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Pat Robertson... Really? Reallyy????

crimresearch

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crimresearch
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
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Just went to the log-in page and saw the banner ads... Today JREF is brought to you courtesy of those free thinkers at Regent University. And the front page topic on JREF itself is an 'MMA expert'


We can't call ******** in this forum, we have to 'play nice' with the Strorm Front contingent... but we have to wade through crap like that while we are here.

Penn and Teller must be rolling in their graves.
 
crimresearch said:
Just went to the log-in page and saw the banner ads... Today JREF is brought to you courtesy of those free thinkers at Regent University.
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I don't normally see any ads, as I've ticked the "remember me" box, but when I went there I saw a "Start 4 Life" advert aimed at pregnant women.

The topic of the sort of ads that non-members see has been brought up in the past; the JREF doesn't have a lot of control over what appears.

And the front page topic on JREF itself is an 'MMA expert'
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I'm not sure what the problem with that is. Can you explain?
 
If JREF is like most organization they probably run their ads through an intermediary and have little if any actual control over what ads are being shown. For the most part you're gonna see ads based on your browsing history at most places.
 
JoeBentley said:
If JREF is like most organization they probably run their ads through an intermediary and have little if any actual control over what ads are being shown. For the most part you're gonna see ads based on your browsing history at most places.
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Perhaps the JREF should stop being like most organizations, and give a little thought to the image they are portraying. Unless of course they think that any money is worth having regardless of the source.
 
Steve said:
Perhaps the JREF should stop being like most organizations, and give a little thought to the image they are portraying. Unless of course they think that any money is worth having regardless of the source.
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^^^^This.
 
Steve said:
Perhaps the JREF should stop being like most organizations, and give a little thought to the image they are portraying. Unless of course they think that any money is worth having regardless of the source.
Click to expand...

There's limit to everything like image, free service or control over ad providers.
 
crimresearch said:
And the front page topic on JREF itself is an 'MMA expert'
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Breach of rule 12 removed.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles


So...tell us exactly what is wrong with a topic on an "MMA expert"?

1) He's most definitely an expert, he competes at the highest levels of the sport, and has dedicated himself to mastering MMA. So calling him an expert is neither inaccurate nor offensive

2) In the article about him, he explicitly states that he rejects all the 'woo' surrounding martial arts, and is a long-time fan of James Randi in opposing woos

3) He's a known celebrity, with a decent following, who can help promote James Randi's work.

4) MMA is a legitimate sport...in fact, an extremely skillful and demanding sport. If it were a famous golfer, or a famous basketball player, would crimresearch be complaining? I doubt it...it seems to be specifically because he has some sort of issue with MMA (although given the vagueness of his comments, this may not be the case, and I certainly don't want another accusation of 'twisting his words')

So please...enlighten the rest of us. What exactly is 'wrong' or 'offensive' about an article that discusses an MMA expert who talks about rejecting martial arts woo, and states that he wants to work with the JREF to promote critical thinking? What is there in this that is objectionable?

Or have I (and others) somehow 'misinterpreted' your comments, and you actually meant "I think that having a lead article about an MMA expert who is helping support the JREF's work is a great thing"?


ETA: the banner ads issue has been raised multiple times before, the plain fact is that the JREF doesn't have much control over what content is displayed there.
 
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Wolfman said:
Edited by Cuddles: 
Edited quoted of moderated material.


So...tell us exactly what is wrong with a topic on an "MMA expert"?

1) He's most definitely an expert, he competes at the highest levels of the sport, and has dedicated himself to mastering MMA. So calling him an expert is neither inaccurate nor offensive

2) In the article about him, he explicitly states that he rejects all the 'woo' surrounding martial arts, and is a long-time fan of James Randi in opposing woos

3) He's a known celebrity, with a decent following, who can help promote James Randi's work.

4) MMA is a legitimate sport...in fact, an extremely skillful and demanding sport. If it were a famous golfer, or a famous basketball player, would crimresearch be complaining? I doubt it...it seems to be specifically because he has some sort of issue with MMA (although given the vagueness of his comments, this may not be the case, and I certainly don't want another accusation of 'twisting his words')

So please...enlighten the rest of us. What exactly is 'wrong' or 'offensive' about an article that discusses an MMA expert who talks about rejecting martial arts woo, and states that he wants to work with the JREF to promote critical thinking? What is there in this that is objectionable?

Or have I (and others) somehow 'misinterpreted' your comments, and you actually meant "I think that having a lead article about an MMA expert who is helping support the JREF's work is a great thing"?


ETA: the banner ads issue has been raised multiple times before, the plain fact is that the JREF doesn't have much control over what content is displayed there.
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Breach of rule 12 removed.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles


If you have a problem with Penn and Teller's episode exposing the Martial Arts for the woo-woo it is, take it up with them.

If you agree with Pat Robertson and what he stands for, then defend it here.
 
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If that were the case, then I'd be seeing porn, anti-war sites, porn, porn, kink, and progressive sites. :-}

I guarantee that this didn't come from my cache:
 

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zooterkin said:
I don't normally see any ads, as I've ticked the "remember me" box, but when I went there I saw a "Start 4 Life" advert aimed at pregnant women.

The topic of the sort of ads that non-members see has been brought up in the past; the JREF doesn't have a lot of control over what appears.


I'm not sure what the problem with that is. Can you explain?
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It just strikes me as odd that JREF is so concerned about 'the children' on some apocryphal library computer somewhere, that we can't reference Penn and Teller's show because of the auto-censor, but when it comes to stuff like that, it is shrugged off with a que sera, sera.

As far as the JREF 'image', and an association with professional TV sports culture goes, be it pounding someone in a ring, or any other steroid fueled spectacle... let's just say I'm skeptical about the benefits of the whole thing.
 
crimresearch said:
Just went to the log-in page and saw the banner ads... Today JREF is brought to you courtesy of those free thinkers at Regent University. And the front page topic on JREF itself is an 'MMA expert'


We can't call ******** in this forum, we have to 'play nice' with the Strorm Front contingent... but we have to wade through crap like that while we are here.

Penn and Teller must be rolling in their graves.
Click to expand...

While I am certainly willing to get butthurt about nothing at the drop of a hat, I must say that as a habitual user of ad-blocking web browser plugins, you seem to have a PEBKAC problem.
 
Steve said:
Perhaps the JREF should stop being like most organizations, and give a little thought to the image they are portraying. Unless of course they think that any money is worth having regardless of the source.
Click to expand...


Who better to take money from? Causes that JREF users widely detest waste money aiming ads at them. I'd be madder as the advertiser than as the site with the advertising. After all, Pat Robertson paid a company to put his ads in front of the people most likely to be interested in them. Instead, using the stupid metric of browsing history, the ad company is doing the exact opposite.

This being said, I never see 3rd party ads when I come to the Forum. I'm not sure why your experience is different.
 
Steve said:
Perhaps the JREF should stop being like most organizations, and give a little thought to the image they are portraying. Unless of course they think that any money is worth having regardless of the source.
Click to expand...

According to D.J. Grothe, the JREF adheres to best-practices in the field of nonprofit messaging.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=7887077#post7887077

The social science of donor appeals trumps the image portrayed by the JREF and how forum members might feel about it. It seems that we don't generate enough income to matter.

That's the biz.
 
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crimresearch said:
<SNIP>

If you have a problem with Penn and Teller's episode exposing the Martial Arts for the woo-woo it is, take it up with them.

If you agree with Pat Robertson and what he stands for, then defend it here.
Edited by Locknar: 
Moderated content removed.
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1. Did you actually read the post you are replying to?

2. If the martial arts bit is off-topic, why did you bring it up in the OP?

jalok
 
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crimresearch said:
It just strikes me as odd that JREF is so concerned about 'the children' on some apocryphal library computer somewhere, that we can't reference Penn and Teller's show because of the auto-censor, but when it comes to stuff like that, it is shrugged off with a que sera, sera.
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You seem to be a bit confused. You are lumping together completely different and unrelated issues. It is a fact that some web sites will be excluded by the software used by some schools if they contain certain words, and the JREF has taken the decision that, given their aim is education, they do not want to be in that position. Nevertheless, Penn and Teller's show can be referenced, and the name can even be spelt out in full in the Members Only part of the forum. The JREF does not have complete control over which adverts are shown; this has been raised as a concern by members more than once before. The JREF has made the decision that the benefits outweigh the possible appearance of endorsing certain brands of woo.

As far as the JREF 'image', and an association with professional TV sports culture goes, be it pounding someone in a ring, or any other steroid fueled spectacle... let's just say I'm skeptical about the benefits of the whole thing.
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Again, you are not answering the question at all, unless you think that the JREF should not publish endorsements from any professional sportsmen regardless of their outlook and opinions, which seems an extreme position. Did you actually read the article about the MMA artist?
 
Nova Land said:
This topic has come up at least a half dozen other times over the past 6 years. Anyone interested in reading previous discussions can click the forum ads tag at the top of this page. (Or you can click the link in this comment.)
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Although it should be noted that the first example complaining of inappropriate ads was actually an April Fool when precisely the sort of ads being complained of were put on the forum as a joke (two years before it happened for real).
 
crimresearch said:
If you have a problem with Penn and Teller's episode exposing the Martial Arts for the woo-woo it is, take it up with them.
Click to expand...


Comparing MMA to Martial Arts is like comparing... Olympic Wrestling to WWE Wrestling... (I can't really think of a good analogy, just believe me, they are different.)
 
theprestige said:
While I am certainly willing to get butthurt about nothing at the drop of a hat, I must say that as a habitual user of ad-blocking web browser plugins, you seem to have a PEBKAC problem.
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Yeah, my first thought was why don't you have ad-blocking installed.

What's PEBKAC?
 
applecorped said:
What's the limit in this case?

Mods?
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As FL:

Advertising on the Forum has nothing to do with the Mod Team so it's not actually a matter for what this section is meant to deal with - it's a JREF issue. I'll move this thread to the JREF section.
 
crimresearch said:
Penn and Teller must be rolling in their graves.
Click to expand...

Wait, Penn and Teller are dead?

And the front page topic on JREF itself is an 'MMA expert'
Click to expand...

A few people have asked, but you still don't seem to have answered why exactly you think this is a problem. The whole point of the interview is that he is fighting against the woo that exists in martial arts. Why would you consider that a bad thing?
 
Little control when using Google Ad Sense. Google tries to match ads to the subject of the page be it pro or anti woo. Click on the ad and the advertiser pays per click. Conversely JREF get some of that money. Or do like most do, ignore the ad. Or, turn JREF into a pay to use site, no ads. Simple.
 
crimresearch said:
Breach of rule 12 removed.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Cuddles


If you have a problem with Penn and Teller's episode exposing the Martial Arts for the woo-woo it is, take it up with them.

If you agree with Pat Robertson and what he stands for, then defend it here.
Click to expand...

That doesn't address what Wolfman wrote at all.
 
notheist said:
Little control when using Google Ad Sense. Google tries to match ads to the subject of the page be it pro or anti woo. Click on the ad and the advertiser pays per click. [...] Simple.
Click to expand...

Ads which don't really match the site are often the most effective. For example, someone looking for some "wooful" product might land on one of the JREF pages and, not being interested in learning the real facts about the product, will see an ad for the product and click on it.

I'd, of course, prefer that the woo-friendly visitor discover the truth, but, if they aren't interested in reality, at least they may help support the JREF by clicking on an ad.

-- Roger
 
crimresearch said:
If you have a problem with Penn and Teller's episode exposing the Martial Arts for the woo-woo it is, take it up with them.

If you agree with Pat Robertson and what he stands for, then defend it here.
Click to expand...

I think you may be a bit ignorant of MMA in general.

MMA has done more to dispel woo in one area faster and more completely than anything I can actually think of. It is a continuous and open MDC challenge that does not require lengthy negotiations on protocol. :D

One of my favorite "experiments" can be seen here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEDaCIDvj6I

The reality of these experiments hits hard!
 
OnlyTellsTruths said:
Comparing MMA to Martial Arts is like comparing... Olympic Wrestling to WWE Wrestling... (I can't really think of a good analogy, just believe me, they are different.)
Click to expand...

I'm not really sure I understand the analogy, since MMA is just one of many Martial Arts. Some Martial Arts can include a fair amount of woo, but that depends to a large degree on the teacher. Where one teacher may invoke Chi as the explanation for why something works, another may use biomechanics for the exact same technique.
 
zooterkin said:
I'm not really sure I understand the analogy, since MMA is just one of many Martial Arts. Some Martial Arts can include a fair amount of woo, but that depends to a large degree on the teacher. Where one teacher may invoke Chi as the explanation for why something works, another may use biomechanics for the exact same technique.
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I said it was a bad analogy in the quote! :D

Also, I was referring to MMA strictly in the UFC sense.

You take the good things from every different discipline, use what works, and you throw the rest away
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I like to think of it as ironic when the woo seller ads end up here. Surely it is the last place these companies wanted to advertise in return for the money they are paying for ad placement.
 
Maybe I'm missing the banners or something but I didn't see anything about Regent University.

Also...

If you have a problem with Penn and Teller's episode exposing the Martial Arts for the woo-woo it is, take it up with them.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that Penn and Teller have more important things to do than discuss martial arts with me. However...

1. I'm a big fan of Pen and Teller. I've seen them in person, talked to them once (which was awesome) and bought several of their videos and books.

2. I've seen the martial arts episode and though I have enjoyed and agreed with a lot of what they said in previous episodes, I didn't agree with this one.

3. I teach Karate and Ju-Jitsu, generally in a woo free atmosphere. :)

I disagree with their rationals for their conclusions and I think the episode was deliberately loaded with flakes in order to demonstrate their point in an artificial fashion.

Hopefully I don't have to agree with everything they say to be a fan. ;)
 
The current one on the index page looks suspect. It offers everyone a job paying good money. They do not specify doing what. However they charge you $29.95 per month.

Edit. Headline "Make money from home"
 
I have been getting adobe creative suite 6 for students and teachers for weeks now. My computer is boring. I think if you post outlandish stuff you make it angry.
 
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