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Merged Ukraine erupts in riots and general strike.

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angrysoba said:
I'm sorry, but I have no idea what it is we are supposed to be looking at in those photographs.

Are you saying that Dmitry Jarosh and Arseniy Yatsenyuk are related somehow?
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I'm saying that Dimitri smells a victim when he encounters Yats, and Yats has bad dreams after a day of "decisions" with Dimitri's guys in the room. Menschenkenntnis.
 
angrysoba said:
I'm sorry, but I have no idea what it is we are supposed to be looking at in those photographs.

Are you saying that Dmitry Jarosh and Arseniy Yatsenyuk are related somehow?
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I believe the point is that a) The new prime minister got his job because he's Jewish.
b) The new prime minister is a puny Jew coward who pisses in his pants at the mere sight of his Nazi chief of security.
 
Abby on now.

edit: She essentially told Piers that she has more freedom at RT than he has at CNN and stopped close of telling him that he got into no trouble because he is incapable of even thinking against the corporate perspective. Liz was also on and Piers rightly asked her why she worked for RT in the first place (I don't know what she did there) if she feels that strongly about USA!USA!USA! as her statement suggests. She said she was kind of naive or something. She refused to smear Abby for staying at RT and said some nice things about her.

That was it apparently, next will be the Wicked Witch of the West comparing Putin to Hitler or something ... i'll tune out. :rolleyes:

If you ever feel like watching CNN America live, this thing did the service for me.
 
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Open letter of Ukrainian Jews to Russian Federation President Vladimir Putin

We are convinced that you are not easily fooled. This means that you must be consciously picking and choosing lies and slander from the entire body of information on Ukraine. And you know very well that Victor Yanukovich’s statement used to describe the situation after the latest treaty had been signed – “…Kyiv is full of armed people who have begun to ransack buildings, places of worship, and churches. Innocent people are suffering. People are being robbed and killed in the streets…” – is simply a lie, from the first word to the very last.

The Russian-speaking citizens of Ukraine are not being humiliated or discriminated against, their civil rights have not been infringed upon. Meanderings about “forced Ukrainization” and “bans on the Russian language” that have been so common in Russian media are on the heads of those who invented them. Your certainty about the growth of anti-Semitism in Ukraine, which you expressed at your press-conference, also does not correspond to the actual facts. Perhaps you got Ukraine confused with Russia, where Jewish organizations have noticed growth in anti-Semitic tendencies last year.
....
They have tried to scare us (and are continuing their attempts) with “Bandera followers” and “Fascists” attempting to wrest away the helm of Ukrainian society, with imminent Jewish pogroms. Yes, we are well aware that the political opposition and the forces of social protests who have secured changes for the better are made up of different groups. They include nationalistic groups, but even the most marginal do not dare show anti-Semitism or other xenophobic behavior. And we certainly know that our very few nationalists are well-controlled by civil society and the new Ukrainian government – which is more than can be said for the Russian neo-Nazis, who are encouraged by your security services.
...
Unfortunately, we must admit that in recent days stability in our country has been threatened. And this threat is coming from the Russian government, namely – from you personally. It is your policy of inciting separatism and crude pressure placed on Ukraine that threatens us and all Ukrainian people, including those who live in Crimea and the Ukrainian South-East. South-eastern Ukrainians will soon see that for themselves.
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Childlike Empress said:
Abby on now.

edit: She essentially told Piers that she has more freedom at RT than he has at CNN and stopped close of telling him that he got into no trouble because he is incapable of even thinking against the corporate perspective.
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But Piers did get into trouble. It had nothing to do with being incapable of thinking against the corporate perspective (a rather nonsensical charge which basically just means he wasn't a conpiracy nut), it was because nobody watched him because he's an unlikeable prick.
 
spin0 said:
With 74.2% in Feb poll the general sentiment of Eastern Ukrainians is that they don't want to unite to Russia.
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spin0 said:
It's a minority opinion even in Eastern Ukraine: as per latest Feb poll uniting with Russia has only 25.8% support there.

Generally in Ukraine support for that has been on a long term downward trend, and it's a minority opinion even among the Ukrainians who identify as ethnic Russians. The support is strongest among the Communists and Party of Regions supporters. Correlation with age is very strong and support is by far strongest among people over 55, with very little support from the young.
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Ukraine has a unique situation in which older people are beginning to outnumber younger people. The average age of the population is increasing.

People are underestimating one serious factor. Russia doesn't not need the popular support of the people. In fact, the opinions of the people though important do not factor in nearly as much as the oligarchs. The current régime is making a serious mistake by sending an oligarch to governorship in eastern Ukraine. If Russia were to buy just a few oligarchs, it would most likely signal a shift in policy. Russia has done this before with Yanukovych, they will most likely do this with another candidate.

The geopolitics in Ukraine are far from over. Russia will stop nothing to get their hands on Ukraine.
 
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spin0 said:
You avoided the question. I asked: But how has Russia been successful regarding closer integration to the EU?

Because in the events I see no Russian success regarding that, not even in your wishful beating of Ukraine. How has Russia been successful? I say it hasn't been, to the contrary.
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Russia will almost certainly turn up the heat on the wealthy business elite in the country and their businesses will temporarily flounder until they agree to be at least neutral to the idea of EU integration.

spin0 said:
Foreign country invades, and you assume it must have only negligible effect on opinions? Get real.
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It has merely solidified previous opinions. My opinion of the event is that if you were fairly neutral leaning in one direction before, the Russia invasion made you a hardliner in either direction. I don't think there have been substantial converts in either direction tbh.
 
L.Y.S. said:
Ukraine has a unique situation in which older people are beginning to outnumber younger people. The average age of the population is increasing.

People are underestimating one serious factor. Russia doesn't not need the popular support of the people. In fact, the opinions of the people though important do not factor in nearly as much as the oligarchs. The current régime is making a serious mistake by sending an oligarch to governorship in eastern Ukraine. If Russia were to buy just a few oligarchs, it would most likely signal a shift in policy. Russia has done this before with Yanukovych, they will most likely do this with another candidate.

The geopolitics in Ukraine are far from over. Russia will stop nothing to get their hands on Ukraine.
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That opportunity might have already passed.
 
Caustic Logic said:
With all due respect, this is the same stupid thing you said before, by way of "debunk." I too denounce Nazis on both sides. Who are these Nazis on the Yanukovych side? Can you name them? Or provide evidence of any of this type of thing on the other side. I'd like to denounce them.
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Fascists. I said fascists. As for a name, how about Vladimir Putin? Let's hear you denounce him.

Caustic Logic said:
I've heard that the government claims Jews were partly leading the protests, and that lie is a good clue they're racists and the protesters not. I've also heard the protesters couldn't be Nazis, because they were partly led by Jews, led by our friend "Delta," who saw none of the Nazi stuff while fighting in these events, when I can see them just in video.

So, what besides that obvious fail? I'm willing to listen.I know anti-semitism and authoritarainism both linger plenty in the area. I'm looking for Nazi, fascist white supremacist dangerous thugs like these. Where were they in power before? Why is it not valid to say it's gotten way worse now that these guys are in power?
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"Those guys" aren't in power. A few of them are, while the rest of the government isn't "Nazi, fascist white supremacist dangerous thugs". A popular rebellion took place, and not all of the groups involved are lily-white. Seemingly everyone but you are aware of that fact.

None of this excuses all the hand-waving and apologetics you spew for the fascist in the Kremlin, though. It's quite disgusting.
 
L.Y.S. said:
Russia still has a few options left.
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Quite a few. Which is why I said "might". But the glare has become intense, from all directions. Even, amazingly, from his own propaganda outlet. Putin's in "minimize the damage" mode now, which is significantly different from the "take advantage of an opportunity" mode he started out in. And the box is getting smaller.
 
Wow. Quite the bunch of skeptics here!

Thesis: RT is a propaganda outlet for Putin.
Prediction: Nobody will therefore say anything critical for fear of loosing their job.
Observation: People say critical things, and even don't lose their jobs.
Conclusion: RT is a propaganda outlet for Putin.

BTW: Is Al Jazeera still a propaganda outlet for Osama Bin Laden? Did RT finally cover the anti-gay laws in russia, after that guy couragously displayed rainbow suspenders on air? (Like they did a week earlier on that very same show, and numerous other times)
 
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Magellan, when has anyone made the prediction you described?
 
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magellan said:
Wow. Quite the bunch of skeptics here!

Thesis: RT is a propaganda outlet for Putin.
Prediction: Nobody will therefore say anything critical for fear of loosing their job.
Observation: People say critical things, and even don't lose their jobs.
Conclusion: RT is a propaganda outlet for Putin.
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If you're not aware that RT was developed as a propaganda outlet for the Kremlin, that's your own ignorant fault. Don't blame me.
 
uke2se said:
Magellan, when has anyone made the prediction you described?
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Trust but verify, 2 pages ago is still waiting for Abby Martin to get fired.

Cleon even "observed" RT moderators "dropping like flies" (Since that hasn't happened yet one could say it's a prediction)
 
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