Neurocluster Brain Model/Moses and Yogis

TimCallahan said:
Leaving aside for the moment that the ten commandments, along with the rest of the Torah, weren't written by Moses, but were rather from documents written after 800 BCE, you should remember that the number 40 has all sorts of mythic associations and is, in fact, formulaic:

In one version of Noah's flood it rained 40 days and nights.

Moses was on Mt. Sinai for 40 days and nights.

Elijah was in the wilderness 40 days and nights.

Jesus was tempted by Satan in the wilderness 40 days and nights

Mohammad was 40 years old when he received his first revelation on Mt. Hira
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Actually it was 42.
 
neuroclusterbrain said:
The food plays an important role in achieving the heights of the spirituality and for this reason special diets are recommended for religious adepts (such as eastern yogic teaching, etc) which disturb the equilibrium of biochemical reactions inside the brain which greatly helps to induce hallucinations, however the starvation is even more effective technique than special diets. It is important to note that short duration starvation will not carry the man into the “spiritual worlds” because the body will use the accumulated recourses to keep the equilibrium of brain’s biochemical reactions intact, and only long enough starvation will knock out the biochemical equilibrium when some of vital biochemical substances will be depleted.
Almost all spiritual gurus teach that in order to increase spirituality one needs to starve himself, and some spiritual gurus claim that 40 days of starvation without the food and water guarantees the entrance into the “spiritual worlds”. Long starvation disturbs the equilibrium of biochemical reactions inside the brain which result in the blockade of sensory input signals and invokes the dream simulator which carries a man into “spiritual worlds”.
Exactly the same working principle was used by American Indians. Indians had the ritual of initiation into the manhood which was mandatory for all Indian boys in order they become “true men”. The essence of the initiation ritual was the following. Indian boy must climb into the top of the mountain and he must sit there starving without food and without water day after day (which might take weeks) and he must wait until he will see the souls of the ancestors, and these souls of the ancestors must tell him his new manhood name. After the boy has met souls of the ancestors and after he has heard his new manhood name, he must climb down the mountain and tell his Indian tribe his new manhood name, and after that moment the boy becomes “true man”. However not all boys who climb on the top of the mountain meet the souls of the ancestors. Many boys starve themselves into the coma stage however the souls of the ancestors do not come to meet them. For that reason other Indians periodically climb to the mountain to check if the boy still has a consciousness or if he has fallen into the coma stage. If the boy is found in the coma stage, then he is brought back down from the mountain, revived, offered food and water and after some time the same procedure of climbing into the mountain is repeated again. The procedure is repeated the second time, the third time, etc – as many times as needed until the boy finally meets the souls of the ancestors and hears his new manhood name from these souls. Some boys who wanted to avoid this torturing ritual had cheated – after sitting several days on the top of mountain they climbed down and lied that they had met the souls of the ancestors and that these souls had told him his new manhood name. However this lie must had been kept a secret for the rest of the life, otherwise he would get death sentence for cheating in such an “important” ritual.
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And I contend that the bolded is the sign of a boy, becoming a man. Just like the ritual intends. It shows a mental capacity beyond childish imagination. I suspect the rest of the men knew this, having "experienced" the same, and the communal cover-up lends itself nicely for bonding with the elders of the tribe. All speculation, mind you, but achieves the same result.
 
Mohammed (real figure) got his illumination in 15 days.
Gotta wonder maybe there was some assistance with the use of local hallucinogens in these revelations.
 
Hokulele said:
40 days without water would guarantee something a little more permanent than hallucinations.
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As I pointed out recently in another thread, there is a telltale inconsistency in the Exodus 34 "40 days fast" account.
1 The Lord said to Moses, “Chisel out two stone tablets like the first ones, and I will write on them the words that were on the first tablets, which you broke ... 27 Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write down these words, for in accordance with these words I have made a covenant with you and with Israel.” 28 Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water.
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It is therefore absolutely impossible to take the passage literally.
 
tuxcat said:
First rule of skepticism - before attempting to explain a phenomena first of all verify it exists. All else is putting the cart before the horse.
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Millions of people have experienced various religious and occult phenomena however skeptical scientists deny even the existence of such phenomena. The denial of the phenomena is not the solution because the denial provides no explanation why so many people claim to have experienced various religious and occult phenomena. Instead of denial the scientific explanation of underlying mechanisms is needed.
Neurocluster Brain Model provides the scientific explanation of underlying mechanisms of religious and occult phenomena.
 
neuroclusterbrain said:
Millions of people have experienced various religious and occult phenomena however skeptical scientists deny even the existence of such phenomena. The denial of the phenomena is not the solution because the denial provides no explanation why so many people claim to have experienced various religious and occult phenomena. Instead of denial the scientific explanation of underlying mechanisms is needed.
Neurocluster Brain Model provides the scientific explanation of underlying mechanisms of religious and occult phenomena.
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It's for the same reason that people like horror movies.
 
Yogic siddhi powers are artificial controlled hallucinations inside their own brain

Eastern tradition has a concept of “kundalini”. Adepts of eastern tradition believe that the power of kundalini lies coiled at the base of the spine and special training and special techniques can free kundalini power – can lift kundalini power upwards in the spine towards the top of the head. Gurus of eastern tradition claim that kundalini is very powerful force and that incorrect handling of kundalini will cripple or even will kill a man. Spiritual gurus claim that correct handling of kundalini can turn human into semi-god, who for example can turn off the Sun using his power of will.

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Snipped for compliance with Rule 4. Please, do not copy and paste lengthy tracts of text from elsewhere. Instead, cite a short passage and provide a link to the source.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL
 
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neuroclusterbrain said:
Eastern tradition has a concept of “kundalini”. Adepts of eastern tradition believe that the power of kundalini lies coiled at the base of the spine and special training and special techniques can free kundalini power – can lift kundalini power upwards in the spine towards the top of the head. Gurus of eastern tradition claim that kundalini is very powerful force and that incorrect handling of kundalini will cripple or even will kill a man. Spiritual gurus claim that correct handling of kundalini can turn human into semi-god, who for example can turn off the Sun using his power of will.

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Nope.
 
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28 Moses was there with the Lord forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water.
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Fortunately, he had plenty of cake and wine.

IXP
 
TimCallahan said:
Which was 42? Noah's flood, Moses on the mountain, Elijah in the wilderness, Jesus tempted by Satan or Mohammad's age at his first revelation?
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All of them. I received this revelation after starving myself of Douglas Adams books for forty nights and forty days.
 
neuroclusterbrain said:
The food plays an important role in achieving the heights of the spirituality and for this reason special diets are recommended for religious adepts (such as eastern yogic teaching, etc) which disturb the equilibrium of biochemical reactions inside the brain which greatly helps to induce hallucinations, however the starvation is even more effective technique than special diets. It is important to note that short duration starvation will not carry the man into the “spiritual worlds” because the body will use the accumulated recourses to keep the equilibrium of brain’s biochemical reactions intact, and only long enough starvation will knock out the biochemical equilibrium when some of vital biochemical substances will be depleted.
Almost all spiritual gurus teach that in order to increase spirituality one needs to starve himself, and some spiritual gurus claim that 40 days of starvation without the food and water guarantees the entrance into the “spiritual worlds”. Long starvation disturbs the equilibrium of biochemical reactions inside the brain which result in the blockade of sensory input signals and invokes the dream simulator which carries a man into “spiritual worlds”.
Exactly the same working principle was used by American Indians. Indians had the ritual of initiation into the manhood which was mandatory for all Indian boys in order they become “true men”. The essence of the initiation ritual was the following. Indian boy must climb into the top of the mountain and he must sit there starving without food and without water day after day (which might take weeks) and he must wait until he will see the souls of the ancestors, and these souls of the ancestors must tell him his new manhood name. After the boy has met souls of the ancestors and after he has heard his new manhood name, he must climb down the mountain and tell his Indian tribe his new manhood name, and after that moment the boy becomes “true man”. However not all boys who climb on the top of the mountain meet the souls of the ancestors. Many boys starve themselves into the coma stage however the souls of the ancestors do not come to meet them. For that reason other Indians periodically climb to the mountain to check if the boy still has a consciousness or if he has fallen into the coma stage. If the boy is found in the coma stage, then he is brought back down from the mountain, revived, offered food and water and after some time the same procedure of climbing into the mountain is repeated again. The procedure is repeated the second time, the third time, etc – as many times as needed until the boy finally meets the souls of the ancestors and hears his new manhood name from these souls. Some boys who wanted to avoid this torturing ritual had cheated – after sitting several days on the top of mountain they climbed down and lied that they had met the souls of the ancestors and that these souls had told him his new manhood name. However this lie must had been kept a secret for the rest of the life, otherwise he would get death sentence for cheating in such an “important” ritual.
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Forty days without water will kill anybody, preposterous mystical claims notwithstanding.
 
catsmate1 said:
Will you be providing evidence for this claim? Or any of your others?
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Some of the evidences:
1) experiments with split-brain patients clearly show that the brain is made up of a constellation of independent or semi-independent agents, and these agents, these processes can carry on a vast number of activities outside of the main personality’s conscious awareness.
2) a disorder called „multiple personality disorder“ (in year 1994 American Psychiatric Association renamed „multiple personality disorder“ into improper name „dissociative identity disorder (DID)”).
3) characters which are seen in the dream. Let’s ask a simple question – do these characters (which are seen in the dream) have their own consciousness or not? who is the physical carrier of dream character’s consciousness?
4) etc.
 
RoboTimbo said:
Nope.
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Actually it sounds basically correct to me. People who practice mystical systems (including Scientology) often do report subjective experiences of paranormal events and/or intense insight, but as far as we can tell, those experiences do not result from, nor cause, any physical event or change in the material world.

Calling these occurrences "artificial controlled hallucinations" (we can leave off the "inside their own brain" part because where else would a hallucination occur?) might not be technically accurate in neuroscience terminology, but it gets the gist of it.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
neuroclusterbrain said:
Some of the evidences:
1) experiments with split-brain patients clearly show that the brain is made up of a constellation of independent or semi-independent agents, and these agents, these processes can carry on a vast number of activities outside of the main personality’s conscious awareness.
2) a disorder called „multiple personality disorder“ (in year 1994 American Psychiatric Association renamed „multiple personality disorder“ into improper name „dissociative identity disorder (DID)”).
3) characters which are seen in the dream. Let’s ask a simple question – do these characters (which are seen in the dream) have their own consciousness or not? who is the physical carrier of dream character’s consciousness?
4) etc.
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Links to peer reviewed studies please. You saying something does not make it true. What dream? Did you mean a dream? Do characters in your dreams carry money and credit cards? Where did they buy their clothes? Who tied their shoelaces? if you dream about switching on a light bulb, where does the electricity come from?
 
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Myriad said:
Actually it sounds basically correct to me. People who practice mystical systems (including Scientology) often do report subjective experiences of paranormal events and/or intense insight, but as far as we can tell, those experiences do not result from, nor cause, any physical event or change in the material world.

Calling these occurrences "artificial controlled hallucinations" (we can leave off the "inside their own brain" part because where else would a hallucination occur?) might not be technically accurate in neuroscience terminology, but it gets the gist of it.

Respectfully,
Myriad
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I was thinking more of his claim of there being an underlying mechanism to "siddhi powers – supernatural magical powers like telekinesis, teleportation, levitation, etc." and the assumption that they exist.

I agree otherwise. He seems to be saying that people can imagine things and other people claim that powers exist. He is correct in that, people do claim outlandish things.
 
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