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Gifford/Arizona shooter is a 9-11 Truther

Quiproquo said:
The idea that the idea...?

That makes no sense.
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People have ideas.
Some people are vilified for their ideas.
Some of these people believe that them being vilified for their ideas validates their ideas.

The validation of their ideas because of them being vilified for their ideas itself is an idea.

Like that knowing that one does know very little itself is knowledge.

I find it somewhat surprising that you as an expert in epistemology have difficulty understanding this as it is closely related to the above statement from epistemic logic.
 
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Quiproquo said:
The idea that the idea...?

That makes no sense.
Click to expand...


I can't tell if you don't understand the idea conveyed by that sentence, or you're actually having difficulty parsing the sentence itself. Do multiple appearances of the same word in a single sentence cause you difficulty?
 
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Cl1mh4224rd said:
I can't tell if you don't understand the idea conveyed by that sentence, or you're actually having difficulty parsing the sentence itself. Do multiple appearances of the same word in a single sentence cause you difficulty?
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It's all about patterns! :boxedin:
 
chipmunk stew said:
The idea that an idea can be expressed about an idea is absurd.
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recursion.jpg
 
dc1971 said:
Liberal talking heads, such AS????
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The right wing partisan fanatics sure like to use the word "liberal" like it's an insulting slur...

From the World English Dictionary

liberal

— adj
1. relating to or having social and political views that favour progress and reform
2. relating to or having policies or views advocating individual freedom
3. giving and generous in temperament or behaviour
4. tolerant of other people
5. abundant; lavish: a liberal helping of cream
6. not strict; free: a liberal translation
7. of or relating to an education that aims to develop general cultural interests and intellectual ability

— n
8. a person who has liberal ideas or opinions


Gee, what horrible people these "liberals". :rolleyes:
 
Bolded sentences R mine:

chipmunk stew said:
Evidence that ANY of them "killed in the name of "9/11 Truth""? I'm perfectly willing to look at it, and will accept it if you can produce it, but I've not seen it.

You haven't seen it because you, like a Truther, block it out.

And I mean evidence. Not "connecting the dots" the way the Truthers do.

Evidence beyond un-cited hearsay?

The murdering of innocent people is "hearsay"?! :boggled:

Truthers heard there were six dancing Israelis celebrating 9/11.

So!

Your standards of evidence are as fallacious as the Truthers'.

And your beligerent behavior is like the Truthers. Handwave much?

Example--
Me: There is no indication that explosives were used in any of the buildings.
Truther: Evidence please!

It's called shifting the burden of proof.

No **** Sherlock! :rolleyes:

I don't dispute that. Truthers use non sequiturs like this all the time.

And.....

None of what you said follows from my comment, or any other comment I've made regarding the shooter. You build strawmen as quickly and ineffectively as a Truther.

You know, you keep calling me a Truther, you're gonna turn out to be 1 of them if you keep protecting them for your sake.

You sound exactly like a Truther. Please explain the origin of this fevered fantasy that I am trying to deny you any such right?

And you sound like a sympathizer for murder!

Nonsense. I defend reason, standards of evidence, and facts, whether they're under assault by Truthers or by witch-hunters like you.

You can't reason your way out of a paper bag, wanna be defender of Truthers. I'm a "witch hunter"? Excuse me, I didn't kill a 9 yr. little girl in Arizona.
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For the record, I still stand by my opinion that Truthers are the real murderers. Chipmunk, I have no quarrel with you, but it seems to me you have 1 with me. Dude, politics are a bitch!
 
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From Loughner's own stuff posted online, we can see recited rhetoric from several conspiracy cults, including 911 cults.

Some of his friends have stated that he was 911 inside job believer, amongst other common conspiracy cult beliefs. I doubt they are lying and making that part up just to slander 911 cults.

Clearly the guy was another one of these CT nuts running around these days, that has bought into many anti-government CTs he found online including 911 CTs.

Considering that these CT cults, run around daily, trying to feed anyone that will listen, a steady diet of paranoid and delusions, including making threats and calls for violence of the sort commited on Saturday.

I don't buy that there is no link to these CT cults, 911 or otherwise, when one of their very own minions, pumped up on their rhetoric, goes out and commits the very acts of violence they call for.
 
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The Healing Power of Christ in action, Tucson-style:

The Westboro Baptist Church are planning to protest the at the funerals of victims of the shooting. One would hope they'd be protesting the violence of the shootings and send a message of peace... but no:

They were planning to protest at the funerals of 9-year old Christina Taylor Green and f Judge John Roll, with messages such as 'God Sent the Shooter' and that this is God's punishment for an 'idolatrous America'.

I found this message to Christina on their website, godhatesfags.com (that's the actual url)

I've posted them as spoilers so you don't have to read them. Warning, they're very disturbing.

You ruined that child and put her in the cross hairs of a raging mad God!! You raised her in the Catholic Pedophile Monster - priests rape children!! You taught her idolatry all of her life, inside and outside of that whorehouse that you call a church. You just finished your season of idols ending with Christmas. God calls your religion "vain" - empty of His truth.


You raised her on lies and broke her moral compass! God says, "no sodomy; it is abomination!" but you say, "it's okay to be gay!" She is better off dead than to grow up being pumped full of more lies and more rebellion at your hands to bring down more of God's wrath onto her head. God cut this child off! Mourn for your sins! Obey or Perish!


And their message to Gabrielle Giffords:
WBC to picket the location of Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords "Congress on the Corner." Ms. Giffords is in a lot of trouble with the Lord her God. She had the audacity to stand before Congress and read aloud the 1st amendment to the Constitution in one breath and then in the next breath she voted to pass laws to shut down the 1st amendment rights of WBC! Then, she thinks that she can come out to the sidewalks (where she says that others may not be), and hold her a "Congress on the Corner". NO, Congresswoman Giffords, it is not "Congress on the corner" - it is GOD on the Corner. You have received your very own GodSmack. You not only tried to shut up the servants of the Living God, but you live in adultery! God said divorce + remarrige = adultery.


He is not your husband! You are married to another woman's husband - shame on you! Gabrielle Giffords proudly promotes fags, baby-killing, and sin. As she fights for her life there is NO thought of repentance! God sent the shooter to repay you for your sins! Praise His holy name for His Righteous Judgements!!


They've been persuaded not to do that in exchange for simply spreading their loving messages on the nationally syndicated Mike Gallagher show.

Other highlights of these religious nutbars are their protests at the funerals of American soldiers KIA, with signs reading “Thank God for IEDs,” “Pray for More Dead Soldiers” and “God Killed Your Son.”

Regarding 9/11 they have hoisted signs with slogans 'Thank God for 9/11' and 'God Hates America'.

Why do I bring this up? Partly to show just how malicious and mean-spirited people can be, especially when they hold extremist views; partly to demonstrate that cultish groups which base their beliefs on hatred, fear and paranoia are not limited just to 9/11 Conspiracy nuts, but include other types of nuts and berries loons as well.
And forget about the lone wolf - this is a group insanity activity. These messages, like their counterparts emanating from the 9/11 Truther cult, are like poison for the mind and soul. They are destructive and evil.

Here are some photographic samples of their 'peaceful' messages.... the Prince of Peace must be spinning in his ...well, wherever he is he would not be amused...

westboro.jpg


http://www.flickr.com/photos/26806952@N08/4890564331/
 
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Of course these Westboro cult kooks don't think they are crazy either. They also like to play this game, making a mockery over tragedies and people losing their lives. And they do so all under the guise of want to spread their delusions and "awaken" us all to their "truth".

The exact same game as 911 cults....:rolleyes:

It makes this whole thing even more sickening...
 
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alienentity said:
They were planning to protest at the funerals of 9-year old Christina Taylor Green and f Judge John Roll, with messages such as 'God Sent the Shooter' and that this is God's punishment for an 'idolatrous America'

...snip...

They've been persuaded not to do that in exchange for simply spreading their loving messages on the nationally syndicated Mike Gallagher show.
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I'm inclined to believe they canceled it not because they got to talk on the radio but rather because they realized that there are a great many armed people in Arizona and these armed and angry folks wouldn't be happy to see someone protesting the funeral of that sweet little girl.

A few months ago the Westboro loons had their tires slashed during one of their protests. They had to drive around trying multiple store before they found someone who would help them. I believe that was the first step in what's going to be an escalating series of violent acts against them. When these acts reach their inevitable and bloody peak Phelps won't mourn the death of his family members, but rather he will revel in the attention and probably use the pictures of his dead family during his next protest.

In spite of my hatred of Phelps I would view these killings as a bad thing. I just can't think of a way that regular people can prevent them.
 
The Platypus said:
Of course these Westboro cult kooks don't think they are crazy either. They also like to play this game, making a mockery over tragedies and people losing their lives. And they do so all under the guise of want to spread their delusions and "awaken" us all to their "truth".

The exact same game as 911 cults....:rolleyes:

It makes this whole thing even more sickening...
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It seems that free speech is what they want others to pay the price for so they can insult those who died.
What a sick bunch of creeps.
Betcha the head honcho hides behind his 'cult' members
 
Dragonrock said:
I'm inclined to believe they canceled it not because they got to talk on the radio but rather because they realized that there are a great many armed people in Arizona and these armed and angry folks wouldn't be happy to see someone protesting the funeral of that sweet little girl.

A few months ago the Westboro loons had their tires slashed during one of their protests. They had to drive around trying multiple store before they found someone who would help them. I believe that was the first step in what's going to be an escalating series of violent acts against them. When these acts reach their inevitable and bloody peak Phelps won't mourn the death of his family members, but rather he will revel in the attention and probably use the pictures of his dead family during his next protest.

In spite of my hatred of Phelps I would view these killings as a bad thing. I just can't think of a way that regular people can prevent them.
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One thing I support are Canada's hate speech laws. At some point, if you want to avoid violent confrontation, you have to put a muzzle on this kind of stuff.
These people need to have their wings clipped before some vigilante does it using lethal force.
 
alienentity said:
One thing I support are Canada's hate speech laws. At some point, if you want to avoid violent confrontation, you have to put a muzzle on this kind of stuff.
These people need to have their wings clipped before some vigilante does it using lethal force.
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When people talk about banning "hate speech" I always think of Wesley Snipes' line from Demolition Man, "You can't take away people's right to be (butt)holes." I also have an admittedly non-skeptical view of the importance of free speech. I can't prove that laws banning specific types of speech are the start of a slippery slope, but I believe that they are.

People like Phelps are their own worst enemy and they knowingly put themselves and their children in danger. In my opinion, they do it with the hope that some form of violence against them can be used to support their paranoid preachings.
 
Dragonrock said:
When people talk about banning "hate speech" I always think of Wesley Snipes' line from Demolition Man, "You can't take away people's right to be (butt)holes." I also have an admittedly non-skeptical view of the importance of free speech. I can't prove that laws banning specific types of speech are the start of a slippery slope, but I believe that they are.

People like Phelps are their own worst enemy and they knowingly put themselves and their children in danger. In my opinion, they do it with the hope that some form of violence against them can be used to support their paranoid preachings.
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Gotcha. Canada, as I say, hasn't done too badly thus far.
We have a Human Rights Commission which can investigate complaints, and laws if criminality is alleged.

I think in the case of this church, such a body could, for example, levy a fine against them, or take other punitive measures to discourage them.

It seems to work much the same way our ordinary bylaws do to contain non-criminal misbehavior.

As always we try to find a balance of rights, and in particular we need to respond to complaints of discrimination and harassment. Nothing new, really.

'Canadian Human Rights Commission

The Canadian Human Rights Commission administers the Canadian Human Rights Act.[8] Section 3 of the Act prohibits discrimination based on "race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, age, sex, sexual orientation, marital status, family status, disability and conviction for which a pardon has been granted." Section 13(1) addresses the issue of hate speech. The section states:
It is a discriminatory practice for a person or a group of persons acting in concert to communicate telephonically or to cause to be so communicated, repeatedly, in whole or in part by means of the facilities of a telecommunication undertaking within the legislative authority of Parliament, any matter that is likely to expose a person or persons to hatred or contempt by reason of the fact that that person or those persons are identifiable on the basis of a prohibited ground of discrimination.
Section 13(2) makes clear that posting hateful or contemptuous messages to the Internet is prohibited. Section 54(1) allows a Canadian Human Rights Tribunal to order a respondent to cease any discriminatory practice, to compensate the victim where the discrimination was wilful or reckless by an amount not exceeding $20,000, and to pay a penalty of not more than $10,000.'
 
Dragonrock said:
I'm inclined to believe they canceled it not because they got to talk on the radio but rather because they realized that there are a great many armed people in Arizona and these armed and angry folks wouldn't be happy to see someone protesting the funeral of that sweet little girl.

A few months ago the Westboro loons had their tires slashed during one of their protests. They had to drive around trying multiple store before they found someone who would help them. I believe that was the first step in what's going to be an escalating series of violent acts against them. When these acts reach their inevitable and bloody peak Phelps won't mourn the death of his family members, but rather he will revel in the attention and probably use the pictures of his dead family during his next protest.

In spite of my hatred of Phelps I would view these killings as a bad thing. I just can't think of a way that regular people can prevent them.
Click to expand...

If ever there was needed a church burning.....
 
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