9/11: What was the point?

[ahhell]

It really advanced the US security apparatus's ability to spy on Foreigners and Americans alike. The FISA courts are basically a soft star chamber without any meaningful oversight.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

It really advanced the US security apparatus's ability to spy on Foreigners and Americans alike. The FISA courts are basically a soft star chamber without any meaningful oversight.

True, although I believe that has been rolled back somewhat now.
To me, that would still appear to be groups piggybacking on the aftermath of 9/11 to advance their own interests, rather than being an actual goal of staging the attacks in the first place.

 

[Allen773]

Here’s a conspiracy theory for you: Iran was behind 9/11.

“But wait, Al-Qaeda are Salafi Sunni jihadists, disproportionately from Arab countries, and the guy who founded it and led it until his death was a rich Saudi!”

Yes, but have you considered that Osama bin Laden’s stated enemies—the United States, Israel, and the House of Saud — are also sworn enemies of the Iranian regime? Curious, huh?

“That’s some neo-con hawk fever dream ********. If anything, the Saudis were much more responsible for 9/11, especially with 15 of the 19 hijackers being Saudi and all of the contacts some of the hijackers had with people at the Saudi consulate and embassy before 9/11!”

Ah, but that just shows how good the Iranians are at this stuff. They were FRAMING their Saudi archenemy for 9/11, to drive a stake in the heart of the alliance between the US and Saudi Arabia. How diabolically brilliant!

“Yeah, well, it’s not like we invaded Iran after 9/11. We invaded Afghanistan and then Iraq!”

Yes, we got rid of Iran’s Taliban enemies in Afghanistan and their archnemesis Saddam Hussein in Iraq and empowered the Shia majority in Iraq, which Iran took advantage of. We made it so much easier for Iran to get weapons to its close allies and proxies in Syria and Lebanon. We did their jobs for them.

But of course that’s no surprise, because the US government is in fact secretly controlled by the Iranian Ayatollahs themselves, and it doesn’t matter which party is in power.

/conspiracy theory mode

My head hurts.

 

[ahhell]

True, although I believe that has been rolled back somewhat now.
To me, that would still appear to be groups piggybacking on the aftermath of 9/11 to advance their own interests, rather than being an actual goal of staging the attacks in the first place.

I agree, it was just opportunism, however, if I were the sort to think it was an inside job, that would be a goal that was accomplished.

Some of the extra security and internal spying has been rolled back but pretty much every time there's a like, Snowden and the women with a funny name, we find out its not as rolled back as I thought anyway.

 

[BazBear]

Haven't you heard? There isn't any gold in Fort Knox, and hasn't been for many years. Just imagine how disappointed the terrorsists would have been to fight their way in there, only to discover the vaults were bare!

Except for the 147,341,858 troy ounces there as of 1/31/22.

 

[gnome]

The simplest that's even plausible as a motive for "MIHOP" or "LIHOP" as the old phrase goes, would be to turn US political culture into something more security obsessed, more willing to mistrust outsiders, more willing to give up freedoms.

It worked, too, except for the part where there's any real evidence of internal conspiracy. Same stuff happens when you get attacked for real, and politicians took advantage. It honestly doesn't seem a stretch to believe they would have stopped it had they reasonably been able to, and still willing to capitalize on the aftermath.

 

[Cosmic Yak]

The simplest that's even plausible as a motive for "MIHOP" or "LIHOP" as the old phrase goes, would be to turn US political culture into something more security obsessed, more willing to mistrust outsiders, more willing to give up freedoms.

It worked, too, except for the part where there's any real evidence of internal conspiracy. Same stuff happens when you get attacked for real, and politicians took advantage. It honestly doesn't seem a stretch to believe they would have stopped it had they reasonably been able to, and still willing to capitalize on the aftermath.

Very possibly- LIHOP is far more plausible than MIHOP.
I would argue with the highlighted, though. Given the ongoing storm about vaccine mandates, masks etc., I don't see that Americans are any more ready to give up their freedoms- real or perceived- than they were before.
If there was such an effect, it was short-lived. Guantanamo, CIA renditions, NSA wiretapping, use of torture- all were brought in by Dubya and his evil clique, but have been discredited and either curtailed or discontinued since.

That doesn't rule out the possibility that the neo-cons were only looking for short-term gains, in which case this could be judged a successful operation.

 

[Allen773]

Not to sound like a broken record, but the only semi-plausible “conspiracy theories” about 9/11 are that some mid and lower ranking Saudi officials, religious attaches in their embassy and consulates assisted some of the hijackers.

Wait, it’s not a conspiracy theory—that absolutely happened. Fahad al-Thuimary, Omar al-Bayoumi, and Musaed al-Jarrah have been identified by the FBI as having provided assistance to Nawaf al-Hazmi and Khalid al-Midhar. There are other suspicious Saudis with ties to the Saudi government identified in the “28 pages” as well as the Saudi couple who were living in Sarasota, FL in a house they were renting from the wife’s father, a wealthy Saudi businessman who had served as an advisor to a member of the royal family. Mohammed Atta and some of the other hijackers living in Florida visited this residence.

The question, then, isn’t about whether these people assisted some of the hijackers, but whether they were in any way aware of their al-Qaeda affiliation or their ultimate plans. We ultimately don’t really know and probably never will know (although I’d note that some of the aforementioned Saudis were known to have extremist views) because the Saudis take care of their own and will never be caught admitting publicly to anything that might embarrass them. They rely on the confidentiality of their conversations with US officials, and the US government isn’t keen on rocking the boat re: Saudi. Too many sensitive diplomatic, intelligence, and counterterrorism-related issues there. Oil markets are almost an afterthought.

At best, the 9/11 families seeking clarification and answers from the Saudi government will get a small, filtered version of the whole truth. Sad, but that’s the way of the world.

 

[Jaytje46]

The whole plot was to destroy the evidence of the 9/11 attack plan by blowing up building WTC7. Prove me wrong

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

The whole plot was to destroy the evidence of the 9/11 attack plan by blowing up building WTC7. Prove me wrong

We're still talking about it 21 years later? (OK. So maybe the PLAN did not work.)

 

[bknight]

The whole plot was to destroy the evidence of the 9/11 attack plan by blowing up building WTC7. Prove me wrong

History has already accomplished that mission.

 

[JSanderO]

that's rubbish

 

[JoeMorgue]

I've said many times that "Conspiracy Theories" aren't like they used to be.

Take the Pre-9/11 Ur Example, the Kennedy Assassination.

The "Conspiracy" hires Oswald to shoot Kennedy, kills Oswald to shut him up. Okay that's not what happened and if you let any external facts into the discussion it falls apart but it work as a story. If you say that as plot in a spy film you'd buy it. It's a classic patsy fall guy story.

9/11 is different because none of the conspiracy theories work even as stories with internal logic. They don't work even if you do believe them.

 

[Brainster]

I've said many times that "Conspiracy Theories" aren't like they used to be.

Take the Pre-9/11 Ur Example, the Kennedy Assassination.

The "Conspiracy" hires Oswald to shoot Kennedy, kills Oswald to shut him up. Okay that's not what happened and if you let any external facts into the discussion it falls apart but it work as a story. If you say that as plot in a spy film you'd buy it. It's a classic patsy fall guy story.

9/11 is different because none of the conspiracy theories work even as stories with internal logic. They don't work even if you do believe them.

Many conspiracy theories aren't about the event itself, but what happened as a result of the event. Holocaust was a hoax? Not about the Holocaust, but about Israel. Pearl Harbor, JFK Assassination and 9-11 conspiracy theories were about WWII, Vietnam, and Iraq/Afghanistan. In a lot of ways, I'd say they were trump cards for people too lazy to learn the real arguments for and against the US involvement in each of those conflicts. (Although forgotten now, there was strong anti-war sentiment in the US (prior to Pearl Harbor), due largely to the desire to avoid foreign entanglements after WWI.)

 

[gnome]

The whole plot was to destroy the evidence of the 9/11 attack plan by blowing up building WTC7. Prove me wrong

Obviously it was to destroy the evidence in WTC7 proving the Clintons were serial murderers. Like that time they controlled the weather to make a plane crash so that they could send someone into the wreckage to shoot someone.

 

[Axxman300]

The whole plot was to destroy the evidence of the 9/11 attack plan by blowing up building WTC7. Prove me wrong

Well, WTC7 wasn't blown up. What do I win?

Questions:

1. Seriously?
2. Why would anyone write anything down that would convict them?
3. Why leave non-existent plans at the scene of the crime?
4. What idiot would plot the destruction of a building complex - IN THE SAME BUILDING COMPLEX?
5. Why not fly one of the four hijacked jets into WTC7?

 

[pgimeno]

Questions:

1. Seriously?

Obviously not. Poe's law and all that.

 

[Orphia Nay]

The mission was to prove the mission didn't happen?

The pointlessness of 9/11 Trutherism encapsulated.

 

[Crazy Chainsaw]

The whole plot was to destroy the evidence of the 9/11 attack plan by blowing up building WTC7. Prove me wrong

The evidence still existed, 7018, 6010, and Grinder sparks left in the dust, Laclade paint chips in the dust, the laws of Physics, the Survivers. All of that shows the plan was a Huge Failure if that was the plan.

The bigger Question is the Switch From Democratic underground, to Libertarian Constitutionalist Ron Paul's Waco Whackos, that happened in
2007-2008 The Antisemitism and Craziness of the movement shifting Gears as Theory after absurd theory was debunked?
May make a Thread on that Later.

 

[dudalb]

The worst thing about 9/11 Truthers is they never come up with anything new. It always a recycle of the same old crap.

 

[JSanderO]

Truthers deny the perfectly logical and consistent with science and engineering explanations that have been put forth. They are "truth deniers"... willfully because the explanations have been out there for more than 15 years.