Continuation Part Seven: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

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I think I am losing hope that this situation will ever be corrected.

In any country injustice can happen, but most can safely rely on the free press and news to be the watchdog looking into suspicious activities even from within a foul government.

Italy has no such safety available. And so your pessimistic view is quite warranted IMHO.
 
Interesting. You don't suppose . . . ? This intimate item, Meredith's bra clasp, wasn't just lying on the floor in the open. It had moved, been stepped on (the metal hooks were crushed), and was supposedly "found" under a rug. Then how did they find it? As I understand, a helpful police officer who was seen on video glancing toward the rug went to the rug and (supposedly) pulled it out from under there, off-camera. It was then handed to Stefanoni on camera who handled it like it was a lost jewel, fondling it with her dirty glove and possibly wiping a dirty-gloved finger on the metal hooks herself (shielding that last move from the camera's view). She then put it back on the floor to be photographed on the floor, in situ, a move that in the US might be interpreted as staging evidence for the camera. She then picked it up and triumphantly showed it off. So I repeat, you don't suppose . . . ?


I wouldn't say it was stepped on. Especially not It was stepped on between the initial discovery and the eventual collection. Stepping on the hooks would collapse them whereas it is clear in the attached photos the hooks have opened up. See Post 8735 showing the collapsed hook

ETA: Attachment replaced with unretouched photos.
 

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Excellent reply Rose. I saw both Kill Bill Volume 1 and 2 as well as "The Saw", Halloween, Friday the 13th, The Silence of the Lambs and other pretty sick movies and I have never committed any violent acts either. What is wrong with us? Frankly, "Criminal Minds" gives me the heebie jeebies.

An interesting thought experiment is to look around your own house for evidence that some would see as proof you are a deranged serial killer. The Dexter DVDs in my collection are a dead giveaway.
 
An interesting thought experiment is to look around your own house for evidence that some would see as proof you are a deranged serial killer. The Dexter DVDs in my collection are a dead giveaway.

Pretty sure my browsing history showing interest in murder cases would doom me. They wouldn't even need to see an old comic preserved in plastic wrap.
 
Interesting. You don't suppose . . . ? This intimate item, Meredith's bra clasp, wasn't just lying on the floor in the open. It had moved, been stepped on (the metal hooks were crushed), and was supposedly "found" under a rug. Then how did they find it? As I understand, a helpful police officer who was seen on video glancing toward the rug went to the rug and (supposedly) pulled it out from under there, off-camera. It was then handed to Stefanoni on camera who handled it like it was a lost jewel, fondling it with her dirty glove and possibly wiping a dirty-gloved finger on the metal hooks herself (shielding that last move from the camera's view). She then put it back on the floor to be photographed on the floor, in situ, a move that in the US might be interpreted as staging evidence for the camera. She then picked it up and triumphantly showed it off. So I repeat, you don't suppose . . . ?

I have always thought the bra clasp discovery was very strange. They go back after 46 days, after they discover that they have NOTHING on Raffaele now that clearly the shoe prints don't match his shoes and they discover the bra clasp in such a "theatrical way". Maybe this is all just a coincidence, but frankly I don't believe in coincidences.
 
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An interesting thought experiment is to look around your own house for evidence that some would see as proof you are a deranged serial killer. The Dexter DVDs in my collection are a dead giveaway.
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half the books in my library are serial killer related. I must have murdered a whole crap load of people and not even know it,

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I have a different plan: if you get called to the police station more than once, or at night . . . RUN AWAY! You can mail your wallet card to them.

The "Visit Italy" version of the tourists' legal insurance plan comes with an English/Italian wallet card asserting your legal rights, plus a postage-paid envelope addressed to the Questura, a tin of spam, two chocolate bars, and a WW II pilot's silk scarf printed with a map showing escape routes over the Alps to neutral Switzerland. :D
 
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An interesting thought experiment is to look around your own house for evidence that some would see as proof you are a deranged serial killer. The Dexter DVDs in my collection are a dead giveaway.


You don't need to just think about it. Forensic blue and UV LED flashlights are readily available and you can even purchase Luminol and spot-check kits for semen.
 
An interesting thought experiment is to look around your own house for evidence that some would see as proof you are a deranged serial killer. The Dexter DVDs in my collection are a dead giveaway.

I have the book "Waiting to Be Heard". Does that count?
 
The protocols she skipped and lied about are the ones where she determines if there was anything on the blade or anything on the swab she extracted. That's rather important if you stop and think of it! The 'too low' is the same result she would get if there was nothing on the swab when she extracted it. That lab processed hundreds of item with Meredith Kercher's DNA, there was nothing on the knife except debris and food particles which show the knife wasn't scrubbed clean to remove all blood traces and it tested negative for blood with the two tests Stefanoni performed and the one the independent experts did. As she got the same result as nothing when she tried to quantify what she extracted, the irresistible inference is that that smidgin of DNA came from her lab. It registered 'peaks' of 20-40 RFUs (as opposed to 1000-2000) which with an Identifiler kit and 28 cycles suggests around 10 picograms of material, around 1 nanogram (1000 picograms) is what that equipment is designed for. One reason for those minimum DNA thresholds (she used 100 RFUs on most samples, 50 RFUs was the lowest in use at the time) is to prevent 'profiling' contamination.

However she lied about the amount in court, claiming she quantified it with Real Time PCR amplification and got a result of 'some hundreds of picograms.' At that juncture her (paper) records weren't available and they avoided allowing the defense to see them until July 30th, 2009 which is where much of this was discovered, including her lies about the TMB negatives she also hid. To this day she has managed to avoid releasing the EDFs, the electronic data which those electopherograms are generated off of, defying the request of the independent experts and the judge.

So to make a long story shorter, there's no reason to think that DNA was ever on the blade and numerous reasons to think it wasn't. There's no reason to think it was even in the sample she put into the extractor, and in fact she could even have photoshopped it, though that's not what she did, instead she just advanced contamination as evidence and lied about it to hide that.

To use your example it would be the equivalent of the police finding absolutely nothing in the trunk, but taking out the trunk rug and claiming to the court they'd found a pill. Then when the records were shown it was determined there was no pill, instead she tested the trunk rug in a lab which tested hundreds of items with ecstasy dust and what she actually claimed she found tested negative first but then when performing more tests in that dirty lab claimed she found 1% of a pill by ignoring the lab rules which automatically discount that as they know that picking up minute quantities like that happens when you test hundreds of items that do have ecstasy dust on them. Oh, and she refuses to actually show the results of the test but just a piece of paper that says she found a minute amount of dust and won't let you see the entire results of those tests come hell or high water.

I read somewhere in the last court Crini didn't even pretend there was Meredith's DNA on the blade anymore, he just used the knife anyway as it had Amanda's DNA on the handle because she used it to cook with. I await further information on that.



That makes it so much clearer!!! Great post!
 
An interesting thought experiment is to look around your own house for evidence that some would see as proof you are a deranged serial killer. The Dexter DVDs in my collection are a dead giveaway.

If one vampire comic was enough to condemn Raffaele, I wonder what they would have thought of my complete collection of "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" and "Angel" DVDs? Twelve seasons, 250+ episodes of vampires getting slaughtered.

Some of those vampires had sex too. Some of them were sexy female vampires!

Whedon fans in Italy, be afraid. Be very afraid! Mignini is on to you!
 
An interesting thought experiment is to look around your own house for evidence that some would see as proof you are a deranged serial killer. The Dexter DVDs in my collection are a dead giveaway.

I do that all the time now. I cut myself shaving the other day. I was really worried about mixed blood. What if my husband had a nosebleed in the bathroom resulting in mixed blood? And then was murdered by an intruder? And then somebody read this post? And what floor cleaner does my cleaning lady use? Does it react with luminol? :p
 
Mignini's standard is lower than BARD

Gumbel quoted Mignini, "Yes it’s true you need to find the defendants guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, as the high court has said, but the high court was merely codifying a principle that already existed in our jurisprudence […] It doesn’t mean you need to find the absolute truth, which is the province of God alone […] You need only be certain enough for the purposes of a trial. What does that mean? It means two things, essentially: that the reconstruction of the facts is based on logic, and that its elements are not in contradiction with each other."

There are two problems here. One is that this is a much lower standard than beyond a reasonable doubt. Two is that I am not sure that Massei or anybody else can write a self-consistent narrative from the PG perspective. Sometimes Amanda and Raffaele seem to be clothed and wearing shoes; sometimes they are naked. They are in the square when they should be at the women's flat, and so forth.
 
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Not only that, but I read somewhere that more than half the dust you clean up in your house is dried, dead skin which I'm sure has some DNA in it,
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Actually no...I don't think dried dead skin does contain DNA. Just like a dead hair likely contains no DNA but that a freshly pulled out hair would as would live skin cells...but as for the flying DNA impossibility myth?

Anyone who has ever had or seen spit fly from their own mouth while speaking or else a had a gob of it projected onto their faces while in a conversation has had volumes of DNA that actually flew onto them or else they caused to fly onto someone else. And not LCN/LTN traces but large measurable volumes that would never come up as "too low" on any quantification test!

A sneeze would be another perfect example of flying DNA.

Germs fly, viruses fly, DNA flies...in Italy however science and facts do not matter. Its all about feelings. Nothing more than feelings.
 
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Oops, the clasp was stepped on.

The perspective of the photo when the clasp was found hid the fact that one of the hooks had been crushed.

Sorry about the disinfo :boxedin:
 

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I think I am losing hope that this situation will ever be corrected.

It will.

If experience is any guide, it will take quite a few years. People will retire and move on, but the truth of what happened will never change. Someday, Amanda and Raffaele will be legally exonerated.

It took Lindy Chamberlain 32 years. I'm hoping we can do better for Amanda and Raffaele.
 
Why aren't the Kerchers going to the media and trumpeting their outrage about Guede being allowed out of prison?

Great question. A whole day has now passed. Anything from the Kerchers? Maresca? Harry Rag? Stephani at least? Nothing? Where is the honor and memory of Mez?

As a reminder Rudy Guede DNA was found inside Mez vagina! Hello!

Crickets...that's what I thought. Damn odd affair.
 
Actually no...I don't think dried dead skin does contain DNA. Just like a dead hair likely contains no DNA but that a freshly pulled out hair would as would live skin cells...but as for the flying DNA impossibility myth?

Anyone who has ever had or seen spit fly from their own mouth while speaking or else a had a gob of it projected onto their faces while in a conversation has had volumes of DNA that actually flew onto them or else they caused to fly onto someone else. And not LCN/LTN traces but large measurable volumes that would never come up as "too low" on any quantification test!

A sneeze would be another perfect example of flying DNA.

Germs fly, viruses fly, DNA flies...in Italy however science and facts do not matter. Its all about feelings. Nothing more than feelings.
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Hair itself doesn't have DNA, it's the hair roots that do.

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Because he's poor. Because he was the poor, innocent dupe of evil Amanda and rich Raffaele and he made amends by changing his story to finger Amanda and he's really sorry about his DNA being inside Meredith's corpse's vagina and that makes it okay.

OK I saw what you did there.

But I still remain puzzled about the Kerchers seeming silence and unconcern about Guede in spite of clear and overwhelming evidence that he had some major part in her robbery, rape and murder even if they think like the crazy ISC and proclaim that Guede had accomplices...without evidence of that at all.

Why remain silent at news of Guede release for college education? Something he clearly robbed from their daughter along with her life.

I find that to be distressing and dishonorable and odd! Where is Maresca? Where is the sound bite? What will it take for the Kerchers to open their eyes and see what Italy allowed and continues to allow to happen to their daughter and now her memory?

Guede is being released (after a whole 6 years) daily to attend college certainly at government expense. And his lawyer states that this is fine and expected since it happens for everyone in Italy. As if he was found guilty of some minor felony...rather than robbing, raping and knife murder followed by a couple of rounds of disco dancing.

If there is some logic in this somewhere and somehow then I must be in the wrong world because this really seems like a story from the Twilight Zone. But then I remember this is from the country where their own SC overturns the conviction of a 60 year old pedophile because the 11 year old girl may have loved him.

And the people rise up and.....???

No they only bahhhh like the sheep they are. Shameless sheep. Who will guard your babies from these wolves?

No one guarded MK before her murder and no one guards her justice after. Not police, not prosecutor, not even her parents. Bahhhh.
 
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