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Psychics and Missing People

KellyJ said:
I'll try you again in a bit.

So many good ideas flowing here.

I'm still a bit torn between having a clean site and the forum since this one exists.

I believe that I have caught up on older posts with questions for me or other items I need to comment on. If I forgot one, remind me, and accept my apology.

I'm taking a break from the PC...been on it all day long. I'll be back later on.

This is what it's all about...working together for a common cause.

Thank you all from the bottom of my heart. (not literally, of course!)
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HOly crap that was fast! You gotta give me time to turn my ringer on!

Ok, best times to call me are after 11:30pm CST or between 9am CST and 1:00pm CST.
 
Good, take a rest, Kelly. You've had a long day.

BTW, I've never been more proud to be part of the JREF family than today.

Kisses to the girls, and handshakes to the guys.

Bravo.
 
KellyJ said:
I'll try you again in a bit.

I'm still a bit torn between having a clean site and the forum since this one exists.
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Kelly, et al,

You should definitely have a forum at your new site. The kinds of things people will post there will be quite different from what is posted here.

BTW, you guys rule! If I had something worthwhile to offer, I would. Once it's up, maybe I'll join the forum.
 
ObscureReferenceMan said:
Kelly, et al,

You should definitely have a forum at your new site. The kinds of things people will post there will be quite different from what is posted here.

BTW, you guys rule! If I had something worthwhile to offer, I would. Once it's up, maybe I'll join the forum.
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I Agree. The JREF forums are a very well established and productive community, but while there is an overlap of intention between the JREF forum and a forum that would be on the new website, they are two different motivations and two different approaches.

I think a forum, properly moderated, on that site would be a very amazing thing, especially considering we could build an online community of those who have missing loved ones that would be not only productive and helpful, but well grounded.

It would be a very powerful forum to read.
 
KellyJ (and the rest here)--

I would like your permission (even though it is public) to print out this thread for use in two of my classes. Anyone who would prefer I not use their comments (I'll probably change names anyway, since something like "fowlsound" might be seen as distracting from the serious nature), please let me know (PM is fine).

Katachresis, I second your comment; this is a good thing to be part of.
 
Mercutio said:
KellyJ (and the rest here)--

I would like your permission (even though it is public) to print out this thread for use in two of my classes. Anyone who would prefer I not use their comments (I'll probably change names anyway, since something like "fowlsound" might be seen as distracting from the serious nature), please let me know (PM is fine).

Katachresis, I second your comment; this is a good thing to be part of.
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You have my permission as long as you change my name to "The Exhalted God-Like Hotness That Is David."
 
Fowlsound, CFLarsen, The_Fire, you guys just keep giving me more reasons to admire you all. KellyJ, I think you've come to the right place.

Roadtoad gave me an idea. I live in a border town, (Windsor, Ontario, North America's busiest crossing) and there's a truck-stop just around the corner from where I work. I'd be happy to put up a flier there, if you'd like. Not much, I know, but anything to help.
 
HeyLeroy said:
Fowlsound, CFLarsen, The_Fire, you guys just keep giving me more reasons to admire you all. KellyJ, I think you've come to the right place.

Roadtoad gave me an idea. I live in a border town, (Windsor, Ontario, North America's busiest crossing) and there's a truck-stop just around the corner from where I work. I'd be happy to put up a flier there, if you'd like. Not much, I know, but anything to help.
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Heh. I used to live in Detroit.

You should also contact the border patrol and ask if they will accept a photo of the missing person and watch for them.
 
Mercutio said:
KellyJ (and the rest here)--

I would like your permission (even though it is public) to print out this thread for use in two of my classes. Anyone who would prefer I not use their comments (I'll probably change names anyway, since something like "fowlsound" might be seen as distracting from the serious nature), please let me know (PM is fine).

Katachresis, I second your comment; this is a good thing to be part of.
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I don't have a problem with it. I am curious though, as to what type of class it is that this thread would be discussed.

On another interelated topic:

I sent my inquiry/request out to the families of the missing. I've had several positive responses and indications that stories will be forthcoming.
 
fowlsound said:
Heh. I used to live in Detroit.

You should also contact the border patrol and ask if they will accept a photo of the missing person and watch for them.
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Good idea. I have friends who work at Customs on this side of the border.
 
Web stuff

KellyJ,
Hello and welcome to the forum! As a father of three, I can only imagine what you've had to go through in the last few years. I'd love to help in any little way I can. Fowl, Larsen - I'm a graphic/web designer, so if there's anything I can help with, let me know. I'm less technically minded than creative - I know a little scripting (for forms, etc - just enough to be dangerous), but I've been a graphic designer for almost 20 years.

A note on the domain name - whatever you decide on, if someone thinks of another domain worth snapping up before someone else gets their hands on it (psychicsarelyingfilthyfraudsandshouldrotinthelowestdepthsofhell.com has a nice ring to it), you can always buy it, too, and redirect to the main site. Domains certainly are cheap enough now.
 
Okay, as soon as I replace an ink cartridge, we're in business.

Expect a report, Kelly, as soon as I can get something up and running.

Damn, I'm proud of this crowd.
 
Psychics are not the only ones who prey on these people, so I don't know if psychicpredators.com or anything with psychics in the title is a good idea.

The site should also touch on predatory private investigators, lawyers, media, etc.

I know as JREF members, and looking at the topic we are in and so on, we tend to focus more on paranormal frauds, but the web site in question is going to be focused on protecting these people from ALL frauds. Right?
 
As far as I understood, this website is specifically about the psychic frauds.
 
So I'm thinking about content a little bit here.

I'm kind of imagining a site that works in conjunction with Kelly's and other missing persons sites as a resource for support for

1. Persons that have a missing loved one and are considering whether to let psychic's help in the investigation or not.

Facts, informational articles in general about how psychics don't do anything useful, articles relating stories by victims of psychics, lots and lots of links to other good information already out there. Stuff aimed at the general public as an audience, and as family members of missing people as an audience.

and

2. Skeptics that wish to work as support for 1 by actively debunking psychics attempting to prey on 1, as well as doing some community work promoting the word in general that psychics are fakes.

Articles about debunking (how to kind of stuff) psychic detectives, perhaps. Simple test protocols, maybe? Sample letter templates for sending to news media, elected officials, police chiefs, etc, for use when news releases come out that "xxx psychic is currently working closely with the xxx police department on xxx case". Lots and lots of links to other good information out there, and to here.

Just kind of brainstorming here. Feel free to pick this all apart. Is the forum in support of audience 1 or 2? Or both?

Meg
 
Choice 1 seems most in line with what Kelly and I have talked about.

I think we should stick with that.;
 
Luke T. said:
Psychics are not the only ones who prey on these people, so I don't know if psychicpredators.com or anything with psychics in the title is a good idea.

The site should also touch on predatory private investigators, lawyers, media, etc.

I know as JREF members, and looking at the topic we are in and so on, we tend to focus more on paranormal frauds, but the web site in question is going to be focused on protecting these people from ALL frauds. Right?
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Luke: I thought the same as fowl, that the site was to be only about "psychics". And to expand a bit, psychics are being singled out here because unlike PIs and lawyers, -all- psychics are per definitions predators. Of course, I do understand that it could be a good thing to warn about the "bad apples" of other groups as well, but I would think that for now, let's focus on the worst of the worst, and see if we can put in that other stuff later.

And even though I agree that such a site could touch upon the dangers of f.ex. a bad PI, I think that as long as the main issue (i.e. 90% or more of the content) is about the dangers of psychics, this justifies a domain name with "psychic" in it.


Edited to put in quote from Luke, so it's clear who I'm responding to. And to fix some bad language.
 
KellyJ said:
I don't have a problem with it. I am curious though, as to what type of class it is that this thread would be discussed.
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The class attempts to use a particular approach to...changing the world. Your thread here will serve as an example of how one person can make a difference...and how much can be accomplished when that one person is able to get other knowledgeable people to offer their assistance.

(I can tell you more about this if you wish, but I would prefer PM, so as not to derail this thread.)
 
Hawk one said:
Luke: I thought the same as fowl, that the site was to be only about "psychics". And to expand a bit, psychics are being singled out here because unlike PIs and lawyers, -all- psychics are per definitions predators. Of course, I do understand that it could be a good thing to warn about the "bad apples" of other groups as well, but I would think that for now, let's focus on the worst of the worst, and see if we can put in that other stuff later.
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I agree with starting with the core. Later on the others can be added.

For future reference, does anyone know of any articles about the other scammers or a checklist of sorts that covers what to look for?

Meg also has some good ideas that I want to think about.
 
Mercutio said:
The class attempts to use a particular approach to...changing the world. Your thread here will serve as an example of how one person can make a difference...and how much can be accomplished when that one person is able to get other knowledgeable people to offer their assistance.
(I can tell you more about this if you wish, but I would prefer PM, so as not to derail this thread.)
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I don't want to derail the thread either, and appreciate your thoughtfulness in regards to that matter.

Assuming you are referring to me, (bolded text) I thank you for the honor, and respectfully defer it to my son. If it were not for him, I would not be doing this work. I know that wherever he is, he wholeheartedly approves.

I'm also quite happy with the way this has gone.

Maybe Sylvia (Ick) Browne did do something good, although not intentionally. Had it not been for researching her "work" on the Internet, I would not have come across the Million Dollar Challenge, and then this forum.

Cheers to all! :clap:
 
Mercutio said:
KellyJ (and the rest here)--

I would like your permission (even though it is public) to print out this thread for use in two of my classes.
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"For a price, Ugarte. For a price."

(Go ahead, I just wanted to quote Humphrey Bogart in "Casablanca"...)
 
Can I make a suggestion?

Can I please make a modest suggestion for the domain name?

How about Rational Action for Missing Persons.

It can be abbreviated to RAMP, which has several connotations - ramp up the effort, using a ramp to negotiate humps (hump = UK for bad times), and some others.
I agree with those saying that the mention of psychics should be withheld from the title - I think if I ever needed to find this kind of resource I would exclude 'psychic' from my search criteria.

Also - I'm about to send Tony Youens a PM now, to direct his attention here.
 
NOVA: Secrets of the Psychics--video featuring Randi

KellyJ and everyone:

If you don't already own this excellent NOVA epsiode featuring Randi and some of the world's best psychics of the time (mid seventies) consider purchasing a copy via the Amazon link below or via the Randi site.

It contains the section of the episode where Johnny Carson helped Randi debunk Uri Geller, and it has several scenes where Russia's best psychics of the time are exposed. One scene shows clearly how deceived the psychics themselves were--a real must-see.

Purchasing it would be like a high-five to Randi, and will help keep it in print. I've watched its sales level rise as some of us have gone in and reviewed it.

I think it shows what Randi is really about--helping people identify and avoid the tricks of these people. I've found nothing that SHOWS how psychics work better. I believe it's well worth the modest price to have it in your collection.

As I've recommended before on the forum, buy a copy and see if your local library will add it to their collection.

As I gradually revamp my website to promote critical thinking, I'm going to make it a featured recommendation. Remember, people will view a video who would never read one of Randi's books.

I'm for getting that video out there. ---Sherry A ("Mariah")

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/6304463189/sr=8-1/qid=1140785372/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-3907182-6318250?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance
 
I like the idea of calling the site/org RAMP. I would add that if a database of missing person files could be added, in PDF format, it would help get the message out further, ideally by making people aware of those missing. Either that, or link to those groups that already have flyers available, such as Kelly's done.

Meanwhile, let me see if I can contact some Bears I know. They might be willing to read through this, and offer some help, too.
 
Correction: NOVA: Secrets of the Psychics video featuring Randi. I was wrong. This video is from 1993, not the 70s as I put in the earlier post.
 
cabby said:
Can I please make a modest suggestion for the domain name?

How about Rational Action for Missing Persons.

It can be abbreviated to RAMP, which has several connotations - ramp up the effort, using a ramp to negotiate humps (hump = UK for bad times), and some others.
I agree with those saying that the mention of psychics should be withheld from the title - I think if I ever needed to find this kind of resource I would exclude 'psychic' from my search criteria.

Also - I'm about to send Tony Youens a PM now, to direct his attention here.
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Thanks for sending the PM, Cabby.

I liked RAMP, but www.ramp.com appears to be parked at godaddy.com. Darn!
 
Mariah said:
KellyJ and everyone:

If you don't already own this excellent NOVA epsiode featuring Randi and some of the world's best psychics of the time (mid seventies) consider purchasing a copy via the Amazon link below or via the Randi site.

It contains the section of the episode where Johnny Carson helped Randi debunk Uri Geller, and it has several scenes where Russia's best psychics of the time are exposed. One scene shows clearly how deceived the psychics themselves were--a real must-see.

Purchasing it would be like a high-five to Randi, and will help keep it in print. I've watched its sales level rise as some of us have gone in and reviewed it.

I think it shows what Randi is really about--helping people identify and avoid the tricks of these people. I've found nothing that SHOWS how psychics work better. I believe it's well worth the modest price to have it in your collection.

As I've recommended before on the forum, buy a copy and see if your local library will add it to their collection.

As I gradually revamp my website to promote critical thinking, I'm going to make it a featured recommendation. Remember, people will view a video who would never read one of Randi's books.

I'm for getting that video out there. ---Sherry A ("Mariah")

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/6304463189/sr=8-1/qid=1140785372/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-3907182-6318250?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance
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I think this would be good to have for another reason: We could loan it to a family who is sitting on the fence about this issue.

Thanks, Mariah.
 
Thanks, Kelly. Also, I should add that it was actually made in 1993, not in the mid-seventies, which I keep trying to tell CFLarsen, who just does NOT seem to get it!
 
Hi Kelly, re: Missing Children Notice Program

I got this today:

Hi Kevin,
Per you comments below, I agree that the PowerPoint presentation GSA provides for use in kiosks in the main lobby of GSA-owned Federal buildings throughout the nation should be easily viewed by those wishing to view the presentation.
The GSA building managers of GSA-owned buildings would probably be the best persons to address this type of concern to. I would suggest that you get in touch with the X Building manager, Michael xxxxxx at (xxx) xxx-xxxx or by email at xxxxxx.xxxxxxx@gsa.gov. He should be able to address the issue of how the kiosk is arranged in the xxx Building.
I've cc'd Mr. x in on this email.
I hope this helps. If you have any further comments and/or suggestions, especially regarding how to improve the GSA Missing Child Notice Program, please let me know.
Thanks.
Michael Saling
Information Technology Specialist
GSA Missing Child Notice Program Webmaster U.S. General Services Administration Public Buildings Service Heartland Region Kansas City, Missouri

(ETA: this is what is essentially shown 15 feet in the air:
http://r6.gsa.gov/pbs/kids/default-1024x768.asp )

I've emailed the local administator of the video screen, haven't heard back.

Also, I was able to post Jerald Gelb at the Shelter, and left my info, but haven't heard from the person in charge of the board yet either.

I'll work on both fronts again Monday.

Have a good weekend if we don't talk again.

Kevin
 
Roadtoad said:
I like the idea of calling the site/org RAMP. I would add that if a database of missing person files could be added, in PDF format, it would help get the message out further, ideally by making people aware of those missing. Either that, or link to those groups that already have flyers available, such as Kelly's done.

Meanwhile, let me see if I can contact some Bears I know. They might be willing to read through this, and offer some help, too.
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Unfortunately, a database of missing persons would be too monumental of a task. If you ever go to the NCMEC or NCMA sites, you'll think it astonishing the number of missing persons there. That, however, is a mere drop in the bucket. Because of the issue I mentioned yesterday in regards to LE not giving referrals to families when the report is taken, the majority of cases never show up on these sites.

For example, in my home state, Nebraska, there are approx. 700 open missing person's cases, but there are only 11 listings of missing persons shown on the NE pages for NCMA and NCMEC. They say that every 30 seconds in the USA a child disappears, and who knows how many adults.

Anyway, off the soap box now and back to the site ideas.

What I am thinking for starters consists of the following:

An introductory/purpose statement

Links to articles/papers debunking psychics, particularly as it relates to missing persons

Link to this forum

Liinks to worthy missing person's organization (You might be shocked to know that there are predators right here in the midst of our cause.)

A Steps to Take list for families of the missing just in case they have come across this site before some of the others

Am I missing something?

Oh, and going back to some things discussed earlier by Meg and others, an idea that is brewing is to have a brief online form that a family member can fill out if they want to discuss or refer a particular psychic to volunteers from this forum who could gently show them the error of their ways. I'm still thinking this one out.

One family I know has a person who handles all psychic inquiries. I believe they filter out the nutcases, but I don't know what they do about the others. I do suspect this person is a believer, so maybe they work with the psychic to gather info. Obviously, that is not the approach we would take.
 
Katachresis said:
Hi Kelly, re: Missing Children Notice Program

I got this today:

Hi Kevin,
Per you comments below, I agree that the PowerPoint presentation GSA provides for use in kiosks in the main lobby of GSA-owned Federal buildings throughout the nation should be easily viewed by those wishing to view the presentation.
The GSA building managers of GSA-owned buildings would probably be the best persons to address this type of concern to. I would suggest that you get in touch with the X Building manager, Michael xxxxxx at (xxx) xxx-xxxx or by email at xxxxxx.xxxxxxx@gsa.gov. He should be able to address the issue of how the kiosk is arranged in the xxx Building.
I've cc'd Mr. x in on this email.
I hope this helps. If you have any further comments and/or suggestions, especially regarding how to improve the GSA Missing Child Notice Program, please let me know.
Thanks.
Michael Saling
Information Technology Specialist
GSA Missing Child Notice Program Webmaster U.S. General Services Administration Public Buildings Service Heartland Region Kansas City, Missouri

(ETA: this is what is essentially shown 15 feet in the air:
http://r6.gsa.gov/pbs/kids/default-1024x768.asp )

I've emailed the local administator of the video screen, haven't heard back.

Also, I was able to post Jerald Gelb at the Shelter, and left my info, but haven't heard from the person in charge of the board yet either.

I'll work on both fronts again Monday.

Have a good weekend if we don't talk again.

Kevin
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If anyone is curious, one of the things that Kevin is doing is trying to involve his local homeless shelter in our Come Home program. He posted one of the campaign posters at the shelter and gave them information about the program.

http://www.projectjason.org/comehome.html

Thanks, Kevin!
 
KellyJ said:
The issues with attracting even more vermin needs to be dicussed. In my writings, I will make it clear that we are not going to become an agency that investigates psychic's claims. I can imagine it getting very out of hand. I will nip it in the bud by letting them know that their emails will be deleted. At the same time, I don't want to give the appearance of not being open to the possibility. This may keep fence sitters from becoming defensive towards us. That may buy time to dazzle them with logic and facts.

Here's my idea on the latter: I will encourage those persons to come here and post their claims. That is, if the members here are ok with me referring them here.

I would say something such as:

"We understand that many people believe that psychics are effective in solving crimes and finding missing people. Please keep in mind that the goal of this series is to help families understand techniques used by persons making these claims and make better decisions about the use of psychics.

Project Jason and its volunteers cannot act as a clearinghouse for persons claiming success in using paranormal means to locate missing persons. We will be unable to respond to emails or other correspondence sent to us from persons making these claims or persons offering information about or referrals to psychics.

We instead invite those persons to present their evidence to the members of the James Randi Education Foundation. They have a forum available for you to discuss your claims. http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=7 "

Would that be acceptable to the members and the foundation?
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I received word from a representative of the foundation that this is perfectly fine with them.

(This discussion was in relation to my blog series.)
 
Mariah said:
Thanks, Kelly. Also, I should add that it was actually made in 1993, not in the mid-seventies, which I keep trying to tell CFLarsen, who just does NOT seem to get it!
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You are walking a fine line. :p
 
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