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AE911T Taking It to SCOTUS

Mark F

Graduate Poster
Mark F
Joined
Aug 4, 2012
Messages
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I happened upon this earlier today and have not had a chance or enough desire to wade through it, but it seems AE911T are intent on taking their case of the NIST is naughty (therefore 9/11 was an inside job) all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court.

First there's this hour long video from Nov 22, 2023:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pcwQlzZKhC4&ab_channel=AE911Truth

Worth noting in the description it says:
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit ruled that AE911Truth doesn't have standing in our case against NIST and has claimed that federal agency reports are not required to be accurate or scientifically sound, as long as they meet statutory requirements.

AE911Truth has now filed a Petition for Rehearing En Banc seeking to have the entire set of active eligible judges who sit on the US Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit to review the three-judge appellate panel's decision in our case.

In this episode of 9/11 Free Fall, AE911Truth's attorney, Mick Harrison, joins Andy Steele to go over the details of this important case, and how AE911Truth intends to move forward and fight this breathtaking ruling, as well as the implications of this ruling if it's not reversed.
Click to expand...

Then a week ago on December 22, 2023 they posted this video;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dXlqMFIhdKs&ab_channel=AE911Truth

From the description;
A federal court has ruled in our case against NIST that U.S. government agencies are allowed to issue knowingly false reports, and that their reports are NOT required to be scientifically accurate.

Now we are taking our case to the United States Supreme Court to challenge this Orwellian logic!

In this episode of 9/11 Free Fall, host Andy Steele is joined by AE911Truth Chairman, Roland Angle, and the attorneys involved in the Supreme Court filing, Mick Harrison, and John M. Clifford, to delve into the details of not only the case itself but also the process ahead. And they’ll discuss the implications of this important case for the entire country.

Our case is one that not only affects the World Trade Center issue but any issue in which science sits at the center. We are now not only fighting for 9/11 justice but for the future of the United States!

As we prepare to wage this important battle in the new year, we are holding our year-end fundraiser.

We need to raise $5,000 by December 31
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That last part was a real shocker. Never saw it coming :D

Not having the intestinal fortitude right now to sit through 2 hours of AE911T propaganda, has anyone else looked at this yet?

Thoughts (beyond the usual)? I suspect there is really absolutely nothing new here and this is just the latest end of year fundraising special that will go nowhere and quietly fizzle out.
 
"A federal court has ruled in our case against NIST that U.S. government agencies are allowed to issue knowingly false reports, and that their reports are NOT required to be scientifically accurate."

I think it's quite likely that AE911T have misinterpreted the ruling.
 
Orphia Nay said:
"A federal court has ruled in our case against NIST that U.S. government agencies are allowed to issue knowingly false reports, and that their reports are NOT required to be scientifically accurate."

I think it's quite likely that AE911T have misinterpreted the ruling.
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Indeed, it is just lawyers playing with words.
 
Orphia Nay said:
"A federal court has ruled in our case against NIST that U.S. government agencies are allowed to issue knowingly false reports, and that their reports are NOT required to be scientifically accurate."

I think it's quite likely that AE911T have misinterpreted the ruling.
Click to expand...

You know, I have not actually read the ruling, and I'm no gambler, but I would be willing to bet that isn't what the ruling says.

I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
 
The clue is in the quote included in the OP:
The U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit ruled that AE911Truth doesn't have standing in our case against NIST and has claimed that federal agency reports are not required to be accurate or scientifically sound, as long as they meet statutory requirements.
Click to expand...
Meet statutory requirements.
They do not need to be 100% perfect either at the time or bulletproof against later improving understanding.

I'll also bet that the hyperbole "are not required to be accurate or scientifically sound," is AE911's exaggeration which is not reflected in the language of the court's finding. I expect (a) someone will find the text of the finding sooner or later and (b) gullible supporters will continue to fall for the nonsense.

The appeal will go nowhere. It will be interesting to see how the attempt to go before SCOTUS is dealt with. SCOTUS is currently a bit busy avoiding dealing with appeals resulting from several states barring Trump, D from the 2024 primary ballots.
 
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SpitfireIX said:
Here is AE911T's petition for rehearing en banc, which has the appellate opinion appended.
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Thank you.

So if we wade through the legalese:

Nothing has changed. AE911 once again loses in legal procedural issues and fails to gain any review of the technical merits of their claims for CD.

1) AE911 does not have standing to press their claim.
2) NIST has met its obligation to present a report identifying the probable cause of collapse.
3) NIST is under no obligation to present a report that AE911 agrees with.

And
4) Expressed in polite legalese- "Get lost AE911"!
 
The court ruled that NIST had complied with their responsibility and AE911 hadn't prove their contention and didn't like the conclusion nor how the conclusion played out. AE911 has not proved their case in any of the legal proceedings nor will they win any case even IF the SCOTUS agrees to hear the case, IMO
 
bknight said:
The court ruled that NIST had complied with their responsibility and AE911 hadn't prove their contention and didn't like the conclusion nor how the conclusion played out. AE911 has not proved their case in any of the legal proceedings nor will they win any case even IF the SCOTUS agrees to hear the case, IMO
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Sure but I suggest it is better to NOT conflate the procedural and technical issues of merit.
"
"AE911 hadn't prove[sic] their contention"

"AE911 has not proved their case".

The only "contention" or "case" they have been making is about their right to be heard. They have NEVER got to the stage where the technical merits of the case for CD are considered.
 
ozeco41 said:
Sure but I suggest it is better to NOT conflate the procedural and technical issues of merit.
"
"AE911 hadn't prove[sic] their contention"

"AE911 has not proved their case".

The only "contention" or "case" they have been making is about their right to be heard. They have NEVER got to the stage where the technical merits of the case for CD are considered.
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Au Contraire
Informative video.
ASCE worked "hand in hand" (aided and abetted) the NIST to
conceal evidence in 9-11 investigations.

https://www.ae911truth.org/news/963-how-the-asce-abetted-the-9-11-cover-up


Video link https://youtu.be/X_U6v7MqDzE
 
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At this point it should be obvious AETruth is a scam. Yes, I know it has always been a scam, but this move underlines just how uninterested they are in getting to "the truth".

A&ETruth has raised enough money over the years to conduct multiple investigation of various avenues both historical and technical. They have to date done nothing but make wild claims, and raise money from foolish people. This court challenge is an obvious waste of time. They have no standing, as the courts have ruled. Unlike the the 9-11 victim's families lawsuit against the Saudis, where there are direct stakes by the plaintiffs, A&ETruth are nothing more than hacks putting on a circus sideshow to make their dimwitted patrons think they still have relevance.

A&ETruth has no dog in a fight with NIST. They didn't rent space at the WTC, they had no input, passive or direct, in the design and construction of the WTC complex. The are no grounds for a suit against NIST. And to date, none of the various entities that received negative profiles for their part in the structural shortcomings of the Twin Towers and #7 have felt the need to file their own lawsuit againts NIST for their findings.
 
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AE911T is simply a way to raise money to pay the people who raise the money. They do no research and they are an embarrassment.
 
Orphia Nay said:
"A federal court has ruled in our case against NIST that U.S. government agencies are allowed to issue knowingly false reports, and that their reports are NOT required to be scientifically accurate."

I think it's quite likely that AE911T have misinterpreted the ruling.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup:

From the ruling:

Plaintiffs believe the report NIST issued is scientifically inaccurate or even intentionally fraudulent. They confuse, however, NIST’s obligation to issue a report that includes an analysis of the likely technical cause or causes of the building collapse with an obligation to issue a report that adopts the particular analysis plaintiffs believe is correct.

I did like this bit:

Second, Architects asserts that NIST’s issuance of the allegedly fraudulent WTC 7 Report caused Architects to expend several hundred thousand dollars commissioning a study to rebut the report.

Did they really spend that kind of cash on the report by the Alaska professor, or is that including Gage's salary (back in the day)?
 
Does anyone realistically think, that the final judgement of this latest attempt at keeping the Troofah-cashcow rolling, will actually end with a single person independent of this action, suddenly realising their claims are indeed a gigantic pile of manure?

I just look at JFK and know that no matter what happens, ever, none of these jokers will exit their cul-de-sac of failure. :boxedin:
 
Orphia Nay said:
I see the appellants include Bob and Lyn McIlvaine, still stuck down the rabbit hole.
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Yes. The manipulation of victims is probably the sickest aspect of the AE911 agenda. It is far too late for the McIlvaines. They should have been helped, certainly not hindered, in their search for closure.

I'm sure AE911 could have continued its scams and ego-tripping with little loss of customers if they had taken the more honourable path. Not misused the McIlvaines and other victims in their scam marketing.
 
If I were a conspiracy theorist myself I’d accuse AE911T of colluding with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to distract from and discredit efforts by the 9/11 families to hold Riyadh liable for the actions of Saudi officials in facilitating 9/11.

The depressing reality is that, like conspiracy theorists in general, the AE911Truth people are perfectly capable of cynically exploiting regular people’s fears, grief, anger at and suspicions of the US government for their own personal (financial) gain without support from anyone else. Pretty scummy behavior.
 
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Allen773 said:
If I were a conspiracy theorist myself I’d accuse AE911T of colluding with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to distract from and discredit efforts by the 9/11 families to hold Riyadh liable for the actions of Saudi officials in facilitating 9/11.

The depressing reality is that, like conspiracy theorists in general, the AE911Truth people are perfectly capable of cynically exploiting regular people’s fears, grief, anger at and suspicions of the US government for their own personal (financial) gain without support from anyone else. Pretty scummy behavior.
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Do we know if the current AE911T regime are profiting?

I know Richard Gage made a fairly good annual income out of it, but I haven't seen any of their financial records since he left.
 
Brainster said:
Did they really spend that kind of cash on the report by the Alaska professor, or is that including Gage's salary (back in the day)?
Click to expand...

The amount transfered to UAF / Hulsey's study was $316,000.
 
Orphia Nay said:
Do we know if the current AE911T regime are profiting?

I know Richard Gage made a fairly good annual income out of it, but I haven't seen any of their financial records since he left.
Click to expand...

It's complicated
I just logged in to my guidestar.org account for the first time in a long time. It has IRS forms 990 for years 2020 to 2022 now.
In 2021, Kelly David was the only one compensated, at >90 k$. In 2022, she and Ted Walter each got more than 70k, and Roland Angle 17k and a bit.
But in 2023, Kelly David was ousted, not sure about Ted Walter's role. Also, the list of officers shrank dramatically 20021 to 22. Revenues are trending down, they made losses both years.

I am on my phone now. Later this week, I hope to dive into it in detail and provide you with the PDFs. In the meantime, you can search for "EIN 26-1532493 form 990".
 
Over the past few years, the 9/11 truth lawyers committee has slowly coopted the entire 911Truth organization in order to turn its funds into billable hours that line their pockets in absolute nonsense suits. The huckster lawyers behind the effort cry all the way to the bank each time one of these nonsense suits is thrown out. It really is that simple.
 
Oystein said:
It's complicated
I just logged in to my guidestar.org account for the first time in a long time. It has IRS forms 990 for years 2020 to 2022 now.
In 2021, Kelly David was the only one compensated, at >90 k$. In 2022, she and Ted Walter each got more than 70k, and Roland Angle 17k and a bit.
But in 2023, Kelly David was ousted, not sure about Ted Walter's role. Also, the list of officers shrank dramatically 20021 to 22. Revenues are trending down, they made losses both years.

I am on my phone now. Later this week, I hope to dive into it in detail and provide you with the PDFs. In the meantime, you can search for "EIN 26-1532493 form 990".
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Thanks, Oystein. Sounds like they're failing even more than usual.
 
Ok - 9/11 isn't on my mind a lot anymore.
But it's a good thing I waited with a detailed post (which I won't write until February), because I just found a detail-rich post about the most recent heavy and dirty fighting among ex-AE people - Craig McKee washing dirty laundry galore:

https://truthandshadows.com/2024/01/21/walter-urged-hulsey-to-quit-ae/

Short story:
When Gage was fired from AE in 2021, Ted Walter campaigned to take over as CEO, but instead Kelly David got the job. Then Walter wanted to become co-CEO, and when they wouldn't let him, he campaigned against David to get her ousted, and because of this, David stepped down and left AE in late 2022. Because of this, Andy Steele resigned in protest temporarily. Walter was fired as a result in January 2023. Eight days later, he emailed Leroy Hulsey to cut ties with AE and instead associate with Walter and the new/old "Interneational Center for 9/11 Justice" that Walters founded with David Chandler and Elisabeth Woodword. Two more board members left AE. And the IC911J (also Kevin Ryan, James Gourley, ...) talked family members McIlvaine and Campbell to work with them, and they don't give AE credit for all AE has done and they believe the official Pentagon story which has had McKee pissed for a whole decade already. And Gage is not a leader and also working against.

Boy, are there knives out! :D
 
Are people still "into" this stuff? I can't even remember what they were fighting about. We need a 911 truth for Dummies.
 
:newlol Splitters! Guess it's hard to band together on a story when the story is full of holes. :D
 
Orphia Nay said:
:newlol Splitters! Guess it's hard to band together on a story when the story is full of holes. :D
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It was always a story about Idiots following Liars and Grifters, that's all it ever was, why I invented the Word Twoofer in 2005, To tell the grifters and the Liars from the ones actually looking for the Truth.
 
Brainster said:
Wonder how much got kicked back. ;)
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Since Hulsey was doing this on UAF's premises, with UAF resource, using UAF's web presence and two graduate assistants on UAF's engineering department, I am pretty convinced the finances were handled through a UAF back office.
I offer no guess as to what, if any, percentage of these 316k ended up in a pocket that Hulsey could personally control to effect kick-backs. Just saying that most likely, a substantial proportion would have been controlled by people with no interest in reimbursing a Twoofer group.
 
From AE911T’s News page, on March 8:

This week our attorneys submitted our petition to the United States Supreme Court, challenging the rulings of lower courts in our case against NIST.

Among the challenges under review is a decision by the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia that set a dangerous standard for our nation.

The court has claimed that, provided federal agency reports meet statutory requirements, they are not required to be scientifically accurate, even when solid evidence proves their conclusions to be demonstrably false, and do not give rise to informational standing.

This ruling is a direct challenge to the constitutional right of American citizens of access to the courts, and severely hinders the ability of the judicial branch to perform its constitutional and critical role of oversight of federal agency abuses of power.
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https://www.ae911truth.org/news/975-our-fight-is-everyones-fight

How/when does the Supreme Court decide to take the case?

Here’s the petition itself:

https://www.ae911truth.org/images/P..._Certiorari_final_as_filed_version_030524.pdf
 
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