Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[AmyStrange]

lionking PLEASE TAKE NOTE

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Which world is that Dan O.

The UK / London – hardly ?

The world of families whose daughter is raped/murdered – perhaps from where you stand.

Or, or .......

Miss Kercher's mother was from Pakistan – she was one of those brown people.

Is that it. Do tell.

You barely have to scratch the surface before the reality of the groupie arguments is exposed.

Now what is the reason for this latest comment.
My throwaway line – perhaps.
The fact that the black killer will be out before the white kids killers– perhaps.
The realization that justice may soon be served .

Who knows ??

But in fairness to Dan O – this is not a new development.He previously threatened to start a thread exploring a sexual relationship between MK and RG [the guy convicted of her rape/murder] unless JREF comment on the groupie attacks on John Kercher didn't stop.
This visceral hatred of MK, her family and anyone associated with the prosecution of this case [especially PL – he's one of those also] is a recurrent theme.

I suspect that these impotent howls of rage/race hate will only increase in stridency and frequency as the judicial process grinds to its expected outcome.

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Please cite sources for these allegations.

See lionking, this is mostly what we get from the pro-guilters (Mach and C being the exception). I'd sure like to get them discussing evidence rather than speculative psychological crap and insulting lies. Why doesn't anybody want to discuss the evidence?

Maybe, because there isn't any evidence, proving guilt, to discuss?

d

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[Desert Fox]

'Two Case Studies in Biopolitics'

http://melbournelacanian.wordpress.com/2014/02/12/two-case-studies-in-biopolitics/#more-119

I am kind of skipping around "Waiting to be Heard" and she talks about having her hair get cut in prison. She wanted it short and was brought in front of a prison psychologist because of it.

I suspect that just about every inmate, guilty or innocent, have psychological issues in prison. In the US, unless you go bat. . . .totally crazy, you will get little help.

 

[kwill]

oh my.
Someone expressed ironic surprise that there had been so little response from the Kerchers, their attorney, or a prominent Knox/Sollecito guilter over the news that Guede was eligible for day passes out of prison, along with university courses. He reminded us all that it was Guede who had violated the victim sexually, implying that honoring her ought to involve some sort of public comment on this news.

A whole day has now passed. Anything from the Kerchers? Maresca? Harry Rag? Stephani at least? Nothing? Where is the honor and memory of Mez?

As a reminder Rudy Guede DNA was found inside Mez vagina! Hello!

Crickets...that's what I thought. Damn odd affair.

then someone else suggested -- ironically -- that there is no reason for the silence. That suggestion itself doesn't dishonor the victim -- it just points at the reality that many of those who claim to care about her couldn't manage the same sort of outrage toward Guede as they have toward others.

Maybe in their world that makes him family.

And in that context, suddenly it's racist?

Which world is that Dan O.

The UK / London – hardly ?

The world of families whose daughter is raped/murdered – perhaps from where you stand.

Or, or .......

Miss Kercher's mother was from Pakistan – she was one of those brown people.

Is that it. Do tell.

Now what is the reason for this latest comment.
My throwaway line – perhaps.
The fact that the black killer will be out before the white kids killers– perhaps.

Who knows ??

I suspect that these impotent howls of rage/race hate will only increase in stridency and frequency as the judicial process grinds to its expected outcome.

I thought this was a site for rational thinkers. Lets see if there might be some reason beyond color for rational people to wonder why Guede's freedom is apparently acceptable to people who claim to want to honor the woman he murdered . . . hmmmm. Maybe it's that he, you know, murdered her and then went dancing?

 

[lionking]

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Please cite sources for these allegations.

See lionking, this is mostly what we get from the pro-guilters (Mach and C being the exception). I'd sure like to get them discussing evidence rather than speculative psychological crap and insulting lies. Why doesn't anybody want to discuss the evidence?

Maybe, because there isn't any evidence, proving guilt, to discuss?

d

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Who made the "Maybe in their world that makes him family" crack?

I don't apologise for criticising it. Platonov takes it much further than I would have, but the insulting comment of Dan O deserved attention in my opinion.

 

[AmyStrange]

I don't think the Kerchers are happy about Rudy at all.

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Who made the "Maybe in their world that makes him family" crack?

I don't apologise for criticising it. Platonov takes it much further than I would have, but the insulting comment of Dan O deserved attention in my opinion.

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I responded here to that:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=9834480#post9834480

But, I will repeat that the article I read (that was posted here) about Rudy getting a History Degree and that the article also included a quote from someone in the Kercher family saying that (paraphrasing) it sickened them that Rudy was out and about and Meredith was dead.

I don't think the Kerchers are happy about Rudy at all.
But what I'm really wondering is, considering both sides do it, why do you consistently align yourself with one side in your criticisms? That's not a criticism or complaint, just an observation. You don't have to justify why you do it, I was just wondering what the theory was behind your actions?

I know how my mind works behind the scenes here at JREF. I've even tried to explain here how it does sometimes.

I'm just interested. You can PM me if you don't want to answer here,

d

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[Strozzi]

Originally Posted by lionking
Who made the "Maybe in their world that makes him family" crack?
I thought it was the guy named Yummi.

 

[lionking]

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But what I'm really wondering is, considering both sides do it, why do you consistently align yourself with one side in your criticisms?

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Because the other side's very crowded. I don't agree with a lot of what Machiavelli says, but there's little point in joining the piling on he receives. When I see an insulting or crass post go unchallenged, I'm sometimes (far from always) prompted to comment.

 

[AmyStrange]

Yummi?

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Originally Posted by lionking
Who made the "Maybe in their world that makes him family" crack?
I thought it was the guy named Yummi.

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Was it really Yummi that said that and someone was repeating it here?

That maybe puts a different spin on it. Now, I'm going to have to go back and look that up,

d

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[AmyStrange]

Thank you lionking

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Because the other side's very crowded. I don't agree with a lot of what Machiavelli says, but there's little point in joining the piling on he receives. When I see an insulting or crass post go unchallenged, I'm sometimes (far from always) prompted to comment.

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Thank you lionking. I personally think that you make a good arguement for your actions, and although I don't agree with which ones you chose to challenge, I certainly do understand and sympathize with your reasoning.

Hopefully, you don't get slammed for your Mach comment, but that's one of the reasons I don't pile on much either, but I'm glad he/ she does come here and opens theirself up to this forum, you got to give him/ her credit for that,

d

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[Samson]

I would like to ask Machiavelli a question, is it possible that judge Nencini will not write the motivation, as there is a clear precedent in the Scazzi case as confirmed by others here.
The reason I ask is that Nencini confirmed all convictions, but has introduced new ideas about timelines and motive. I can't see how this new motivation will mesh, and therefore it seems sensible to avoid the irreconcilable elements by doing the Scazzi delay thing. Note that case is also alleged to be a multi perp bizarre murder case, in which it may be impossible to write a coherent motivation.
Is it legal to overrun the 90 days?
I mean, Raffaele in limbo in Italy, Amanda in limbo in America, and the threads go on and on. Would this work in a strange way?

 

[Strozzi]

One item I notice is psychiatry is part of the Italian prison system, something I think that is almost nonexistent in the US system.

That is both interesting and ironic that the Italian prison health care system provides lots of psychiatrists. Ironic in this case for two reasons:

Mignini had Raffaele kept in solitary confinement for six months during the year it took Mignini to charge Raffaele with a crime. You wonder what Mignini was trying to do to Raffaele? Maybe get him to break down psychologically so he would be mallable in Mignini's hands? Maybe get Raffaele to change his testimony that he and Amanda were at his place together the evening and night of the murder? Good thing they have psychiatrists on standby.

The second reason it is ironic that the Italian prison system has lots of psychiatrists is because someone in Capanne prison's health care staff informed Amanda falsely that she tested positive for HIV. They kept her terrified for several weeks. And prompted her to write down the names of her intimate partners which the prison or prosecutor leaked to the news media.

 

[AmyStrange]

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=9832297#post9832297

Originally Posted by GWCarver
Why aren't the Kerchers going to the media and trumpeting their outrage about Guede
being allowed out of prison?


Response Posted by Dan O
Great question. A whole day has now passed. Anything from the Kerchers? Maresca?
Harry Rag? Stephani at least? Nothing? Where is the honor and memory of Mez?

As a reminder Rudy Guede DNA was found inside Mez vagina! Hello!

Crickets...that's what I thought. Damn odd affair.


Response Posted by Dan O
Maybe in their world that makes him family



That was definitely a cheap shot. I agree lionking.

This is the article that disproves that (that was posted here), although on second read I find it was a friend of the Kerchers and not from the Kerchers themselves, yet... I still stand by my statement that I believe the Kerchers are not happy about Rudy:

Here's some of it:

FROM: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/rudy-guede-meredith-kercher-killer-3132708

"He is the only one currently behind bars for the murder of British student Meredith Kercher – but jail is turning into an education for knifeman Rudy Guede.

"The 27-year-old has secretly been given permission to leave his cell on the sex offenders’ wing of a top security Italian jail – so he can pursue his studies for a history degree.

"But the fact that he is now able to enjoy day release to visit his tutor in a nearby town has provoked outrage.

"One friend of Meredith’s family said: “Rudy Guede being allowed out of prison to study like this is a sick joke.

"'Poor Meredith was in Perugia to study at university and this man was convicted of killing her.

“'She is dead and here he is now studying history and could even go to the same university.'”

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[AmyStrange]

delete

 

[Grinder]

Because the other side's very crowded. I don't agree with a lot of what Machiavelli says, but there's little point in joining the piling on he receives. When I see an insulting or crass post go unchallenged, I'm sometimes (far from always) prompted to comment.

Did I miss your comments about Amanda and Obama's pet?

Same with Raf being called knifeboy and porn something or another.

I ignored Dan O.'s comment because it didn't seem a positive to make it a running subject. More than crass I thought it didn't make any sense.

I would like to see you do something regarding the PGP that come here and make statements about PIP being racists etc.

 

[LondonJohn]

I do think that it's highly ironic (and very illuminating) that a poster who never tires of pontificating that he will post exactly what he likes, when he likes it, is simultaneously implicitly instructing other posters to respond to a particular post (and chiding them for not doing so). Sceptical, huh?

In related news, here's something I find very interesting about commentary related to this case. The Seattle PI picked up the "story" of a porn video company making an unsolicited monetary offer to Knox to feature in one of their productions. To anyone with a reasoned mind and a capacity to think clearly, this was clearly nothing more than a crass and distasteful publicity stunt by the porn company, which had nothing whatsoever to do with anything instigated from Knox's side. It was therefore total and utter non-news; and, what's more it was a story rooted in sexism and degradation of women.

Therefore, if any serious media outlet was going to run a piece about this "story", it ought to have been a meta-article about the disgustingly poor taste and inherent sexism that it illustrates. The Seattle PI, however, chose to run it as a straight story, with a dose of tongue-in-cheek chuckling thrown in for good measure:

http://blog.seattlepi.com/thebigblo...re-than-20k-to-star-in-porn-video/#20507101=0


Now, here's another interesting thing about this. There were (are) a number of reader comments below the article that essentially make the salient points that this is nothing to do with Knox, and that it's also a tawdry exhibition of (and implicit endorsement of) a creeping sort of sexism and woman-objectivism. Which it is. But even stranger is the fact that Peggy Ganong has chosen to comment on the article and its reaction. In her comment, she's opined that people should be "laughing" at the story rather than pointing out its rather obvious flaws and social failings. And this from a woman who, if I remember correctly, positions herself as some sort of proto-feminist. It's interesting and instructive because it tells us very clearly that Ganong is readily willing to abdicate her own beliefs and core values if it means having the opportunity to denigrate a personal hate figure (Amanda Knox). She's an intellectual midget and a sad, bitter little woman. Shame on her.

 

[LondonJohn]

Did I miss your comments about Amanda and Obama's pet?

Same with Raf being called knifeboy and porn something or another.

I ignored Dan O.'s comment because it didn't seem a positive to make it a running subject. More than crass I thought it didn't make any sense.

I would like to see you do something regarding the PGP that come here and make statements about PIP being racists etc.

Yep, you can't beat a bit of selective outrage. Symptomatic of critical thinking and logical objectivity at its finest

 

[RoseMontague]

Rose, IIP is second on your list. IIP was being set up around the same time this thread started, and it opened in May 2010. It was the outcome of a network on Facebook, not this thread. Most of the core supporters of the Facebook network who also inhabit IIP are not on JREF.

So it is, sorry about that. Interesting that more of the IIP original core supporters did not come over here as well.

 

[Mary_H]

<snip>In related news, here's something I find very interesting about commentary related to this case. The Seattle PI picked up the "story" of a porn video company making an unsolicited monetary offer to Knox to feature in one of their productions. To anyone with a reasoned mind and a capacity to think clearly, this was clearly nothing more than a crass and distasteful publicity stunt by the porn company, which had nothing whatsoever to do with anything instigated from Knox's side. It was therefore total and utter non-news; and, what's more it was a story rooted in sexism and degradation of women.

Therefore, if any serious media outlet was going to run a piece about this "story", it ought to have been a meta-article about the disgustingly poor taste and inherent sexism that it illustrates. The Seattle PI, however, chose to run it as a straight story, with a dose of tongue-in-cheek chuckling thrown in for good measure:

http://blog.seattlepi.com/thebigblo...re-than-20k-to-star-in-porn-video/#20507101=0


Now, here's another interesting thing about this. There were (are) a number of reader comments below the article that essentially make the salient points that this is nothing to do with Knox, and that it's also a tawdry exhibition of (and implicit endorsement of) a creeping sort of sexism and woman-objectivism. Which it is. But even stranger is the fact that Peggy Ganong has chosen to comment on the article and its reaction. In her comment, she's opined that people should be "laughing" at the story rather than pointing out its rather obvious flaws and social failings. And this from a woman who, if I remember correctly, positions herself as some sort of proto-feminist. It's interesting and instructive because it tells us very clearly that Ganong is readily willing to abdicate her own beliefs and core values if it means having the opportunity to denigrate a personal hate figure (Amanda Knox). She's an intellectual midget and a sad, bitter little woman. Shame on her.

It's hard to believe anyone is finding any meaning at all in this bit of news. Porn companies make these offers all the time, to every famous person. As one poster wrote:

MIXCOATL
How insulting. Octomom was offered a hell of a lot more than $20k

 

[AmyStrange]

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I do think that it's highly ironic (and very illuminating) that a poster who never tires of pontificating that he will post exactly what he likes, when he likes it, is simultaneously implicitly instructing other posters to respond to a particular post (and chiding them for not doing so). Sceptical, huh?
In related news, here's something I find very interesting about commentary related to this case. The Seattle PI picked up the "story" of a porn video company making an unsolicited monetary offer to Knox to feature in one of their productions. To anyone with a reasoned mind and a capacity to think clearly, this was clearly nothing more than a crass and distasteful publicity stunt by the porn company, which had nothing whatsoever to do with anything instigated from Knox's side. It was therefore total and utter non-news; and, what's more it was a story rooted in sexism and degradation of women.

Therefore, if any serious media outlet was going to run a piece about this "story", it ought to have been a meta-article about the disgustingly poor taste and inherent sexism that it illustrates. The Seattle PI, however, chose to run it as a straight story, with a dose of tongue-in-cheek chuckling thrown in for good measure:

http://blog.seattlepi.com/thebigblo...re-than-20k-to-star-in-porn-video/#20507101=0
-


Now, here's another interesting thing about this. There were (are) a number of reader comments below the article that essentially make the salient points that this is nothing to do with Knox, and that it's also a tawdry exhibition of (and implicit endorsement of) a creeping sort of sexism and woman-objectivism. Which it is. But even stranger is the fact that Peggy Ganong has chosen to comment on the article and its reaction. In her comment, she's opined that people should be "laughing" at the story rather than pointing out its rather obvious flaws and social failings. And this from a woman who, if I remember correctly, positions herself as some sort of proto-feminist. It's interesting and instructive because it tells us very clearly that Ganong is readily willing to abdicate her own beliefs and core values if it means having the opportunity to denigrate a personal hate figure (Amanda Knox). She's an intellectual midget and a sad, bitter little woman. Shame on her.

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I agree it's kind of ironic, but that's lionking's right, just as it's anybody's right to ignore any post they want to here.

I don't agree with his selection, but I definitely understand his reasoning and agree with it to a point,

d

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[Desert Fox]

That is both interesting and ironic that the Italian prison health care system provides lots of psychiatrists. Ironic in this case for two reasons:

Mignini had Raffaele kept in solitary confinement for six months during the year it took Mignini to charge Raffaele with a crime. You wonder what Mignini was trying to do to Raffaele? Maybe get him to break down psychologically so he would be mallable in Mignini's hands? Maybe get Raffaele to change his testimony that he and Amanda were at his place together the evening and night of the murder? Good thing they have psychiatrists on standby.

The second reason it is ironic that the Italian prison system has lots of psychiatrists is because someone in Capanne prison's health care staff informed Amanda falsely that she tested positive for HIV. They kept her terrified for several weeks. And prompted her to write down the names of her intimate partners which the prison or prosecutor leaked to the news media.

There is a lot of irony in this case. . . Things that are suppose to help which do the direct opposite.

The judge needing to write down his motivation for a verdict should be a good thing but it became an order to convict from the Surpreme Court.

I can understand wanting to cut one's hair in prison. Easy to keep clean, less of a danger in a prison altercation, and others. Thisd puts her in front of the prison psychologist.