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Race-Based Grading

Thermal said:
Meeeeeeh...I dunno. Passing a class is more than memorizing facts and figures. There is an element of functioning in a society, too. Would you want to hire a straight-A student who doesn't show up for work or do what they are told, even if they understand the job? Would a college want to accept a student who is not prepared for the most basic requirements of lab work?

I mean, a public education is more than just the three Rs, isn't it?
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I've employed hundreds of people over my years, never once did I think an "A" grade or a "1" etc. in a subject told me anything about their attendance or their behaviour and so on as a kid at school or even college and university, it told me about a sliver of their academic capability. If the USA is using academic grades as a proxy for attendance and behaviour that seems very strange to me as I can't see any way a prospective employer can "decode" what that grade meant. Are they thick but turned up for every lesson, are they intelligent but only turned up for half the lessons, are they average but disruptive in class? How do you work it out?
 
Brainster said:
To repeat, I did not know the source was anything other than a small-town newspaper, which is why I didn't look into the source further. I did link to some of the material presented which at least backs up the main claims--that they are trying to reduce or eliminate grading based on attendance or submission of assignments, and that this is being done in the name of "Diversity, Equity and Inclusion." That this is code for "based on race" is the assumption of the writer, yes, but is it an unreasonable assumption?
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:rolleyes:
So, the "story" appealed to your opinions/prejudices and you swallowed it, hook, line and sinker, before regurgitating it here, spreading the lie as it's creators intended.
Maybe you should re-think your trust of sources that supposedly support your opinions?
 
Anatomy of a fake
What a viral fake news story about "race-based grading" tells us about our media ecosystem

...

Awash in pink slime
Local Government Information Services is the publisher of lots of local news media in Illinois, with titles like “Southern Illinois News” and “SW Illinois news.” LGIS is part much larger network of local news in multiple states. As local news media has disappeared “pink slime” outlets like LGIS have taken their place, relying on low-cost or automated content repeated across sites, and eschewing basic journalistic practices.

Just how big and how connected these local news outlets is difficult to discern. In 2020, the New York Times counted about 1,200 connected local news outlets that had arisen in just 10 years.
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https://donmoynihan.substack.com/p/anatomy-of-a-fake?s=w

An exploration of how these fake newspapers operate and the gullible rubes that credulously believe and spread their stories.
 
theprestige said:
Ad homs are a fallacy, and thus a bad reason to reject a claim.
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I think, though, that source credibility is an ok starting point for some cases.

If you hear a sensationalist headline, it might be difficult or time consuming to check out the truth of the headline, but if it comes from a source that is constantly giving sensationalist headlines that aren't true, then it makes sense to just dismiss it without further investigation.

In this case, I did some further investigation and verified it was hogwash, but I couldn't fault people who decided not to do that investigation simply based on the rather incredible claim from a source that has no credibility.
 
Oh, for ****'s sake:

Statement regarding grading practices

https://www.oprfhs.org/news/1742090/statement-regarding-grading-practices

In full:
Posted May 31, 2022

It has come to the District’s attention that a recent article in the online West Cook News inaccurately states that at the Board of Education’s May 26 meeting, Oak Park and River Forest High School announced that it will implement a race-based grading system in the 2022-2023 school year. This is not true.

OPRFHS does not, nor has it ever had a plan to, grade any students differently based on race. The article contains a variety of misleading and inaccurate statements. The article’s mischaracterization of the Board meeting is unfortunate and has caused unnecessary confusion.

As part of the Board of Education’s strategic plan, the OPRFHS Grading and Assessment Committee was formed to examine national research on objective, unbiased practices for determining whether students have mastered academic content. At the Board of Education’s May 26 meeting, the administration’s representative to the OPRFHS Grading and Assessment Committee provided an initial report that included a progress update on the committee’s examination of grading practices.

At no time were any statements made recommending that OPRF implement a race-based grading approach.

Prior to implementing grading changes, if any, recommendations will be made to the Board at a public meeting. Again, contrary to the title of the article, the district has not implemented, and has no intention of implementing, any grading and assessment policy based on race.

As the OPRFHS Grading and Assessment Committee continues its work, the district is committed to keeping the community updated to any changes. We encourage the community to seek information directly from the district or other reliable news sources rather than internet sources that continue to share inaccurate information.
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I have no other comment I would be permitted to make in this forum.

:jaw-dropp
 
Meadmaker said:
I think, though, that source credibility is an ok starting point for some cases.

If you hear a sensationalist headline, it might be difficult or time consuming to check out the truth of the headline, but if it comes from a source that is constantly giving sensationalist headlines that aren't true, then it makes sense to just dismiss it without further investigation.

In this case, I did some further investigation and verified it was hogwash, but I couldn't fault people who decided not to do that investigation simply based on the rather incredible claim from a source that has no credibility.
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Sure. It's a heuristic I use all the time. The important thing is, I don't argue that other people should reject it based on my application of an ad hom.
 
Shepherd said:
Here's the school's response to the article:

"Statement regarding grading practices | Oak Park and River Forest High School"

Posted May 31, 2022"

https://www.oprfhs.org/news/1742090/statement-regarding-grading-practices
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Given how often that particular "news site" has lied about the school they probably have a template.

EaglePuncher said:
So one could say that the OP was.........content free?
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Truth free. It had lots of lies and dogwhistle terms to attract the dumber more gullible 'conservative'.
 
Brainster said:
Well, I would hope that some people have said the highlighted. The other part is the one the education establishment can control, and there are some indications it is going on--the elimination of AP courses and magnet schools are just one indicator.

That said, I admit the headline is inflammatory and I should not have used it for the OP title, or at least added a question mark. My bad definitely there.
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Well, at least your humble enough to know when you are clearly wrong about something.

So thanks much for that.

Also, I hope that in the future if you see one such inflammatory article, then you will take the effort to do a bit of basic research in order to determine if said article is actually legitimate or not.

After all, there is great deal of fake stuff in the world: coins, antiques, identification cards, news items and so on, therefore one needs to be wary.
 
Darat said:
What a waste of time for the school to have to keep dealing with this type of crap, one wonders if there is a need to have more cases like the Sandy Hook parents suing Jones so that people stop lying.
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It;s the third or fourth such task for them.

Meadmaker said:
I think, though, that source credibility is an ok starting point for some cases.
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It is. Some people just love to engage in contrarian trolling.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Using grades to punish students for poor behavior strikes me as a strange way to deal with the problem. Grades should be a reflection on whether or not a student understands the material, not whether or not they showed up to class on time reliably. Especially in the context of children who are not the masters of their own affairs.
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One does not have to change grades based on attendance to be accused of discrimination.

For example, if a school practises continuous assessment then this would discriminate against students who were frequently absent - even if the student could ace the final exam.

No matter what assessment policy a school comes up with, there are bound to be some minority groups that do not fare as well under that policy and that is when you hear screams of "racism".
 
psionl0 said:
One does not have to change grades based on attendance to be accused of discrimination.

For example, if a school practises continuous assessment then this would discriminate against students who were frequently absent - even if the student could ace the final exam.

No matter what assessment policy a school comes up with, there are bound to be some minority groups that do not fare as well under that policy and that is when you hear screams of "racism".
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Evidence?
 
Darat said:
Evidence?
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Evidence of what?

Are you denying that anybody would claim "racism" if a particular race was disadvantaged under a grading policy or are you denying that continuous assessment would disadvantage students who were frequently absent?
 
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One of the right wing blogs I monitor to see just what they are saying is having a field day with this story.


You should check out the comments in this posting. Normally I'd provide an incipit but the author could not be bothered to write any commentary, just provide an inflamatory title.


https://up-ship.com/blog/?p=49604
 
Darat said:
I've employed hundreds of people over my years, never once did I think an "A" grade or a "1" etc. in a subject told me anything about their attendance or their behaviour and so on as a kid at school or even college and university, it told me about a sliver of their academic capability. If the USA is using academic grades as a proxy for attendance and behaviour that seems very strange to me as I can't see any way a prospective employer can "decode" what that grade meant. Are they thick but turned up for every lesson, are they intelligent but only turned up for half the lessons, are they average but disruptive in class? How do you work it out?
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It's by no means a slam dunk indicator, but if you only showed up for half the classes, you couldn't graduate here (minimum attendance requirements). Same with disruptive behavior- it would be difficult to get the diploma if you couldn't function in a reasonably structured environment. Good grades and extracurricular activities (sports or clubs) also reinforce being able to succeed in a typical power/social structure. And no matter how thick they may be, basic academic skills that are valuable to an employer would have to be handled to walk at commencement.
 
Thermal said:
It's by no means a slam dunk indicator, but if you only showed up for half the classes, you couldn't graduate here (minimum attendance requirements). Same with disruptive behavior- it would be difficult to get the diploma if you couldn't function in a reasonably structured environment. Good grades and extracurricular activities (sports or clubs) also reinforce being able to succeed in a typical power/social structure. And no matter how thick they may be, basic academic skills that are valuable to an employer would have to be handled to walk at commencement.
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Maybe I'm out of touch being a college educated effete "professional", but do employers who hire people with nothing more than a high school level education ask about grades? I worked my fair share of blue collar jobs through my college years and nobody asked about my high school GPA. Some wanted to know if I graduated or had a GED and that was it.

Even colleges and other higher ed programs understand that high school grades are a dubious metric, hence the heavy reliance on standardized testing.
 
SuburbanTurkey said:
Maybe I'm out of touch being a college educated effete "professional", but do employers who hire people with nothing more than a high school level education ask about grades? I worked my fair share of blue collar jobs through my college years and nobody asked about my high school GPA. Some wanted to know if I graduated or had a GED and that was it.

Even colleges and other higher ed programs understand that high school grades are a dubious metric, hence the heavy reliance on standardized testing.
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I doubt that a HS GPA would be really relevant, but the point was that a diploma indicates at least some degree of social conformity and performance.
 
Thermal said:
I doubt that a HS GPA would be really relevant, but the point was that a diploma indicates at least some degree of social conformity and performance.
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My point is still that penalizing grades for people for missing class or behavioral issues is essentially double punishment. Students who are regularly missing class or having other problems are very likely not going to be doing well on their academic work anyway, and if the problem is bad enough, they're going to fail. I don't see much added benefit in peppering them with 0s that can quickly make any prospect of a turnaround and improvement impossible.

It's pretty easy to imagine a situation where a student who was screwing up catastrophically for a relatively short period of time will rightly conclude that their situation is hopeless if such draconian policies are used, where a more lenient policy allowing for retakes and late work might actually give them a reason to apply themselves, should they have the will.
 
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psionl0 said:
Evidence of what?

Are you denying that anybody would claim "racism" if a particular race was disadvantaged under a grading policy or are you denying that continuous assessment would disadvantage students who were frequently absent?
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Evidence that your fantasy is anything but fantasy?
 
Thermal said:
It's by no means a slam dunk indicator, but if you only showed up for half the classes, you couldn't graduate here (minimum attendance requirements). Same with disruptive behavior- it would be difficult to get the diploma if you couldn't function in a reasonably structured environment. Good grades and extracurricular activities (sports or clubs) also reinforce being able to succeed in a typical power/social structure. And no matter how thick they may be, basic academic skills that are valuable to an employer would have to be handled to walk at commencement.
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You are supporting what I thought might be the case i.e. there is no way to decode grades into information about attendance,disruptiveness, sociability and so on.
 
theprestige said:
You're missing my point. I'm not defending the legitimacy of the reporter. I'm dismissing the significance of the claim due to the low quality of the reporter.
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As if critical thinkers should assign legitimacy to putrid data sources. And as if everyone has infinite free time to deep dive into dumpsters. You're foisting drivel masked as critical thinking in search of internet debate points.



.
 
I thought ad hom, like appeal to authority, had a little chunk carved out for relevance?

Ad hom is ‘don’t listen to that guy about epidemiology, he cheats on his wife!’
Is it also ‘don’t listen to that guy about anything, he’s a habitual liar!’ ?

It just doesn’t feel like it should be a logical fallacy to discount demonstrably broadly unreliable sources. Like, I agree it would not belong in a formal argument against (point) but it’s not inappropriate in this more general context here.

Anyway, I’m gonna ad hom my cat and tell you not to believe him when he acts like he hasn’t been fed.
 
psionl0 said:
One does not have to change grades based on attendance to be accused of discrimination.

For example, if a school practises continuous assessment then this would discriminate against students who were frequently absent - even if the student could ace the final exam.

No matter what assessment policy a school comes up with, there are bound to be some minority groups that do not fare as well under that policy and that is when you hear screams of "racism".
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Lots of people scream about lots of things. To me, I like discussing those things they are screaming about in relation to news stories about events that actually happened. This is not such a story.


What I'm screaming about is fake news, such as the story cited in the OP. I think it's unfortunate that media outlets publish such stories, and even worse that they are repeated uncritically in various other media outlets. Before you know it, regular people end up repeating it, and believing it,as if it were true.

In another thread, I noted recently that unreality has a strong grip in the USA right now. This story is a fine example of that.
 
Shepherd said:
Here's the school's response to the article:

"Statement regarding grading practices | Oak Park and River Forest High School"

Posted May 31, 2022"

https://www.oprfhs.org/news/1742090/statement-regarding-grading-practices
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Apparently this nonsense has gained more traction by the usual suspects:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/e...l-a-federal-civil-rights-complaint/ar-AAY3ppL

A conservative think tank led by former Department of Education officials has filed a federal civil rights complaint against an Illinois high school that announced it was implementing a grading system meant to equalize student outcomes by race.
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Sheesh.
 
psionl0 said:
Without knowing anything about the grading system that the high school plans to implement it is difficult to comment.
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Not a lot of specific info but what I've seen so far doesn't match up with grading based on race.

Here's the equity board's slides:
https://go.boarddocs.com/il/oprfhs/Board.nsf/files/CELJGA4D1599/$file/Professional%20Development%20and%20Grading%20BOE%20Presentation_.pdf [ed- pdf file (jimbob)]

Here's the author of the first listed book in the slides, "Grading for Equity" in an interview at Harvard's dept. of Ed. He goes into some detail.

https://www.gse.harvard.edu/news/19/12/harvard-edcast-grading-equity

I found the interview rather interesting. And some of what he discussed applied to me.

On a personal note, I got a B in high school chemistry because I often didn't turn in homework and didn't pay much attention in class. However, I also really liked chemistry (but not the chemistry class) and would get library books to read in areas I was curious about at any given time. I would toggle between books on chem. physics, and math because each made the others clearer. When I took SATs/aptitude tests I got a perfect score on the chemistry one. Unknown to me or my parents, the school changed my chemistry grades to A.
 
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