Ukraine sniping problem...

[Joey McGee]

flippant scorn

I would say cogent mockery, but go on!

where it doesn't belong

But it's my opinion old chap! And this be a forum!

Note how they tried to downplay the comments and failed.

I did not notice that!

Paet was caught here speaking candidly, supposedly off-the-record, and thus more reliably and truthfully than he or any cohorts would speak in public. It's hard to imagine a more credible source for such a thing.

Except for the fact that he's talking about what other people's conspiracy theories are, not what he knows for sure or has evidence for or believes himself! LOL

Gloabal Research - so what?

They mostly print delusional garbage, have you been to that site?

You don't trust the AP

They believe it was a "false flag"? haha those three ********** up news sources printed together as if all three of them together were better than just one caused me to laugh... you don't get it?

Not knowing the slightest what you're talking about, while jumping to laugh at the real murder of Ukrainian people

How twisted! Suddenly I'm laughing at the murder of Ukranian people and not stupidity of the conspiracy theorists! How desperate and confused!

and those in Ukraine and elsewhere who are realistically worried about the who and why and what next of it all ... This, Joey, is a good formula for fail and you did it full tilt.

Oh yes, I really owe all due respect to Paul Joseph Watson, because he is just honestly trying to find da twoof! I shouldn't mock him, such a bad person am I...

BTW if anyone here still buys the theory that Yanukovych and his law enforcement people conspired to kill a few unarmed protesters (and some of their own cops), just as the mob was built up, had the Berkut cleared out, and a clear path to stomp the parliament - as alleged at the time - don't take it to the CT forum! It's one of the valid theories about the conspiracy behind the sniper killings (or did it just sort of happen?) It's worth discussing here in detail. Kruschev's lineage is not.

A few? A theory? How idiotic to try and build up the idea that your conspiracy theory is as valid as the accepted facts...

 

[A'isha]

If the snipers were planted by "Western imperialists" in order to make it look like Yanukovich's government forces were killing protesters in order to justify Western intervention to remove Yanukovich, why were they also shooting the police that Yanukovich was using to crack down on those protesters?

 

[icebear]

Assumes facts not in evidence, regarding "false flags". Conspiracy Theory forum is that way --------->

https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=russian++ukraine++snipers++"false+flag"&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

 

[LSSBB]

https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=russian++ukraine++snipers++"false+flag"&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Point being?

 

[icebear]

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014...-sniper-attacks-false-flag-argue-culprit.html

AP reports today:

One of the biggest mysteries hanging over the protest mayhem that drove Ukraine’s president from power: Who was behind the snipers who sowed death and terror in Kiev?

That riddle has become the latest flashpoint of feuding over Ukraine — with the nation’s fledgling government and the Kremlin giving starkly different interpretations of events that could either undermine or bolster the legitimacy of the new rulers.

And, as Paet noted when he thought he was off the record, the accumulating weight of evidence strongly indicates that it was the new government which was involved.

GIVEN that strong likelihood, what the hell is the US government doing?

 

[icebear]

Point being?

Two points really: one is that the the thing about false flags is not just a conspiracy theory and, two, is that you appear to be trying to derail this thread because you don't really have anything intelligent to add to it. Please desist.

 

[icebear]

I would say cogent mockery, but go on!..

The guy's right, please find another thread for your stupid mockery.

 

[catsmate]

I suggest this thread be moved to Conspiracy theories.

Indeed.

If the snipers were planted by "Western imperialists" in order to make it look like Yanukovich's government forces were killing protesters in order to justify Western intervention to remove Yanukovich, why were they also shooting the police that Yanukovich was using to crack down on those protesters?

Because they're EVIL...........

 

[Joey McGee]

And, as Paet noted when he thought he was off the record

Why do you cling to this narrative when he is talking about what other people's conspiracy theories are? They came out and said exactly that, that it doesn't reflect his personal thoughts, of course, to you, this is a denial and part of the cover-up. But if you look at what he said, it's clear. Strange...

the accumulating weight of evidence strongly indicates that it was the new government which was involved

What about all of that video evidence of the government sniping people? How did they fake that?

The guy's right, please find another thread for your stupid mockery.

What thread would be more appropriate to mock the people who cling to conspiracy theories about the sniping in the Ukraine?

 

[LSSBB]

Two points really: one is that the the thing about false flags is not just a conspiracy theory and, two, is that you appear to be trying to derail this thread because you don't really have anything intelligent to add to it. Please desist.

I'm not derailing, I'm asking you to support your argument. Can't do that? Just admit it. It may even be liberating.

 

[Caustic Logic]

When is a "hallmark", and someone's personal view of what is "logical", evidence? What if the person who thinks it is "logical" is wrong?

A hallmark, if real, is evidence of a thing. If the logic is wrong, well, it is. Do you have an argument to that effect?

Let me add the evidence already cited by credible people - the bullets being the same for police and "protesters."

 

[uke2se]

A hallmark, if real, is evidence of a thing. If the logic is wrong, well, it is. Do you have an argument to that effect?

Let me add the evidence already cited by credible people - the bullets being the same for police and "protesters."

What do you think it means that a doctor remarked that the bullets look similar for the three policemen who were hit and all the protesters?

 

[Caustic Logic]

So much stupidity here, I don't know where to start. Ai'sha has an intelligent question I can answer.

If the snipers were planted by "Western imperialists" in order to make it look like Yanukovich's government forces were killing protesters in order to justify Western intervention to remove Yanukovich, why were they also shooting the police that Yanukovich was using to crack down on those protesters?

The timing is key to that question. That last violent day something like 28 cops were shot by smaller caliber guns and only a very few (4?) died. Of the total 15 or so cops, 10 were already listed dead, by snipers, along with protesters and civilians killed, by the morning of the 19th, killed the night before. That was back when police weren't armed, I presume to avoid charges of shooting protesters.

http://rt.com/news/ukraine-deadly-clashes-reactions-652/

Twenty-six people were killed overnight in the most violent clashes yet to have occurred between security forces and protesters since the opposition took to the streets of Kiev in November 2013. Ten of the casualties are Ukrainian police officers, who died of gunshot wounds, as did the rest of the victims, the Interior Ministry reported.

On the 19th, they got guns. On the 20th, their guns were blamed for killing protesters. If the guns hadn't been tricked into their hands, that wouldn't have worked.

So, sorry, I don't have the paper orders here to explain the actual reason, so I suppose you'll just call that speculation and laugh, and go back the gub'mint did it conspiracy theory.

BTW, can anyone cite "hard evidence" for that? Joey above cites that it's "the accepted facts." Accepted by who and why? Why does "acceptance" make something true?

 

[uke2se]

So much stupidity here, I don't know where to start.

If you worry about the amount of stupidity, the best resort for you would be to stop posting.

 

[Caustic Logic]

LOLThey mostly print delusional garbage, have you been to that site?

I have article there, non-delusional ones like this. But the quality of material is mixed.

They believe it was a "false flag"? haha those three ********** up news sources printed together as if all three of them together were better than just one caused me to laugh...

Still nothing actually wrong with the info passed on. Why is mnore info not better than less?

How twisted! Suddenly I'm laughing at the murder of Ukranian people and not stupidity of the conspiracy theorists!

You split my sentence, but it's a package deal. The real concerns are about real dead people, it's not really a funny subject.

How desperate and confused!Oh yes, I really owe all due respect to Paul Joseph Watson, because he is just honestly trying to find da twoof!

Fine, Watson. And I guess you have a thing against the Associated Press, as well as Fox News, and a bunch of other sources. Fine. But still no reason given to laugh at Paet, Bogomolets, Muisy, Avakov, Yakimenko, etc. Or are all these words put in their mouths by CT journalists? You apparently just ate some kind of mushroom that makes you laugh a lot? HA!

How idiotic to try and build up the idea that your conspiracy theory is as valid as the accepted facts...

Ah. "Accepted facts." That's awesome.

You never acknowledged that you spouted off in total ignorance. Your fillets are getting thinner, but they're still sizzling stupid. Way to stand your stupid ground.

 

[Caustic Logic]

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014...-sniper-attacks-false-flag-argue-culprit.html



And, as Paet noted when he thought he was off the record, the accumulating weight of evidence strongly indicates that it was the new government which was involved.

GIVEN that strong likelihood, what the hell is the US government doing?

That's from March 7, not today. A big, detailed, important article. It's the Fox one Joey's just laughed away. His homework just got easier yet.

I finally did my own transcript of the candid call where, sans script, the Foreign Minister tells it like he actually sees it with his pro-grade brain for people and nations. He's said to cite Olga's opinion but it seems to me he starts with her and then corrects himself to say "all the evidence," though without giving a checklist.

Paet: ...what was quite disturbing was the same Olga (prev. mentioned) told that, well all the evidence shows uh, that the people who were killed by snipers, from both sides, among policemen and people on the streets, that they were the same snipers, killing people from both sides.
Ashton: Well that's ... (inaudible, overrun)
Paet: So that, and then she also showed me some photos uh she says as medical doctor she can, you know, say it is the same - the same handwriting, the same type of bullets, and - it's really disturbing that now the new, uh ... new coalition that they don't want to investigate what exactly happened, so that there is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind snipers there were, it was not Yanukovych but it was somebody from the new coalition.
Ashton: I think we do want to investigate. (something something) Gosh.

I was wrong to say she compared photos - she showed him photos to compare, and tho not a doctor, he trusted her reading. The new Health Minister, who apparently worked with her in the Maidan clinic, also agrees with the assessment.

Some giggly people here do not. Awesome for their genius selves.

As for these bullets, they would I guess suggest the same type of gun was used in all killings? I'm no weapons expert. It seems the killings happened on different days, however, and maybe different areas (still unclear)

 

[uke2se]

As for these bullets, they would I guess suggest the same type of gun was used in all killings? I'm no weapons expert.

Or any other kind of expert.

A doctor who looks at bullets and sees similarities can mean any number of things. It can mean the doctor isn't used to bullets and see any bullets as similar looking. It can mean the bullets are of a similar shape and size, which is the fact with many rifle bullets. It can even mean that the bullets came from the same type of weapon, or even the same weapon.

This is why we have experts conduct an examination of bullets used in crimes. These experts use newfangled technology like "microscopes" and "compare" the bullets before spouting off on how they are similar-looking.

 

[Childlike Empress]

I was wrong to say she compared photos - she showed him photos to compare, and tho not a doctor, he trusted her reading. The new Health Minister, who apparently worked with her in the Maidan clinic, also agrees with the assessment.

I just watched SyrianGirl interview a new friend of hers - you guessed it, UkrainianGirl!!

She seems rather authentic and says she is a fan of Olga's and follows her output closely. She says, as far as I understood it, that Olga indeed did not treat Berkut guys on the 20th, so the guy who made that argument about the CNN interview (was it spin0?) was apparently right. But she saw/received photos and apparently came to the conclusion she shared with Paet by discussion with the doctors who did treat Berkut victims, maybe the new Health Minister. And is very into an investigation into this, so the only thing Paet maybe got wrong is that she herself treated Berkut on the 20th - but even that is not explicitly said in your transcript.

As to the other stuff - want a copy of my ignore list? It's quite concise.

 

[Joey McGee]

You split my sentence, but it's a package deal. The real concerns are about real dead people, it's not really a funny subject.

So I guess we shouldn't mock truthers either for their braindead theories about 911 because people died? You're transparently trying to gain respect and moral high ground by insinuating there is something wrong with my moral compass for having the audacity to mock someone's fantasies? Pretty weak!

Fine, Watson. And I guess you have a thing against the Associated Press, as well as Fox News, and a bunch of other sources. Fine.

I just thought those three sources put together was cute. The AP isn't actually suggesting that the facts are that the snipers were paid for by the opposition, so no, I don't have a problem with that...

But still no reason given to laugh at Paet

I agree with Paet, they were relating something they had heard, not what they personally believe. Sorry where is the evidence of a false flag? None has been provided by a reputable and believable source that would outweigh what we have seen already.

Ah. "Accepted facts." That's awesome.

Are they not the accepted facts by most people in the West? They may not be true, but you'd have to explain all of that video footage of government employees shooting people.

You never acknowledged that you spouted off in total ignorance. Your fillets are getting thinner, but they're still sizzling stupid. Way to stand your stupid ground.

Do you write letters asking cable providers to carry RT? Perhaps you should all move to Russia I hear they are paying people to have children there is that true? Could start a Snowden appreciation society and not have to put up with so much propaganda sold as news...

 

[Joey McGee]

That's from March 7, not today. A big, detailed, important article. It's the Fox one Joey's just laughed away. His homework just got easier yet.

I finally did my own transcript of the candid call where, sans script, the Foreign Minister tells it like he actually sees it with his pro-grade brain for people and nations. He's said to cite Olga's opinion but it seems to me he starts with her and then corrects himself to say "all the evidence," though without giving a checklist.


I was wrong to say she compared photos - she showed him photos to compare, and tho not a doctor, he trusted her reading. The new Health Minister, who apparently worked with her in the Maidan clinic, also agrees with the assessment.

Some giggly people here do not. Awesome for their genius selves.

As for these bullets, they would I guess suggest the same type of gun was used in all killings? I'm no weapons expert. It seems the killings happened on different days, however, and maybe different areas (still unclear)

In an interview earlier this week with a correspondent from British newspaper The Telegraph, Bogomolets said she didn't know if police and protesters were killed by the same bullets, and called for a thorough investigation.

"No one who just sees the wounds when treating the victims can make a determination about the type of weapons," she was quoted as saying. "I hope international experts and Ukrainian investigators will make a determination of what type of weapons, who was involved in the killings and how it was done. I have no data to prove anything."


http://news.yahoo.com/russia-ukraine-feud-over-sniper-carnage-203319580.html