Race-Based Grading

[Brainster]

I suppose this is the latest front for the anti-racists (as compared to the not-racists):

Oak Park and River Forest (Illinois) High School administrators will require teachers next school year to adjust their classroom grading scales to account for the skin color or ethnicity of its students.

In an effort to equalize test scores among racial groups, OPRF will order its teachers to exclude from their grading assessments variables it says disproportionally hurt the grades of black students. They can no longer be docked for missing class, misbehaving in school or failing to turn in their assignments, according to the plan.

Now, misbehavior (within some reasonable limits) should not result in a lowered grade; there are other places on the report card for identifying social adjustment issues. But no penalties for missing class and failing to turn in assignments? Exactly whom do they expect to continue turning in assignments?

The concern is that in general, Blacks get poorer grades in school than whites or Asians. These days that is being ascribed to a prima facie case of racism. Okay so we eliminate these few things that are thought to be bringing down Black grades. But if you start with the assumption that Blacks are less likely to do their assignments and to actually show up for class, aren't you assuming they will learn less? The only way I can see this reducing the racial gap in grades is if it encourages Whites and Asians to stop doing their assignments and appearing at the designated times and locations. The Harrison Bergeron solution, in other words.

 

[bluesjnr]

What happens if an individual only turns up once to take a **** on the teachers desk and never hands in an assignment?

 

[catsmate]

Have you a reliable source for this claim? Westcooknews most definitely isn't one....
They've posted utterly fake stories about that school before too.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

The West Cook News appears to be a right wing shock jock's fake news website.

I mean this in the more classical sense, in which weird cranks set up their personal blogs to look like local newspapers.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-met-illinois-conservative-news-20180327-story.html

 

[catsmate]

The West Cook News appears to be a right wing shock jock's fake news website.

I mean this in the more classical sense, in which weird cranks set up their personal blogs to look like local newspapers.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-met-illinois-conservative-news-20180327-story.html

MB/FC rates it somewhat poorly.

In conclusion, the West Cook News is an imposter site, lacks transparency, and publishes false information. As a result, we rate them right-center, biased, and Questionable.

So, unless the OP manages to provide a decent source for the claims, I shall be dismissing it as lies, and suggest others do the same.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

MB/FC rates it somewhat poorly.


So, unless the OP manages to provide a decent source for the claims, I shall be dismissing it as lies, and suggest others do the same.

It's nice that Dan Proft has set up a system where he can suck himself off for radio content using scummy headlines published to real-looking fake local papers, but I likewise wonder how this is a reliable source for anything. It's an ouroboros of BS.

 

[Darat]

I suppose this is the latest front for the anti-racists (as compared to the not-racists):





Now, misbehavior (within some reasonable limits) should not result in a lowered grade; there are other places on the report card for identifying social adjustment issues. But no penalties for missing class and failing to turn in assignments? Exactly whom do they expect to continue turning in assignments?

The concern is that in general, Blacks get poorer grades in school than whites or Asians. These days that is being ascribed to a prima facie case of racism. Okay so we eliminate these few things that are thought to be bringing down Black grades. But if you start with the assumption that Blacks are less likely to do their assignments and to actually show up for class, aren't you assuming they will learn less? The only way I can see this reducing the racial gap in grades is if it encourages Whites and Asians to stop doing their assignments and appearing at the designated times and locations. The Harrison Bergeron solution, in other words.

Sounds like the crap they said about a history class last year at the same school.

Are you going to walk this back?

 

[theprestige]

Have you a reliable source for this claim? Westcooknews most definitely isn't one....
They've posted utterly fake stories about that school before too.

It does cite some primary sources and other more reputable media reports (i.e., the AP). But yeah, not a great source itself.

The West Cook News appears to be a right wing shock jock's fake news website.

I mean this in the more classical sense, in which weird cranks set up their personal blogs to look like local newspapers.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-met-illinois-conservative-news-20180327-story.html

The fascinating thing about this reaction is the tacit agreement that if these allegations were true, it would be a bad thing, and reflect badly on the policy makers who instituted the policy.

It would be bad if it were happening, but fortunately (for some) the reporter is a Bad Person, so we can probably just ignore the report and assume things are fine and this really stupid bad thing isn't happening at all.

 

[Brainster]

Sounds like the crap they said about a history class last year at the same school.

Are you going to walk this back?

I came across it on Memeorandum today and assumed by the look of it that it was some local newspaper. That said, at least some of what they claim is backed up by links to original documents (although they do some analysis). For example, should students be penalized for not showing up in class or turning in homework?

Up to 40% of traditional student grades include non-academic criteria that do not reflect student learning gains—including participation and on-time homework submission. As a result, traditional grading may inadvertently penalize underprivileged students who struggle to meet non-academic expectations.

Do traditional grading polices perpetuate inequities according to the local board? Yep, direct quote:

Traditional grading practices perpetuate inequities and intensify the opportunity gap

So not hard to see that participation and homework submission have got to go. That said, I will acknowledge that the original materials do not talk specifically about race-based grading; that seems to be an implication on the part of the website that may be true but is not specifically mentioned as the criterion.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

It does cite some primary sources and other more reputable media reports (i.e., the AP). But yeah, not a great source itself.


The fascinating thing about this reaction is the tacit agreement that if these allegations were true, it would be a bad thing, and reflect badly on the policy makers who instituted the policy.

It would be bad if it were happening, but fortunately (for some) the reporter is a Bad Person, so we can probably just ignore the report and assume things are fine and this really stupid bad thing isn't happening at all.

If the tacit allegations of known liars were true we'd live in a wildly different world.

It's worth pointing out on a skeptics forum that a supposed news story is being published on an astroturfing site. This whole thing is an obvious attempt at propaganda. Surely if the grand claims of this report are true someone who isn't running a fake local gazette will have covered it.

 

[theprestige]

If the tacit allegations of known liars were true we'd live in a wildly different world.

It's worth pointing out on a skeptics forum that a supposed news story is being published on an astroturfing site. This whole thing is an obvious attempt at propaganda. Surely if the grand claims of this report are true someone who isn't running a fake local gazette will have covered it.

I don't think that's a valid assumption. Media outlets are susceptible to ideological capture. An editor may not be looking for problems, or may not think it's a problem, or may not want to draw negative attention to it, etc.

Anyway, I'm agnostic about this one. It wouldn't surprise me if a school board or two were doing stupid stuff in the name of "equitable outcomes" or whatever. It wouldn't surprise me if the stupid stuff was flying under the media radar for a variety of reasons, and the only real reporting was coming from people with an axe to grind who were actually out there looking for problems.

But this particular report is pretty thin gruel. Too much bias, not enough conclusive facts from primary sources. So I'm not all that worked up about it.

The fact that we both agree that if it were happening, it would be a bad thing and should be stopped, is more than enough for me in this thread.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

I don't think that's a valid assumption. Media outlets are susceptible to ideological capture. An editor may not be looking for problems, or may not think it's a problem, or may not want to draw negative attention to it, etc.

Anyway, I'm agnostic about this one. It wouldn't surprise me if a school board or two were doing stupid stuff in the name of "equitable outcomes" or whatever. It wouldn't surprise me if the stupid stuff was flying under the media radar for a variety of reasons, and the only real reporting was coming from people with an axe to grind who were actually out there looking for problems.

But this particular report is pretty thin gruel. Too much bias, not enough conclusive facts from primary sources. So I'm not all that worked up about it.

The fact that we both agree that if it were happening, it would be a bad thing and should be stopped, is more than enough for me in this thread.

I think there's a world's difference between editorial bias and a paper trying to deceive readers into thinking it's a real local newspaper rather than an opinion blog with a deceptive name and layout.

This crosses from bias into straight up intellectual dishonesty. The people running this paper are overtly trying to deceive their readers. This is trash-tier clickbait worse than what you see from infowars or zerohedge, who at least have the decency to be honest about what they are. It's straight up astroturfing.

 

[theprestige]

I think there's a world's difference between editorial bias and a paper trying to deceive readers into thinking it's a real local newspaper rather than an opinion blog with a deceptive name and layout.

This crosses from bias into straight up intellectual dishonesty. The people running this paper are overtly trying to deceive their readers. This is trash-tier clickbait worse than what you see from infowars or zerohedge, who at least have the decency to be honest about what they are. It's straight up astroturfing.

You're missing my point. I'm not defending the legitimacy of the reporter. I'm dismissing the significance of the claim due to the low quality of the reporter.

---

That said, I could easily defend the "legitimacy" of the reporter. The point of a free press is that any citizen can get out there and report anything they want, under any letterhead or banner they want*.

Reporting isn't a game reserved for government mouthpieces or established "mainstream" publishers. Every citizen is a member of the press. Every citizen is entitled to set up their own local (online) newsletter, and compete for credibility and readership.

So "he's just a blogger with an axe to grind, pretending to be a legitimate local news outlet" doesn't impress me. He's not pretending. That's the free press. That's what a legitimate local news outlet is. He may not be very good at it. He may publish with a certain slant. He may well publish untruths. There are probably very good reasons to take everything he publishes with a grain of salt, or just dismiss it entirely without substantial corroboration from verified primary sources.

But the same exact thing can and should be said about the New York Times.

---
*Obviously things like fraud and libel and national security put some boundaries on press freedom.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

So "he's just a blogger with an axe to grind, pretending to be a legitimate local news outlet" doesn't impress me. He's not pretending. That's the free press. That's what a legitimate local news outlet is. He may not be very good at it. He may publish with a certain slant. He may well publish untruths. There are probably very good reasons to take everything he publishes with a grain of salt, or just dismiss it entirely without substantial corroboration from verified primary sources.

Yeah this guy must be really interested in local news, seeing as his company runs dozens of local papers. A true advocate for local news! Surely it's not just an astroturfing effort trying to dress up half-baked opinion pieces in a more respectable package.

ETA: It's somewhat interesting that these are still around. They were all the rage a few years back, but i thought that time had come and passed. I guess someone is still reading this dreck, but we're talking about boomers with the sub-infowars levels of media literacy. I would imagine these kinds of fake local stories get a lot of traction on facebook where all the morons graze, but i doubt these websites have any regular victors seeing how obviously fake the homepage appears.

 

[Thermal]

It is kind of odd that the article contains a few links, but none to anything that supports the more dramatic claims.

 

[theprestige]

Yeah this guy must be really interested in local news, seeing as his company runs dozens of local papers. A true advocate for local news! Surely it's not just an astroturfing effort trying to dress up half-baked opinion pieces in a more respectable package. : rolleyes :

You're dismissing the report based on your perception of the virtue of the reporter. You're resorting to ad homs, well-poisoning, and other rhetorical tricks and logical fallacies. This is obviously bad skeptical practice, but you're doing it anyway. There are better reasons to dismiss the report, but you're trying these ones anyway. Your rebuttal of the report is no better than the report itself. It's worse, actually, since the report itself does in fact cite some primary sources.

Your dismissal reads entirely like it's a bad thing, hopefully it's not true, it'll look really bad if it is true, and the best approach is to try to warn people off from even looking into it to see if it's true. Because if it were true, and people found out about it, that would be really bad.

 

[theprestige]

It is kind of odd that the article contains a few links, but none to anything that supports the more dramatic claims.

And that, not the alleged reputation of the reporter, is why I dismiss the report.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

You're dismissing the report based on your perception of the virtue of the reporter. You're resorting to ad homs, well-poisoning, and other rhetorical tricks and logical fallacies. This is obviously bad skeptical practice, but you're doing it anyway. There are better reasons to dismiss the report, but you're trying these ones anyway. Your rebuttal of the report is no better than the report itself. It's worse, actually, since the report itself does in fact cite some primary sources.

Your dismissal reads entirely like it's a bad thing, hopefully it's not true, it'll look really bad if it is true, and the best approach is to try to warn people off from even looking into it to see if it's true. Because if it were true, and people found out about it, that would be really bad.

How much of your day do you spend checking the veracity of claims made by people you know to have questionable commitments to the truth?

Do you spend a lot of time wondering whether the bat-boy on the cover of the National Enquirer is real or not?

You have a publisher intentionally trying to misrepresent itself as a local paper when it isn't. How do you normally treat sources of information you catch deliberately lying to your face?

And that, not the alleged reputation of the reporter, is why I dismiss the report.

Truly unforeseeable that an astro-turfing click bait site would take some liberties with their headlines not at all supported by the facts.

 

[theprestige]

How much of your day do you spend checking the veracity of claims made by people you know to have questionable commitments to the truth?

Depends on the nature of the claim, how interesting it is to me, and how much free time I have. The important thing is that I don't urge others to ignore it on the basis of my ad homs.

Do you spend a lot of time wondering whether the bat-boy on the cover of the National Enquirer is real or not?

The National Enquirer broke the John Edwards sex scandal.

You have a publisher intentionally trying to misrepresent itself as a local paper when it isn't. How do you normally treat sources of information you catch deliberately lying to your face?

That's your hobby horse, not mine.

Truly unforeseeable that an astro-turfing click bait site would take some liberties with their headlines not at all supported by the facts.

The same snark can and should be directed at the New York Times.

 

[theprestige]

Anyway, Brainster, the source you cited in the OP is weak, and doesn't support your OP very well. In general, I much prefer that people dig down to the primary sources, and see what they have to say, before posting claims about them.

A powerpoint deck is cited, but the provenance of the deck is not known. Have you at least read through the deck and seen if any of the slides actually support the claims being made? If so, why not report on that directly, and cut out the superfluous middleman-of-ill-repute?

A published paper(?) by one of the school's policymakers(?) is cited. Have you read the paper, and seen if it reflects the views and policies alleged in the second-hand report? If so, why not report on that directly?

Your probuttal is really no better than ST's rebuttal. The most important thing they have in common is they're both butt.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Setting aside the absurd claims by this fake newspaper, I'm failing to see what's so objectionable about distinguishing between disciplinary/behavioral problems and academic performance.

Using grades to punish students for poor behavior strikes me as a strange way to deal with the problem. Grades should be a reflection on whether or not a student understands the material, not whether or not they showed up to class on time reliably. Especially in the context of children who are not the masters of their own affairs.

 

[Darat]

It does cite some primary sources and other more reputable media reports (i.e., the AP). But yeah, not a great source itself.


The fascinating thing about this reaction is the tacit agreement that if these allegations were true, it would be a bad thing, and reflect badly on the policy makers who instituted the policy.

It would be bad if it were happening, but fortunately (for some) the reporter is a Bad Person, so we can probably just ignore the report and assume things are fine and this really stupid bad thing isn't happening at all.

Disagree - merely saying that it is likely to be a load of made up crap does not pass any kind of judgement on the crap if it was true.

 

[Darat]

I came across it on Memeorandum today and assumed by the look of it that it was some local newspaper. That said, at least some of what they claim is backed up by links to original documents (although they do some analysis). For example, should students be penalized for not showing up in class or turning in homework?



Do traditional grading polices perpetuate inequities according to the local board? Yep, direct quote:


So not hard to see that participation and homework submission have got to go. That said, I will acknowledge that the original materials do not talk specifically about race-based grading; that seems to be an implication on the part of the website that may be true but is not specifically mentioned as the criterion.

So, do I really need to call it out?

 

[theprestige]

Disagree - merely saying that it is likely to be a load of made up crap does not pass any kind of judgement on the crap.

Why bother to dismiss the reporter with ad homs, if you believe the thing they're reporting on is a good idea?

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Why bother to dismiss the reporter with ad homs, if you believe the thing they're reporting on is a good idea?

Two things can be true at once.

 

[Thermal]

Setting aside the absurd claims by this fake newspaper, I'm failing to see what's so objectionable about distinguishing between disciplinary/behavioral problems and academic performance.

Using grades to punish students for poor behavior strikes me as a strange way to deal with the problem. Grades should be a reflection on whether or not a student understands the material, not whether or not they showed up to class on time reliably. Especially in the context of children who are not the masters of their own affairs.

Meeeeeeh...I dunno. Passing a class is more than memorizing facts and figures. There is an element of functioning in a society, too. Would you want to hire a straight-A student who doesn't show up for work or do what they are told, even if they understand the job? Would a college want to accept a student who is not prepared for the most basic requirements of lab work?

I mean, a public education is more than just the three Rs, isn't it?

 

[Darat]

Why bother to dismiss the reporter with ad homs, if you believe the thing they're reporting on is a good idea?

Why ever not? Facts matter.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Meeeeeeh...I dunno. Passing a class is more than memorizing facts and figures. There is an element of functioning in a society, too. Would you want to hire a straight-A student who doesn't show up for work or do what they are told, even if they understand the job? Would a college want to accept a student who is not prepared for the most basic requirements of lab work?

I mean, a public education is more than just the three Rs, isn't it?

Flunking a kid for behavioral problems doesn't fix anything either.

K-12 isn't a job or college. The schools themselves have some role in ensuring students attend and do their work. A student routinely missing class or not doing their work probably merits more attention than simply dinging their grades. A persistent enough problem merits intervention. The problem itself may be beyond the control of the student in any number of ways. Children generally cannot exert agency over their own affairs the ways adults do.

I doubt a student who is regularly missing class is going to be crushing their academic work anyway, so it's not like some screw-up is going to be getting straight As and acing the SAT. Behavioral problems are almost certainly going to impact their grades anyway, so I see no reason to double dip.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Why bother to dismiss the reporter with ad homs, if you believe the thing they're reporting on is a good idea?

Love getting local news from my favorite local news reporter "LGIS News Service"

There's no byline for this article. It's not even trying to be genuine.

I'm reading the sports section of this genuine local paper. I'm honestly wondering if they are written by some sports-score harvesting algorithm, or maybe contracted out to some 3rd world country and written by someone with a poor grasp of the english language.

 

[theprestige]

Why ever not? Facts matter.

Ad homs are a fallacy, rightly repudiated by critical thinking.

 

[Meadmaker]

That said, I will acknowledge that the original materials do not talk specifically about race-based grading; that seems to be an implication on the part of the website that may be true but is not specifically mentioned as the criterion.

Or it could be an implication that's total fabrication with no basis in reality. It wasn't mentioned as the criterion because it's not the criterion.


On the other hand, it does seem to be the case that someone is talking about removing the effects of non-academic criteria from the student scores. I don't see how homework, though, is "non-academic". Yes, if I think back to high school, there was some busywork assigned, but homework was really kind of where you actually learned the subject.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Or it could be an implication that's total fabrication with no basis in reality. It wasn't mentioned as the criterion because it's not the criterion.


On the other hand, it does seem to be the case that someone is talking about removing the effects of non-academic criteria from the student scores. I don't see how homework, though, is "non-academic". Yes, if I think back to high school, there was some busywork assigned, but homework was really kind of where you actually learned the subject.

It's hard to say what this policy might entail because the source in the OP is so clearly not credible. It could range from making homework totally optional and allowing students to run roughshod over teachers to loosening the grade punishments for late work in some circumstances, but it's hard to say with the complete lack of credible info given.

 

[Meadmaker]

It's hard to say what this policy might entail because the source in the OP is so clearly not credible. It could range from making homework totally optional and allowing students to run roughshod over teachers to loosening the grade punishments for late work in some circumstances, but it's hard to say with the complete lack of credible info given.

Agreed. I tried googling some things, and didn't come up with much. It is being repeated, but I got hits from Westcooke, Breitbart, and Accuracy in Media.

 

[TurkeysGhost]

Lol look at this sports section and tell me this is a real newspaper:

https://westcooknews.com/stories/tag/53-sports

Dozens and dozens of stories spanning a handful of days just regurgitating tennis results with broken language bordering on word salad, using stock photos and the same quote:

Jarett Cascino of New York Tennis Magazine says tennis is one of the most competitive youth sports.

Cookie cutter fake newspaper.

ETA: fired up the search feature: SHOWING 7,311 RESULTS FOR '"JARETT CASCINO OF NEW YORK TENNIS MAGAZINE SAYS TENNIS IS ONE OF THE MOST COMPETITIVE YOUTH SPORTS."'

 

[catsmate]

I came across it on Memeorandum today and assumed by the look of it that it was some local newspaper. That said, at least some of what they claim is backed up by links to original documents (although they do some analysis). For example, should students be penalized for not showing up in class or turning in homework.

Let's see your "backed up claims".

 

[catsmate]

It is kind of odd that the article contains a few links, but none to anything that supports the more dramatic claims.

No it isn't, not these days.

 

[Meadmaker]

I came across it on Memeorandum today and assumed by the look of it that it was some local newspaper. That said, at least some of what they claim is backed up by links to original documents (although they do some analysis). For example, should students be penalized for not showing up in class or turning in homework?



Do traditional grading polices perpetuate inequities according to the local board? Yep, direct quote:



So not hard to see that participation and homework submission have got to go. That said, I will acknowledge that the original materials do not talk specifically about race-based grading; that seems to be an implication on the part of the website that may be true but is not specifically mentioned as the criterion.

I read the article and I clicked on the links in it, and the article is garbage.

No one, ever, called for anything that could remotely be called race based grading. No one, ever, said that scores of black students had to be raised, and white students lowered. The article is fake news.

Even the homework issue was grossly distorted. What the back up material was noting is something that I observed 50 years ago when I was in school. If you grade on a 0-100 scale, with 90-80-70-60 cutoffs for letter grades, then the presence of a 0 grade grossly distorts the grade. If a teacher refuses to accept a late assignment, and gives it a 0, then a student who turns in three perfect scores on three assignments, but for whatever reason cannot finish one assignment on time, that person receives a C on the overall homework grade. It's dumb. It was dumb 50 years ago. It's dumb now.

The back up material didn't advocate not penalizing students for not doing homework. It didn't advocate not penalizing students for late homework. It said get rid of the zero. It's a good idea.

Meanwhile, most of the discussion was actually about recovering from the disastrous impact of remote instruction during the pandemic.

The article was just plain BS.

 

[catsmate]

I read the article and I clicked on the links in it, and the article is garbage.

No one, ever, called for anything that could remotely be called race based grading. No one, ever, said that scores of black students had to be raised, and white students lowered. The article is fake news.

<slippage for brevity>

The article was just plain BS.

This. But it appealed to, and supported, the OP's prejudices and so he accepted it, and attempted to spread the lies further.
I note he still hasn't accepted that he was fooled by deliberately manipulative lies; perhaps that would be too much self-awareness?

 

[Brainster]

Anyway, Brainster, the source you cited in the OP is weak, and doesn't support your OP very well. In general, I much prefer that people dig down to the primary sources, and see what they have to say, before posting claims about them.

A powerpoint deck is cited, but the provenance of the deck is not known. Have you at least read through the deck and seen if any of the slides actually support the claims being made? If so, why not report on that directly, and cut out the superfluous middleman-of-ill-repute?

A published paper(?) by one of the school's policymakers(?) is cited. Have you read the paper, and seen if it reflects the views and policies alleged in the second-hand report? If so, why not report on that directly?

Your probuttal is really no better than ST's rebuttal. The most important thing they have in common is they're both butt.

To repeat, I did not know the source was anything other than a small-town newspaper, which is why I didn't look into the source further. I did link to some of the material presented which at least backs up the main claims--that they are trying to reduce or eliminate grading based on attendance or submission of assignments, and that this is being done in the name of "Diversity, Equity and Inclusion." That this is code for "based on race" is the assumption of the writer, yes, but is it an unreasonable assumption?

Equalization of grades by race is absolutely a goal of the education profession, and should be. But the devil is always in the details. Thanks to Kendi and others like him, educators can no longer throw their hands up about Black students failing at a higher rate than Whites and Asians, because the racial difference in outcomes is prima facie evidence of racism.

Now some of the proposals mentioned at the linked sites are quite reasonable; for example allowing students to retake tests to improve their score. To me, the important thing is whether the kid eventually gets the material, not whether they got it at 9:00 AM on Friday for the test. It should also reduce testing anxiety.

If there is a reduction in the point value of homework, and if there is a substantial racial difference in doing homework, then average scores should rise a bit for the non-homework group. But it's just kicking the can down the road to the test. If you have one set of kids doing their assignments and another set not, how likely is it that the two sets will have equal test scores?

 

[Brainster]

I read the article and I clicked on the links in it, and the article is garbage.

No one, ever, called for anything that could remotely be called race based grading. No one, ever, said that scores of black students had to be raised, and white students lowered.

Well, I would hope that some people have said the highlighted. The other part is the one the education establishment can control, and there are some indications it is going on--the elimination of AP courses and magnet schools are just one indicator.

That said, I admit the headline is inflammatory and I should not have used it for the OP title, or at least added a question mark. My bad definitely there.