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Are the Democrats out of touch with the average American?

He's just telling people what they want to hear, he doesn't have solutions.

The Democrats are doing the equivalent of telling overweight people that if they want to lose weight, they need to move more and/or eat less.

Trump is telling them that they can do what they want and still lose weight if they "do this one simple thing".

Trump has said that he will reduce prices and make people better off and only "others" will have to pay the price. It's utter garbage but people would rather cling to the fantasy than to face up to reality.
"The Republicans want to win, the Democrats want to be right." Spark of truth.
 
"The Republicans want to win, the Democrats want to be right." Spark of truth.
The thing is that if you get in with empty promises like the Republicans, you can't govern and can't deliver. Now this isn't a problem for the Republicans, many of whom aren't interested in governing and most of the rest want to see everything burn. Democrats OTOH do seem interested in governing, however ineptly.
 
I don't have a solution to this. The people Trump captured are not easy to reach via social media, podcasts etc. The strawmen arguments and conspiracy theories were entertaining. "They are eating our pets." Or, maybe just attention grabbing. We have none of that. Just light hearted poking fun at how stupid MAGA voters were.

Long before Trump, the people that became MAGA hated government. And always will. Probably a good 20-30% of voters. Those are not the people you even address in 2026. But Harris was mostly right in putting a positive future as a goal. The lost people are not going to ever look for anything bright. There is a deep grudge and pessimism that will never disappear for them.
Then, social media. Your platform issues need to be so short that they can be included in social media post. Not this slightly complex housing plan that harris offered. Have a Jimmy Carter building affordable housing.
 
Which would be fine, except a large number of people voted for Trump against their own self interest because they weren't willing to understand how his tax and tariffs policies would actually affect them.

They weren't told.

Propaganda wins elections.

Billionaires (and massive corporate entities) own media.
 
Can anyone actually say what defines 'the average american"? I don't mean an aggregate of individual census data points, like that thing that went around about the "average american" being a 5,4' brunette from California. For the purposes of this conversation, what is "the average American"?

Is it an income range, a job type, family composition, how religious they are, etc?
The average American is a frictionless sphere 1.6 meters in diameter, capable of travelling at light speed in a vacuum, conductive to electricity, and sufficiently dense to sink in water. The freezing point of the average American is -10 C, and the boiling point is 103.008101 C. An average American has a pH balance of 9, is Presbyterian, and doesn't care for badminton.
 
How out of touch is Biden with reality, not to mention the average American? Believe it or not, he still thinks his big mistake was dropping out of the race after the June debate debacle:

Biden and some of his aides still believe he should have stayed in the race, despite the rocky debate performance and low poll numbers that prompted Democrats to pressure him to drop out. Biden and these aides have told people in recent days that he could have defeated Trump, according to people familiar with their comments. . . .

The linked article goes on to pour some cold water on the idea in the form of polling that shows that Kamala actually did quite well among late deciders. Her problem was that Biden had put her into too deep a hole to recover.
 
How out of touch is Biden with reality, not to mention the average American? Believe it or not, he still thinks his big mistake was dropping out of the race after the June debate debacle:



The linked article goes on to pour some cold water on the idea in the form of polling that shows that Kamala actually did quite well among late deciders. Her problem was that Biden had put her into too deep a hole to recover.
I think it was just timing. If Biden had dropped out two months earlier I think Harris would have done better.
 
I think it was just timing. If Biden had dropped out two months earlier I think Harris would have done better.
Better? Maybe. But she still would have lost. She's a bad candidate. That's why she tanked in the 2020 primary.

But Joe has no business running in 2024. Hell, he had no business running in 2020. He wasn't up to the job even back then, but it became impossible to hide after his 2024 debate.
 
I'm going to ruin the mystery. Norman, like me, is an Australian and therefore cannot be a member of the American Democratic Party. And all you have to do to work that out is click on his Location.
Aww... Spoiler alert!
I'm pretty sure we all got that already.
Hard not to.

The point that follows is many of us international posters get comments about how we are sick, sad Democrat liberal commies for our views, and yah boo sucks to be a Democrat right now, should we agree with a couple of the Democrat policies. Our accusers fail to notice we are not associated with the Democrats in any way and never could be, are not a member or supporter of that party, are not registered to vote in the USA, and are not even US citizens. We are passers-by outside your window looking at you on the inside pulling ugly faces at us for not being in their with you. Considering half of your family just decided to empty all the trash-cans and chamber-pots onto the lounge-room rug, those displays of contempt from inside for those outside don't equate to a warm welcome to visit.
Okay cool. Just making sure.
Well, thanks. I guess.
 
Are 49% voters still convinced of trickle down?
 
The point that follows is many of us international posters get comments about how we are sick, sad Democrat liberal commies for our views, and yah boo sucks to be a Democrat right now, should we agree with a couple of the Democrat policies. Our accusers fail to notice we are not associated with the Democrats in any way and never could be, are not a member or supporter of that party, are not registered to vote in the USA, and are not even US citizens. We are passers-by outside your window looking at you on the inside pulling ugly faces at us for not being in their with you. Considering half of your family just decided to empty all the trash-cans and chamber-pots onto the lounge-room rug, those displays of contempt from inside for those outside don't equate to a warm welcome to visit.
Cry me a river. The comment of yours that I responded to just shows that you don't have to be an American to be just as out of touch with the American majority, and as condescending, as the Democrats in (and not in) the thread.
 
Are the Democrats out of touch? Of course they are. The proof is not that they lost, but that they are surprised that they lost.
 
Are the Democrats out of touch? Of course they are. The proof is not that they lost, but that they are surprised that they lost.
The 3 battleground states were heavily involved with MAGA events, pandemic events and all that. That part was not surprising. Slightly surprsising was low turnout in states where Harris would win. They have been reminded over and over that only the electoral college matters. If it were a popular election, Trump would have lost. They would have shown up.
49.7%[2]48.4%
[th]
Percentage​
[/th]​
That is what we got, a "win" by 1.3%. That number was not predictable. It could have been much smaller, or none, if Republicans had not thrown out voters for 4 years that did not bother to show up at some office with birth certificate and re-register.
 
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If it were a popular election, Trump would have lost. They would have shown up.
If it were a popular election, Trump would have campaigned differently too. So it makes no sense to project what you think would have happened if only Harris had acted differently but Trump did everything the same. Why would he?
 
If it were a popular election, Trump would have campaigned differently too. So it makes no sense to project what you think would have happened if only Harris had acted differently but Trump did everything the same. Why would he?
Which of course side steps the point being made.
 
That is what we got, a "win" by 1.3%. That number was not predictable. It could have been much smaller, or none, if Republicans had not thrown out voters for 4 years that did not bother to show up at some office with birth certificate and re-register.
People are still beating that dead horse? In Georgia, which has a Republican governor and a Republican secretary of state and a voter ID law that caused much fainting among Democrats, voting was up 270,000 over 2020, which itself was up over 850,000 compared to 2016.
 
If it were a popular election, Trump would have campaigned differently too. So it makes no sense to project what you think would have happened if only Harris had acted differently but Trump did everything the same. Why would he?
No. There was only one race Trump could have run and won. This was it. It had to be those 3 states that flipped because...Biden caused inflation...because Biden did not punish Jews...because Biden "opened the border."
 
Counterfactual speculation. Not worth much.
This was the race Trump won. This and two states. The rest were not going to change, except Georgia in 2020 was a bit of a fluke. I still insist, Trump could only win by electoral college. Because voters in blue state know this.
Detrail
More people showed up for Harris than Biden. In 2020 Trump was turning into a loser. Then all of a sudden fear of mexicans and a woman president increased Trump turnout. And only by less than 1%. Trump was able to sew hatred effectively. Very hard work.
The same people hated Hillary. Even the same less than 1%, though.
 
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More people showed up for Harris than Biden. In 2020 Trump was turning into a loser. Then all of a sudden fear of mexicans and a woman president increased Trump turnout. And only by less than 1%. Trump was able to sew hatred effectively. Very hard work.
The same people hated Hillary. Even the same less than 1%, though.
So what's your point? Democrats were in touch with this, expected to lose, and are not particularly surprised that they did lose?
 
Are 49% voters still convinced of trickle down?
Evidently 49.9% of registered voters prefer trickle down economics over the 48.4% that didn't. You'd be hard pressed to argue that Bidenomics was anything other than a disaster for consumers. The results speak for themselves.
 
Evidently 49.9% of registered voters prefer trickle down economics over the 48.4% that didn't. You'd be hard pressed to argue that Bidenomics was anything other than a disaster for consumers. The results speak for themselves.
Date-stamped and copied so that you can back this up with proof in 6-12 months after Trump fixes this "on day one".
 
Evidently 49.9% of registered votersprefer trickle down economics over the 48.4% that didn't. You'd be hard pressed to argue that Bidenomics was anything other than a disaster for consumers. The results speak for themselves.
They prefer the myth of trickle down economics - the reality of it, not so much.

And it's voters who bothered to turn out, we don't know about the 34% who didn't vote.
 
Evidently 49.9% of registered voters prefer trickle down economics over the 48.4% that didn't. You'd be hard pressed to argue that Bidenomics was anything other than a disaster for consumers. The results speak for themselves.
What exactly does "prefer trickle down economics" mean in this context? Would they like to see the wealth of the billionaires 'trickle down' to them? Or do they actually believe the idea?
The idea has been in vogue since Reagan, and wealth always 'trickled up'. Bidenomics are far from unique in this respect.
 
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Evidently 49.9% of registered voters prefer trickle down economics over the 48.4% that didn't. You'd be hard pressed to argue that Bidenomics was anything other than a disaster for consumers. The results speak for themselves.
He made the mistake of naming it ever Bidenomics. It was a plan that provided no immediate relief, it was a long term plan that created some jobs. The actual economy under Biden was a post pandemic world economy with a small period of inflation. Nothing any president could do anything about. There were small things: child tax credit.
 
They prefer the myth of trickle down economics - the reality of it, not so much.

And it's voters who bothered to turn out, we don't know about the 34% who didn't vote.
The reality is, it's not so much as trickling on us as "◊◊◊◊ in your mouth" economics. And we have a bunch of psoters here who are still telling us its ice cream.
 
Evidently 49.9% of registered voters prefer trickle down economics over the 48.4% that didn't. You'd be hard pressed to argue that Bidenomics was anything other than a disaster for consumers. The results speak for themselves.
I deny the premise.

The Trump campaign downplayed tax cuts for the rich in favor of immigrant bashing and anti-trans nonsense. For better or worse, the guy who votes for kicking out the brown people cannot really be said to "prefer trickle-down economics". Especially since a big part of the bigot platform is keeping out immigrants to keep American wages up...
 
As others have pointed out, we need a definition of what an average American is. I don't think you can come up with a single "average American". We are not a monolith. I think it is more appropriate to say that the Democrats have lost touch with one of their traditional bases, white working class men.
 
As others have pointed out, we need a definition of what an average American is. I don't think you can come up with a single "average American". We are not a monolith.
Speak for yourself! The Organization Of American Monoliths, Obelisks, Megaliths, Menhirs, Sarsens, Stelae, and Standing Stones (OOAMOMMSSASS) represents many Americans who are just as good as you are, buddy, and we'll thank you to remember it.
 
No, no. It's the white working class men who have lost touch with the Democrats.
If only the Democrats could meet the reasonable requests of 1) inexhaustible coal mines and 2) compelling everyone to use coal. But those ivory-tower eggheads, with their "physics" and "reality"!
 
Speak for yourself! The Organization Of American Monoliths, Obelisks, Megaliths, Menhirs, Sarsens, Stelae, and Standing Stones (OOAMOMMSSASS) represents many Americans who are just as good as you are, buddy, and we'll thank you to remember it.

I applied for OOAMOMMSSASS but my brother black balled me, otherwise I would be a member.
 
As others have pointed out, we need a definition of what an average American is. I don't think you can come up with a single "average American". We are not a monolith. I think it is more appropriate to say that the Democrats have lost touch with one of their traditional bases, white working class men.
Again, we run into the problem of how we define it. What is "working class"? Is it someone with a type of job? Someone without a college degree? A certai nincome level?

Usually, when the media or politicians use it, they mean white guys in the trades. I think we can all agree that is a poor definition.

I think we can agree on 3 things about the working class, no matter what specific definition

1) White guys are still a significant demographic in it, but they aren't as significant as they used to be. In fact, depending on how you defne working class, white guys aren't even the majority anymore.

2) Democrats aren't reaching them. and not just the white guys.

3) Republicans are telling them really effective lies.
 
Do working class men cheer harder when they are given a check or when the investor class is given a check? Because I've worked alongside working class men all of my adult life and I've never heard the kind of sophisticated analysis to justify boosting the rich people to help us in the long run. I think if the Trump admin gave everyone a stimulus check those working class men would use that as evidence that Trump cares. And if not, he still cares and he's smart with money because all Dems care about is a sugar high and boosting welfare queens, etc.
 
On the main question, it's not that democrats are out of touch. They simply refuse to engage where voters are. Immigration for example. You can drag out any graph or study showing levels where immigration are optimal but you have to concede and acknowledge the costs. Because the swing states aren't overly burdened, they keep their views in line with what they believe their voting block would like. They sloganeer on the positives, on the charity of the average American, but ignore those that experience issues. Worse yet, they label them xenophobic, racist etc.

Selectively some here want to say "because they are!!" And that's why you lose people. If trade workers complain about downward wage pressure, I don't see much sympathy. Watch those same people cry bloody murder at expanding h1b visas.

We have to acknowledge everyone is going to advocate for their own self interest. There is nothing wrong with thay.
“All politics is local.” - Former House Speaker Tip O’Neil
 
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