socially-agreed-upon (and inevitably evolving) set of arbitrary symbols (e.g., crying is not a component of language) coupled with a set of grammatical rules which allow these symbols to be combined in an infinite variety of unique and meaningful expressions.
Screaming "Aaaah, aaaah, aaaah!" is communication (depending on how it's inflected, it could mean "I'm extremely frightened" or "I'm ecstatically excited") but it is not language.
Language allows us to invent previously unimagined communications, like George Carlin's example "I'm going down to the softball field and beat up Hitler's widow". Even though we've never heard this combination of words, and even though it describes something unreal, we nevertheless understand it. That's the power of language.
The rules of grammar also disallow certain constructions. For example, the phrase "Car got ride over crash yesterday the for vanity" is not a valid English construction -- it holds no meaning.
So take a look at this "interview" with the most famous of the simian signers, Koko the gorilla, and see what you think.
This is from the researchers' own site. It is the best they can do.
It's no wonder that these simian sign researchers are so protective of their data.
There is also this:
Source: U PennSophia A. Malamud said:
It is also telling that they use sign-counts, guided "interviews" and other such methods to "test" the animals.
If I claimed to have taught my nephew Spanish, there would be a simple way to test this -- have him sit down with a native speaker and have a conversation.
Yet this is never done.
The whole thing is a hoax. These animals are not using language.
There are many cases of non-scientists abusing science in order to perpetrate hoaxes, such as Intelligent Design, and pass them off as science. But it is rare for funded researchers to do it themselves, although a few have appeared in Randi's commentaries.
Not many people have heard about Sheldrake, for example. But the notion that "apes have been taught to talk in sign language" is a highly pervasive meme.
And it chaps my butt no end.
Time to expose these frauds, perhaps the most successful scientific fraud of our time.
Gotta get two nobel prizes ya know, one just doesn't cut it any more.
