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Dean Clifford Discussion Thread

D'rok said:
. . .the Manitoba court registry shows that Clifford breached a previous recognizance in April 2010, and an order forfeiting the $500 surety was issued. . .he was out on $500 bail, not his own super-skills, and then left some poor sucker holding the bag when he didn't abide by the conditions of his release. In other words, the honourable freeman broke a contract and someone else had to pay.

Cheat the province, cheat your friends and family. That's the Clifford way. It's the FOTL way, really.
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D'rok said:
Possibly the most despicably self-serving of all Clifford's ********, is his justification for driving without insurance.

It breaks down into two points:
  1. Everyone is automatically insured through their birth bond
  2. It's not Clifford's responsibility to buy insurance to cover other drivers who are scared to lose their life or property on the road

He explicitly states that if he causes harm, the government pays because they hold his share of Canada's resources in trust for him. . . the Manitoba Public Insurance Corporation. . .has a judgment against him for $50,696.07, presumably an action for recovery of benefits stemming from an accident involving an uninsured Clifford.

In other words, Clifford caused harm and didn't take responsibility. The insurance company paid, and now has to try and collect from the deadbeat FOTLer.
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So he's like Menard except he has a history of larger thefts/frauds and a rage problem?
 
Somewhere, Rob Menard is crying in his bong at someone stealing his thunder. I bet he acts up so he gets back on the radar.
 
arayder said:
So he's like Menard except he has a history of larger thefts/frauds and a rage problem?
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I'd say so. And his willingness to do more than dine and dash and ride public transit without paying means that he is also suffering more serious consequences.

Assuming that hrp at WFS has accurate info, a quick scan of the Manitoba Highway Traffic Act indicates that Clifford could be facing several charges where the penalty is up to one year in prison.

http://web2.gov.mb.ca/laws/statutes/ccsm/h060e.php

I'm speculating, but I think it is a good guess that he is charged with offences like failure to stop or driving while prohibited (as well as driving without license/insurance etc.).
 
That cop was being extremely nice

D'rok said:
An example of Clifford trying to apply his legal expertise to a traffic stop is here:

http://deanclifford.info/docs/OnTheSideOfTheRoad.txt

An amusing element of this little farce is when Clifford cites the Canadian Bill of Rights immediately after explaining that the Charter exempts him from all statutes. The Bill of Rights is an ordinary, non-constitutional statute, just like the various traffic acts that Clifford is trying to weasel out of. By Clifford's own theory, it can't apply to him.
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If that text is a true representation of the stop, that cop was bending over backwards to help this guy and he had no license, insurance, registration or even license plate.

Forget all FMOTL stuff, can someone answer what would happen if he caused an accident and injured someone and destroyed their property, how do they square that or justify it? The other person would be out and could have massive medical bills. I can bet if he was in an accident that was the other person's fault, he'd be screaming if they didn't have insurance. I have insurance and I dang well want everyone driving around me to have insurance, a license and registration.
It seems his 'rights' to drive without insurance affects me negatively and as those kooks like to say, I don't consent to that.

If the laws don't apply to him, then he can drive drunk as well. Do these guys ever think of the peripheral effects of their woo or are we to be dazzled with their 'unique' interpretation of the law and who it applies to?
 
Ordinarily I'd have guessed the US had a lock on wingnuts. I don't know if it's just you Cannucks posting more on JREF or are there actually so many more of these FROTL types in the Great White North than down here in the lower 48?
 
D'rok said:
[Clifford's] willingness to do more than dine and dash and ride public transit without paying means that he is also suffering more serious consequences. . . .Clifford could be facing several charges where the penalty is up to one year in prison.
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And if Cliffy's "I don't pay income taxes" brag is true he could be facing a mess of trouble with CRA.
 
ljohnson said:
If that text is a true representation of the stop, that cop was bending over backwards to help this guy and he had no license, insurance, registration or even license plate.
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Yep. The audio starts at around 17:30 of this youtube:

http://youtu.be/hdqJaXIx5Rg

Very patient, professional cop.

Forget all FMOTL stuff, can someone answer what would happen if he caused an accident and injured someone and destroyed their property, how do they square that or justify it? The other person would be out and could have massive medical bills.
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See post #18.
 
Robrob said:
Ordinarily I'd have guessed the US had a lock on wingnuts. I don't know if it's just you Cannucks posting more on JREF or are there actually so many more of these FROTL types in the Great White North than down here in the lower 48?
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After the sovereign citizen disaster in the 90's I think (in the USA) they know not to rear up their heads to high. The Canadian FMOLT haven't learned that.
 
D'rok said:
Yep. The audio starts at around 17:30 of this youtube:

http://youtu.be/hdqJaXIx5Rg

Very patient, professional cop.

See post #18.
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$50k judgement, his birth bond pays out his insurance claim? I don't get how these people get followers. If there's millions in their birth bond, cashing it in would be the best thing to happen to the FMOTL's credibility. I'm starting to think that maybe, possible, the FMOTLers are full of it.

These guys remind me of the folks in the US who say you don't have to pay income tax because the 16th amendment was never ratified. Didn't Wesley Snipes get involved with these folks and had to pay up and serve some time?
There isn't one case where it was tried and was successful yet people still sell the magic words that supposedly get you out of paying taxes and people buy them.

That guy in the youtube is a serious dick. He says it's funny when he's ridiculing, berating and belittling the cop yet he's in handcuffs and he gets arrested and he thinks he's winning? Is he Charlie Sheen? I've gotten out of a lot of tickets by being respectful of the cop, telling the truth and not being a dick. He says he lost his $30k truck that he paid cash for, maybe he should obey the laws like the rest of us and the fact that they can't recite a line of the traffic act sure didn't stop them from taking his truck. The Dunning Kruger effect rears its ugly head yet again.
 
Hans said:
After the sovereign citizen disaster in the 90's I think (in the USA) they know not to rear up their heads to high. The Canadian FMOLT haven't learned that.
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Sadly it may take a few people getting hurt (as it did down here) for things to change. Provoking nut-jobs is never a good idea.
 
ljohnson said:
[Clifford] says it's funny when he's ridiculing, berating and belittling the cop yet he's in handcuffs and he gets arrested and he thinks he's winning? . . . He says he lost his $30k truck that he paid cash for, maybe he should obey the laws like the rest of us and the fact that they can't recite a line of the traffic act sure didn't stop them from taking his truck. The Dunning Kruger effect rears its ugly head yet again.
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Dunning Kruger indeed, on a sort of reinforcement loop.

Clifford has convinced himself he can lecture every authority figure he meets from the cops, judges, lawyers, U.S. border guards to the power and light company that he knows what the law is and what's right and they don't.

Then at $150 a pop seminars he tells gullibles that their very same delusions of competency are real. In return they become admirers who tell him him he's as brilliant as he imagines himself to be.

Look at the video of his arrest http://www.youtube.com/user/DeanCClifford and see what happens to his delusional followers when the myth of uber-competency is challenged.

It's really sad. They rant, repeat what Dean's brainwashed them to say, pretend to have had their feet run over by police cars and otherwise act like children.
 
arayder said:
Dunning Kruger indeed, on a sort of reinforcement loop.


Look at the video of his arrest http://www.youtube.com/user/DeanCClifford and see what happens to his delusional followers when the myth of uber-competency is challenged.

It's really sad. They rant, repeat what Dean's brainwashed them to say, pretend to have had their feet run over by police cars and otherwise act like children.
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Wow! Do those followers of his really think they're helping with all that commotion? They don't need a warrant to arrest him. I had to laugh when the guy was saying they were on his foot. I've had my foot run over by a car tire more than once and it didn't even hurt. Such drama queens.

Again, the cops were extremely professional. Those folks have what can only be described as some sort of mental illness. Spouting all the FMOTL woo, getting the cops license plate and badge number. Kind of funny the cops driving a Toyota. I did notice that his truck at least had a license plate.

Even the title of the video, "2013-11-24 Dean Clifford Kidnapped after seminar by Cops without charge."
Kidnapped, how about arrested?
 
To break it down for you:

I got caught doing something bad.
I can't afford my drugs.
Therefore FOTL-Wafflle explains why I'm being persecuted.

Throw in a bit of being an unfit parent, hi Rob, and it's win win.
As described in the success stories thread.
Which doesn't have any success stories strangely
 
ljohnson said:
Those folks have what can only be described as some sort of mental illness.
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People will get weird when their sense of self is challenged by reality.

Think about it. It's psychologically easier for these seminar attendees to believe the powers that be are "kidnapping" their brilliant guru in a futile attempt to forestall their truth movement then it is to accept the reality that the woo pitching BS artist who conned them out of $150 is being arrested right in front of their eyes.

Likewise, it's easier for Cliffy to believe judges are the dumbest people on earth then it is for him to accept the crushing reality that he's a not so bright, not so successful, guru/conman who's so messed up he can't make a life for himself in one of the world's most prosperous western democracies.

In both cases it's easier to pretend to be a victim of oppression then it is to see yourself as the loser you are.
 
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Hero Dean update from Jail. I don't have time to listen to the whole thing at the moment, but I gather that Clifford's house was searched and weapons charges are involved. It's all based on false warrants and charges, of course.

http://youtu.be/IB85AjebnnY
 
Ok, I've had a really quick listen. Aside from the weapons charges, two things pop out on first listen.

Clifford brags about his arrest and detention back in February, saying that "all 11 charges were dropped and the case was struck off and closed". In fact, it was Clifford's case, not the Crown's that was struck off. Clifford filed a writ of habeas corpus on Feb 20, 2013. That matter was scheduled to be heard on Feb 28, but was stuck off the court list. If memory serves, Clifford had already been released at that point (probably on bail), so there would not be much point in attending a hearing.

Info is here, as usual:
http://www.jus.gov.mb.ca/Domain/FileSearch/SearchByOtherInfo.aspx

No public info is available about what happened with the charges. At a guess, I would say they were stayed rather than dropped, meaning they could come back to bite Clifford at any time.

Which leads too...

He also briefly mentions being charged and detained over an altercation with police in June, and says he "dealt with" the charges, and was released on Monday (probably on bail). Apparently, he didn't deal with the charges all that well, because those charges are now back.

Long story short, he's being charged with a ton of criminal offences, not just traffic offences.

Sounds to me like law enforcement and the Crown have been taking their time with Clifford and are now ready to go on all counts.
 
D'rok said:
Hero Dean update from Jail. I don't have time to listen to the whole thing at the moment, but I gather that Clifford's house was searched and weapons charges are involved. It's all based on false warrants and charges, of course.

http://youtu.be/IB85AjebnnY
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Summarizing the first two minutes:

He jokes about the guns they found in his house being really old, as if that somehow makes them not guns, and laughs that they came up with 17 new charges based on two shotguns and a rifle.

In Canada, for any guns at all, you need a Possession and Acquisition Licence:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Possession_and_Acquisition_Licence

A Possession and Acquisition Licence is a licence that allows individuals in Canada to possess and acquire firearms as well as ammunition. Licences are typically valid for five (5) years and must be renewed prior to expiry to maintain all classes. Once licensed, an individual can apply for a firearm transfer; and an Authorization To Transport (ATT) for restricted and prohibited firearms. If an individual possessing a PAL is convicted of certain offences, a PAL can be revoked. If an individual does not renew their PAL prior to its expiration date or if they have their PAL revoked, they must legally dispose of any firearms in their possession. A licence for prohibited firearms can be issued to qualifying businesses, and very rarely to individuals (firearms they own, as the gun laws changed over time.) Previous convictions for serious violent, drug or weapons offences almost invariably result in the denial of the application.
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If he doesn't have a PAL, that's three charges right there. Also note, that you need a PAL to buy ammunition, so depending on what types of shotguns he has, that is at least two and maybe three more charges. He mentions that these guns were in his closet, with no mention of a gun safe. So that's likely another three charges for improper storage of a firearm, and probably the same for the ammunition. That's between 10 and 12 charges right there. Add in some related to having these guns while out on bail, and what not, and 17 charges isn't all that unlikely.

He then laughs that the warrant they used to search his home specifically said they weren't allowed in the house. I have no idea how likely that is, but on the face of it, it sounds ridiculous. What would be the purpose of an arrest warrant that could be defeated by the person just staying indoors?
 
SMS Möwe over on Quatloos has made this excellent find.

http://www.quatloos.com/Q-Forum/viewtopic.php?p=165131#p165131

Apparently, some of Clifford's property was scheduled to be auctioned off to pay a tax debt. I wonder why he doesn't mention this during his detax seminars? I'm not sure I'd want to pay $150 to Clifford on top of losing my property.
 
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Having listened to that piece, Dean's in trouble. He's trying to laugh off the Firearms charges, but given Dean's track record on having a driver's license, I'm suspecting that he doesn't have the requisite PAL and is likely to lose his "familiy heirlooms". The law on having a PAL to have firearms is one taken seriously by most LEOs up here, and the laws on safe storage even more so.

Any warrant I've ever seen that allows you to search the premises won't make any mention of inside or outside - it will just say "the premises at " and list the address.

The part of this little taped phone call that truly galls me is his characterization of some of his new friends - in just because the girlfriend made a story up about abuse - way to keep it classy. It is telling though that he's also trying to characterize the rest of the inmates as being unjustly accused so as to feed the idea that the criminal justice system is hopelessly corrupt and that the system is afraid Dean'll expose it and bring it all down. the reality of course is that Dean is likely going to end up convicted, and allowed to remain a guest of Her Majesty for a period of time, but by planting the seed of the idea that it's all a set up of a corrupt system to go after him he can maintain some credibility with his flock.
 
I enjoyed the parts where Dean claimed he had been denied access to the courts and then complained that the judge dismissed one of the freeman-correct questions he asked at a hearing. . .the same hearing at which he said he was not allowed to speak.

This boy needs a minder to help him keep up with his stories.

Dean wannabes should ask themselves how it is their brilliant guru allowed himself to be outsmarted by the stupid cops, prosecutors and judges.

As unlawful as Dean and his followers may think the court's restrictions on his travel and the law's limits to firearm ownership may be they provide hints as to where one might run afoul of the authorities.

Every anti-government kook here in the states knows about burying firearms in sealed pvc pipes and checking the court records to see where the man has laid the tiger pits.

So maybe Dean ain't so smart?
 
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