Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[000063]

What does this even mean?

Seconded.

Good work. That was an oral vaccine which would be processed by the digestive system. How about the injected MMR or injected Daptacel liquid vaccine?

Are you just going to keep moving goalposts until every single vaccine, ever, is broken down?

 

[Tomtomkent]

Are you just going to keep moving goalposts until every single vaccine, ever, is broken down?

This was already covered when explaining that the destination of something in the blood was not the digestive tract.

 

[Yerushalmi]

Good work. That was an oral vaccine which would be processed by the digestive system. How about the injected MMR or injected Daptacel liquid vaccine?

I don't have the time to spend the rest of my life looking up every single one of the thousand chemicals listed on that PDF. I picked one at random and investigated it and not one chemical turned out to be dangerous in the quantities present or unremovable from the body.

How about we switch it around? Tell me which specific chemical you're worried about that sits in the body forever.

 

[Clayton Moore]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/27/us-vaccine-gsk-narcolepsy-idUSBRE91Q0AG20130227

(Reuters) - GlaxoSmithKline's Pandemrix swine flu vaccine has been linked to cases of the rare sleep disorder narcolepsy in children in a scientific study in England that confirms similar findings elsewhere in Europe.

The vaccine, more than 30 million doses of which were given during the H1N1 flu pandemic in 2009-2010, contains a booster, or adjuvant, and may have triggered an adverse immune reaction in some children at higher genetic risk of narcolepsy, scientists said in new research published on Wednesday.

Researchers at Britain's Health Protection Agency (HPA) who published the study in the British Medical Journal said the at least 14-fold increased risk they found had "implications for the future licensing and use of adjuvanted pandemic vaccines".

Narcolepsy is a life-long disorder and thought to be an autoimmune disease in which patient's immune system attacks the body's own cells. Its symptoms include frequent bouts of daytime sleepiness and in its severe forms it also causes night terrors, hallucinations and cataplexies - when strong emotions trigger a sudden loss of muscle strength.

Begging the question, "Will I ever be wrong?"

 

[Estellea]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/27/us-vaccine-gsk-narcolepsy-idUSBRE91Q0AG20130227

Begging the question, "Will I ever be wrong?"

Yes.

Would you like to discuss this adjuvant which is only used in some EU influenza vaccines? OK but what will that have to do with your original contention that vaccines cause autism?

Este

 

[Robrob]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/27/us-vaccine-gsk-narcolepsy-idUSBRE91Q0AG20130227

(Reuters) - GlaxoSmithKline's Pandemrix swine flu vaccine has been linked to cases of the rare sleep disorder narcolepsy in children in a scientific study in England that confirms similar findings elsewhere in Europe.

The vaccine, more than 30 million doses of which were given during the H1N1 flu pandemic in 2009-2010, contains a booster, or adjuvant, and may have triggered an adverse immune reaction in some children at higher genetic risk of narcolepsy, scientists said in new research published on Wednesday.

Begging the question, "Will I ever be wrong?"

The answer being, pretty much every time you post.

If your read the article rather than just skimming the title you'd know better.

Notice the wording in the article, "may have" and "some?"

30,000,000 shots. 800 possibly linked cases. Of people falling asleep? This is related to your frequent claims of autism, how?

 

[Yerushalmi]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/27/us-vaccine-gsk-narcolepsy-idUSBRE91Q0AG20130227





Begging the question, "Will I ever be wrong?"

Compare 800 cases of narcolepsy, which will never be repeated because they now know that you shouldn't use that particular adjuvant anymore, the millions of people who used to die each year from the flu. Which would you prefer?

ETA:
Furthermore, there's nothing here about a chemical sitting in the body forever. The adjuvant triggers the reaction and then leaves. Not only that, but this side effect was present only in a tiny fraction of people (800 cases out of 30 million doses is a 0.00027% risk! Compare that with 41,400 people in the US who die every year from the flu!

 

[Clayton Moore]

http://beforeitsnews.com/power-elit...ter-public-flu-shot-with-dr-oz-2-2441156.html

Just two days after it was reported that GlaxoSmithKline’s Pandemrix H1N1 swine flu vaccine has actually caused a whopping 800 cases of narcolepsy in children according to Reuters, a major publicity stunt for the efficacy of the flu shot as presented by CNN has crashed and burned.

After receiving his very first flu shot live on air from vaccine advocate Dr. Oz in attempt to showcase the ‘safety and effectiveness of the shot’, Piers Morgan has now developed flu-like symptoms that even he and his guest have attributed to the reception of the shot.

In the January 23 interview with country music celebrity Dwight Yoakam, Piers and Dwight discuss the connection between the recent shot and his new sickness. In the interview, which can be seen below, Piers asks “…As you can tell, things are deteriorating. Is there any advice you can give me?”

Yoakam replies with a simple “Don’t ever take a flu shot again,” sparking further discussion surrounding the public injection that ultimately turned into a PR nightmare for Big Pharma.

In a surprising reply, Piers says ““We’re both doing the math, so I mean, we both saw him put that thing in my arm and within 10 days I’m struck down.” It was Piers’ first flu shot in his life, according to his own testimony.

What do you think? Nonsense fabrications?

 

[Mudcat]

Are you just going to keep moving goalposts until every single vaccine, ever, is broken down?

Has anyone seen the goal posts lately? Last I have checked I think I heard that they have been hurtling past Skaro.

 

[Estellea]

http://beforeitsnews.com/power-elit...ter-public-flu-shot-with-dr-oz-2-2441156.html




What do you think? Nonsense fabrications?

Of course. The GSK vaccine did not cause "a whopping 800 cases" of narcolepsy; that's how many were reported and there is a difference between baseline cases and cases over and above which may be attributed to the adjuvant. Secondly, the inactivated influenza vaccine cannot give you the flu. Would you like to guess why? There are many respiratory illnesses co-circulating when people get their flu jabs and it's not unusual for one to be incubating another illness, get the jab, show "flu-like symptoms" and attribute it to the flu vaccine. There is also another possibility that some feel some mild malaise after getting a flu jab due to the immune response. This is transient and harmless and a talking head along with a country music singer are hardly authorities on biology. And just to be clear, their jabs did not contain AS03.

Este

 

[Jrrarglblarg]

Regarding flu shots, the military uses a formulation/dosage that's broader in coverage (ie, strain of virus, not just the virus-of-the-year sold at Walgreens but other strains as well to ensure broader coverage for people who might travel into other germ pools) and amount of the killed virus in the shot is greater.

Every year they give me one I go home from drill and go straight to bed with fatigue and low grade (99 or 100F) fever. Not the flu, but a massive immune system activation that draws hard on the body's resources. By the next day I feel fine, and I haven't had the flu the entire time I've been playing Army. Colds on the other hand . . .

Also, the shots are kept chilled, so unless you get one that's been sitting on the desk for a few minutes they are more uncomfortable going in. But usually the soldiers giving the shots have had plenty of practice and are absolute rock stars about getting the needle in and out painlessly.


* Citation: none, really, just anecdotal. Sorry. I asked a military doctor about it one year and she told me the above.

 

[000063]

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/02/27/us-vaccine-gsk-narcolepsy-idUSBRE91Q0AG20130227





Begging the question, "Will I ever be wrong?"

:

Please don't leave yourself open like that.

http://beforeitsnews.com/power-elit...ter-public-flu-shot-with-dr-oz-2-2441156.html




What do you think? Nonsense fabrications?

Yes, country music stars are medical experts now.

 

[Clayton Moore]

Split from the "what do you guys believe?" thread here.

Posted By: LashL

The proof of the pudding that there are conspiracies at high levels of society is media's insistence that there are NONE.

Let's see. Big pharma and the mainstream media insist vaccines are absolutely safe but close to NONE of the vaccines are tested with a control group. They have convinced much of the American public that questioning the safety of vaccines is criminal.

Yet commercial after commercial airs up front and personal that if you've taken DRUG X, Y, or Z contact my law firm. Now you know those drugs, I think ZOLOFT is the star of the newer ripe for litigation drugs, were supposed to be tested with a control group! What happened.

And the media pretty much crucifies anyone who dares suggest a link between autism and vaccines. Why would the media trust and speak out for an industry/community with such a poor drug testing track record?

Yes.

Would you like to discuss this adjuvant which is only used in some EU influenza vaccines? OK but what will that have to do with your original contention that vaccines cause autism?

Este

There's the first post. What was my contention again?

 

[TheRedWorm]

There's the first post. What was my contention again?

It can be difficult to keep track, what with all the goalpost shifting and Gish galloping, so how about this: post a biologically plausible mechanism for vaccines to cause whatever it is you think they cause.

 

[Dcdrac]

clayton your contention has been shown to be false vaccines provably do not cause autism and the fraud wakefield who created the hysteria about vaccines causing autism deserved to be crucified by the media he has caused actual real injury and harm.

 

[Yerushalmi]

http://beforeitsnews.com/power-elit...ter-public-flu-shot-with-dr-oz-2-2441156.html




What do you think? Nonsense fabrications?

Okay, first of all - are you going to simply ignore what I said in response to the narcolepsy thing, or are you going to address it?

Second of all, the flu shot is known to sometimes cause a minor illness. Key word: sometimes. My wife, my children, and I have gotten vaccines every year for the past four or five years, and you know what? Sometimes we get a bit sick afterwards. But we don't get the flu, and we don't die. That's the point.

 

[Yerushalmi]

1) The rise in autism diagnosis is attributed far more to changes in diagnosis criteria than it is to an actual increase in autism prevalence.

2) Unless you can prove that a higher percentage of vaccinated than unvaccinated children get autism, your point is moot. Even if there is an autism epidemic, it can't be the fault of the vaccines if it's no less prevalent among the unvaccinated.

 

[Yerushalmi]

The reason I take vaccination so seriously, Clayton, is because not doing so literally endangers the lives of my children. As anti-vax attitudes increase, the percentage of people who get vaccinated drops. Once that percentage gets below herd immunity, epidemics can break out again. And given that no vaccine is perfect (some provide immunity to 99% of those who receive it, others only as low as 70%), that means there's a non-zero chance that my children aren't immune. Which means that if you don't vaccinate your kids, you're not just risking their lives, you're risking them infecting my kids too.

 

[Clayton Moore]

1) The rise in autism diagnosis is attributed far more to changes in diagnosis criteria than it is to an actual increase in autism prevalence.

2) Unless you can prove that a higher percentage of vaccinated than unvaccinated children get autism, your point is moot. Even if there is an autism epidemic, it can't be the fault of the vaccines if it's no less prevalent among the unvaccinated.

From 1 in 1000 to 1 in 50. Must be the diagnosis.

http://www.vaccinationcouncil.org/2...ficial-vaccinated-vs-unvaccinated-study-final


http://www.endowmentmed.org/content/view/284/35/

No Autism in Unvaccinated Amish Community

 

[Yerushalmi]

From 1 in 1000 to 1 in 50. Must be the diagnosis.

Given that 1 in 7 children in the US are taking some sort of psychiatric medication, it doesn't surprise me that diagnosis rates are so high (in fact, I'm surprised it's that low). Autism, like many other psychological diseases, is very overdiagnosed. I have zero doubt that were my wife and I children now, we'd both be assigned the Asperger's label.

http://www.endowmentmed.org/content/view/284/35/

No Autism in Unvaccinated Amish Community

That's not a valid comparison to make. Amish communities are not exposed to preservatives in their food, are not exposed to electric devices, are not exposed to city pollution, etc., etc. To figure out whether or not vaccines cause autism, you need to take two groups of people who are identical in every way possible except for the presence or absence of a vaccine. That way you narrow down the cause to the vaccine. After all, your headline could easily read any of the following and be equally true:

No Autism in iPhoneless Amish Community
No Autism in Amish Community That Doesn't Wear Ralph Lauren Shirts
No Autism in Non-Jewish Amish Community
No Autism in Pornography-free Amish Community
No Autism in Horse-Riding Amish Community

Since all of these assertions are equally valid, where do you get the idea that it's the vaccines doing it? How do you know autism isn't caused by iPhones, Ralph Lauren shirts, Judaism, pornography, or lack of access to horses?