Vaccine/autism CT discussion

[Reality Check]

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/lawrence-solomon/vaccine-skeptics_b_4548510.html?just_reloaded=1


Why the Press Shouldn't Dismiss Vaccine Skeptics

Fairly irrelevant to this thread, Clayton Moore.
It does falsify your assertion in the OP - this is the mainstream media emphasizing concerns about vaccine safety.

It is an opinion piece. It relies on the fallacy of argument from authority ( Dr. Bernadine Healy, etc.). If nothing else this implies cherry-picking the experts who support the author's existing opinion. This is emphasized by the lack of citations of experts on the other side or even to sources of credible vaccination facts like the CDC.

No credible scientist would be against "mass" vaccination, i.e. people voluntarily vaccinating. The need for herd immunity to prevent disease outbreaks is simple science. The recent measles outbreaks linked to low rates of vaccination is a example of this need.

On the other hand mandatory vaccination is tricky and complex issue.

There are anti-vaccination organizations who ignore or misrepresent the science, e.g. think that there is a link between vaccines and autism when there is scientific evidence that there is no such link. They are dismissed by the press because of that ignorance or misrepresentation.

 

[Robrob]

Why are 2014 doctors so afraid of a child getting the measles when the 1950s doctors and parents were not?

Before we get too far down the rabbit hole, I'd really like for you to address your claim.

Could you provide some evidence for this assertion of fact?

 

[catsmate]

That's not a valid comparison to make. Amish communities are not exposed to preservatives in their food, are not exposed to electric devices, are not exposed to city pollution, etc., etc. To figure out whether or not vaccines cause autism, you need to take two groups of people who are identical in every way possible except for the presence or absence of a vaccine. That way you narrow down the cause to the vaccine. After all, your headline could easily read any of the following and be equally true:

No Autism in iPhoneless Amish Community
No Autism in Amish Community That Doesn't Wear Ralph Lauren Shirts
No Autism in Non-Jewish Amish Community
No Autism in Pornography-free Amish Community
No Autism in Horse-Riding Amish Community

Since all of these assertions are equally valid, where do you get the idea that it's the vaccines doing it? How do you know autism isn't caused by iPhones, Ralph Lauren shirts, Judaism, pornography, or lack of access to horses?

Except, as has been pointed out, CM's "point" simply doesn't exist; autism/ASD does occur amongst Amish.

Ah yes, the so-called 'Amish Anomoly'. An invention by an anti-vaxx crank who never probably never even went to Amish country and certainly didn't talk to doctors who treat autism there.

http://web.archive.org/web/20130627141910/http://autism-news-beat.com/archives/29

Indeed. Even back on 2010 this "anomaly" was discussed;

Preliminary data have identified the presence of ASD in the Amish community at a rate of approximately 1 in 271 children using standard ASD screening and diagnostic tools although some modifications may be in order. Further studies are underway to address the cultural norms and customs that may be playing a role in the reporting style of caregivers, as observed by the ADI. Accurate determination of the ASD phenotype in the Amish is a first step in the design of genetic studies of ASD in this population.

 

[Slowvehicle]

Worth a read:
http://world.time.com/2014/01/12/india-polio-free-for-three-years/

 

[Loss Leader]

Previous modbox directions are rescinded. The thread remains on Moderated status. Thank you for trying this experiment, though ultimately unsuccessful.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: Loss Leader

 

[Hans]

Worth a read:
http://world.time.com/2014/01/12/india-polio-free-for-three-years/

Just to add another article on the same subject a vaccine success

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-25708715

 

[Dcdrac]

Some useful information from the World Health Organization

http://www.who.int/immunization/newsroom/events/immunization_week/2012/further_information/en/

 

[Estellea]

I have a challenge for Clayton Moore which is to please explain how it is mostly unvaccinated people becoming infected with measles as well as to find some evidence that more harms were caused by MMR vaccine than the actual disease (bear in mind that these stats are only for measles and not for rubella and mumps).
http://pediatrics.about.com/od/measles/a/measles-outbreaks.htm

Of the 8,067 cases of measles in the European Union in the past 12 months, 82% were unvaccinated, 13% were not fully vaccinated, and only 4% had received two doses of the MMR vaccine. There were also 5 cases of measles encephalitis, a serious complication of measles, and one person has died.

It's time he quantifies his claims.

Este

 

[FrederickEason]

Shouldn't the treatment of childhood diseases have improved, with the advent of super computers, to close to removing death and serious complications as a worst case(s) for most childhood diseases?

Yes. Vaccines were developed, which prevent complications from occurring, thus "removing" them.

 

[Chris Haynes]

Yes. Vaccines were developed, which prevent complications from occurring, thus "removing" them.

As the old saying goes: an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

 

[cjnewson88]

The true cost of anti-vaccination campaigners and conspiracy theorists.

"Measles could have been eradicated in New Zealand by now if it were not for anti-vaccine campaigners and conspiracy theorists, public health experts say."

This article appeared this morning and really highlights the dangers of anti-vaccination groups. And these people wonder why I get so angry at them?

two more cases of measles are diagnosed in Auckland, adding to about 30 cases nationwide since December.

preventable outbreaks include 274 cases of whooping cough in Auckland in 2012, and 328 in the West Coast that same year. Also highlighted are hundreds of measles of cases nationwide since 2008.

I hope you anti-vaccination fear mungers realise that every child who dies or is left permanently damaged by preventable illnesses, their death is on your hands.

 

[Clayton Moore]

http://preventdisease.com/news/14/0...ic-Childrens-Brains-Doubled-Last-7years.shtml

Feb 18, 2014 by DAVE MIHALOVIC
Vaccines A Major Source of Toxicity

Vaccines have been particularly problematic for introducing toxins into children. Despite thimerosal (a mercury-based preservative) being banned by the FDA, 60% of all flu vaccines still contain this deadly neurotoxin. The following scientific publications document the adverse effects of mercury, merthiolate and ethyl mercury.

All it takes is a little reading. You owe it to your children and grandchildren. Once fragile DNA becomes injured/mutated, and IT'S MESSAGE is incorrect, it cannot heal itself. The bloodline becomes less successful.

Will the lurking posters PLEASE speak up against vaccines and help spread the alarm.


http://www.umdf.org/site/pp.aspx?c=8qKOJ0MvF7LUG&b=7934627

 

[Clayton Moore]

http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/study-reveals-unavoidable-danger-hpv-vaccines


Posted on:
Monday, February 17th 2014 at 6:00 am
Written By:
Sayer Ji, Founder


How can people believe that hpv vaccine is safe when so many young women have died or become severely disabled from it?

 

[Alareth]

DAVE MIHALOVIC

Dave Mihalovic is not exactly a credible source <snip>

Let's take a look at how easy it has been to tear apart Mihalovic's work in the past.

http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/nine-questions-nine-answers/

Edited by Loss Leader: 

Edited. Moderated Thread.

 

[Border Reiver]

Clayton, the primary source for your lead article is EWG, a group well known for claiming the the goal of every company that produces food, medicine, cosmetics, or the containers that they are stored in is out to poison us all.

 

[turingtest]

http://preventdisease.com/news/14/0...ic-Childrens-Brains-Doubled-Last-7years.shtml

Feb 18, 2014 by DAVE MIHALOVIC
Vaccines A Major Source of Toxicity




All it takes is a little reading. You owe it to your children and grandchildren. Once fragile DNA becomes injured/mutated, and IT'S MESSAGE is incorrect, it cannot heal itself. The bloodline becomes less successful.

Will the lurking posters PLEASE speak up against vaccines and help spread the alarm.


http://www.umdf.org/site/pp.aspx?c=8qKOJ0MvF7LUG&b=7934627

Clayton, I've read both your links twice; and I have to tell you, I see nothing in the first article that even implies (much less states outright) anything about "DNA becom[ing] injured/mutated," or "IT'S MESSAGE" (or a bloodline) becoming corrupted, as a result of vaccines. And I see nothing in the second article that implicates vaccines in mitochondrial DNA disease. Maybe you can point out the link between the two from the articles; but, as it is, it just seems to me that you're standing on a street corner with a sign in one hand that shouts "Vaccines!!" and another sign in the other hand that shouts "DNA corruption!!!"- and the only real link between the two is you holding the signs.

"A little reading" is fine; a little more understanding of what you're reading would be better, I think.

 

[CORed]

Why are 2014 doctors so afraid of a child getting the measles when the 1950s doctors and parents were not?

Shouldn't the treatment of childhood diseases have improved, with the advent of super computers, to close to removing death and serious complications as a worst case(s) for most childhood diseases?

It turns out that super computers don't actually cure virus (or any other) diseases. For that matter, why treat a disease when you can prevent it altogether?

Your fantasies about imaginary dangers of the vaccine are not an answer.

 

[grmcdorman]

I'm lurking, and I do not buy into the anti-vaccine nonsense. I find your evidence lacking at best and at worst intentionally misleading.

 

[BangBang]

I'm a lurker on this thread and if people can't see that the death rate from diseases that are now vaccinated has fallen dramatically, in some cases to to zero, then those people are simply denying reality.

A question for Clayton Moore. What do you think would happen if vaccinations were stopped? What affect would diphtheria, whooping cough, small pox, measles, mumps, german measles (no it isn't the same as measles) etc have in our communities?

 

[JayUtah]

Will the lurking posters PLEASE speak up against vaccines and help spread the alarm.

I've lurked in this thread for a year, and I'm convinced that very nearly everything you've posted in it has turned out to be Grade-A nonsense.