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How effective is/was "Stop Sylvia Browne"?

RSLancastr said:
No, simply disagreeing with me is not "hostility".

Telling me that I "came bery close to playing the 'cripple card'" IS., in my opinion, as was your remark in another of my threads that the OP was "yet another sign of my slow, but seemingly inevitable descent into Christianity"...
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I did think twice about the former remark as it's possible I missed the intention of your comment but felt saying 'came close' allowed for that. I am happy to withdraw it if I had misread you.

The latter comment I see as pointed opinion rather than hostility (though it has quite clearly hit a nerve - which should give you pause for thought as if someone had made the same comment to me I'd have just seen it as funny for its blatant inaccuracy). I am quite blunt in my interactions though so perhaps that accounts for our differences in perception.

FWIW I still feel that having specifically asked for opinions on whether SSB affected SB or not, to describe Brattus' opinion that it didn't have much real effect on SB as hostile is a bit off. You seem very convinced that it did (and have some sound reasoned arguments and evidence on your side) so why ask for opinions if you just see any disagreement as hostility? It does make it look like you just wanted pats on the back and that isn't like you. Normally you'd be more likely to respond with 'Hmm, not convinced by that but I'll give it some thought' rather than descending straight into rubbishing with 'You pulled that out of your behind!'.

We're not likely to agree on this though and I accept it wasn't your intention - I'm just feeding back that that's how it comes across to at least one of us.

Again, for the avoidance of doubt, if any of the above seems hostile, it is not meant to. I enjoy robust and passionate debate and see more merit in trying to tease out when the truth may lie between or triggering a re-think or whatever than just posting to agree on something.

I don't get upset at being disagreed with or even if someone calls my views rubbish and takes the mickey out of them - I enjoy the challenge and believe it leads to better outcomes (I am often wrong), but I sometimes forget that others may perceive it as 'rudeness'.
 
I am so new here and don't really know the nuances and board etiquette yet. I was the one who said I didn't understand SOME of the hostility against RSL. I think RSL was trying to explain for MY benefit what he felt I might be interpreting as hostile. I am sorry if I was mistaken, I am just getting around here and not trying to cause any confusion. I just wanted to add my experience, which was very positive and cost Browne at least a few hundred bucks from me alone. :)
 
Ethan Thane Athen said:
I did think twice about the former remark as it's possible I missed the intention of your comment but felt saying 'came close' allowed for that. I am happy to withdraw it if I had misread you.
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The term "cripple" is an epithet which has some of the same "hot button" properties for a disabled person (such as myself) as the "n word" does for most black people. Perhaps you knew that and used it intentionally to bring to my attention how you felt I was coming across, but it just struck me as intentionally inflammatory/insulting (read "hostile"). had you quoted my remark which struck you as "very close to playing the 'cripple card' ", I might have better understood your intent. Instead, you expected me to either recall what I had said in my post or to scroll up and re-read what I had posted.

Instead, by using the word "cripple", you pretty much insured that I would react emotionally to your post, and not bother to find and re-read my earlier post.

I have since found and re-read my post (or perhaps you quoted it later, I've forgotten which), and I could see how my saying (something like) "I have other things on my plate right now (like learning how to walk again)" (in response to Brattus' suggestion that I move on to other subjects than Sylvia Browne) could indeed come across as "coming close to playing the 'cripple card' ".

Had you quoted that in your post in which you made the 'cripple card' remark, I would have better understood your remark, and have tried to explain what I meant by mine, which was "I'd LOVE to move on to create another Stop Site, but I have far more important things I am dealing with at present, primary among which is my physical recovery from the effects of my stroke."

The latter comment I see as pointed opinion rather than hostility (though it has quite clearly hit a nerve - which should give you pause for thought as if someone had made the same comment to me I'd have just seen it as funny for its blatant inaccuracy).
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And, prior to my stroke, I would have laughed it off as well.

You were, in effect, questioning my ability to think critically.

The stroke, which caused massive trauma to my brain, has indeed had an effect on my ability to think. There are mental things I once did quite easily which are now frustratingly beyond me.

So yes, your comment "struck a nerve" with me. Not that I think that I am "becoming a Christian" (more on that below), but that my ability to think critically, which I thought had been pretty well-established here, was suddenly in question. I found that frustrating, and it bothered me that I would have at one time addressed your comment and clearly explained my reasons for attending church and enjoying being part of that community. In fact, I thought that I had explained those things clearly, more than once. That you apparently did not understand those reasons was frustrating to me.

Will I become a Christian at some point? I highly doubt it, but I suppose it is not beyond the realm of possibility.

If I do, be assured it will be because I have examined the evidence and reached that conclusion. I would also discuss it here, explaining my reasoning, and considering any and all criticism of my reasons for coming to that conclusion.

But be also assured that no amount of snarky comments now will keep me from examining the evidence, nor will they shame me into not following that evidence to wherever it might take me.
 
Who are you going to believe, me or some crazy chick?
 
570Lesa said:
I am so new here and don't really know the nuances and board etiquette yet. I was the one who said I didn't understand SOME of the hostility against RSL. I think RSL was trying to explain for MY benefit what he felt I might be interpreting as hostile. I am sorry if I was mistaken, I am just getting around here and not trying to cause any confusion. I just wanted to add my experience, which was very positive and cost Browne at least a few hundred bucks from me alone. :)
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Lesa, no worries. I think that Ethan Thane Athen was objecting to MY characterizing one of his posts as hostile, NOT to anything which you had posted.

Thank you so much for sharing your story here.

-RSL
 
RSLancastr said:
The term "cripple" is an epithet which has some of the same "hot button" properties for a disabled person (such as myself) as the "n word" does for most black people. Perhaps you knew that and used it intentionally to bring to my attention how you felt I was coming across, but it just struck me as intentionally inflammatory/insulting (read "hostile"). had you quoted my remark which struck you as "very close to playing the 'cripple card' ", I might have better understood your intent. Instead, you expected me to either recall what I had said in my post or to scroll up and re-read what I had posted.

Instead, by using the word "cripple", you pretty much insured that I would react emotionally to your post, and not bother to find and re-read my earlier post.

I have since found and re-read my post (or perhaps you quoted it later, I've forgotten which), and I could see how my saying (something like) "I have other things on my plate right now (like learning how to walk again)" (in response to Brattus' suggestion that I move on to other subjects than Sylvia Browne) could indeed come across as "coming close to playing the 'cripple card' ".

Had you quoted that in your post in which you made the 'cripple card' remark, I would have better understood your remark, and have tried to explain what I meant by mine, which was "I'd LOVE to move on to create another Stop Site, but I have far more important things I am dealing with at present, primary among which is my physical recovery from the effects of my stroke."



And, prior to my stroke, I would have laughed it off as well.

You were, in effect, questioning my ability to think critically.

The stroke, which caused massive trauma to my brain, has indeed had an effect on my ability to think. There are mental things I once did quite easily which are now frustratingly beyond me.

So yes, your comment "struck a nerve" with me. Not that I think that I am "becoming a Christian" (more on that below), but that my ability to think critically, which I thought had been pretty well-established here, was suddenly in question. I found that frustrating, and it bothered me that I would have at one time addressed your comment and clearly explained my reasons for attending church and enjoying being part of that community. In fact, I thought that I had explained those things clearly, more than once. That you apparently did not understand those reasons was frustrating to me.

Will I become a Christian at some point? I highly doubt it, but I suppose it is not beyond the realm of possibility.

If I do, be assured it will be because I have examined the evidence and reached that conclusion. I would also discuss it here, explaining my reasoning, and considering any and all criticism of my reasons for coming to that conclusion.

But be also assured that no amount of snarky comments now will keep me from examining the evidence, nor will they shame me into not following that evidence to wherever it might take me.
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'playing the cripple card' is a commonly used and understood phrase (in my neck of the woods) which is the only reason I used that phraseology. I realise now that may not be the case in the States.

ETA On the other matter, if you actually examine the evidence (or rather lack of it) then I have no worries about you becoming a Christian. Though as an agnostic you have presumably already concluded that it is not something you can ever know...
 
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devnull said:
she knew who you were RSL. That's all that needs to be said.
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If you are referring to Sylvia Browne knowing who I was when Susan, Claus and I showed up at her Excalibur appearance back in 2008 - Yes, I think that was telling.

A correspondent who claimed to work in Browne's office later told me that Browne had shown pictures of me (taken by the PI who she had hired to "dig up dirt" on me) entering my home (how scandalous!) around the office, so yes, she knew what I looked like and, apparently, wanted her staff to know what I looked like as well.

When we approached the venue before the show to verify that was where she would be appearing, the man behind the counter gave me an odd look and then went inside the theatre, leaving someone else to speak with us. Susan remarked at the time that she thought he had recognized me.

Earlier that year, my (semi-nude) photo had appeared on the (back) cover of the Skepdude calendar, and another photo of me (taken at my TAM4 Paper presentation) had appeared in a Swift, and my speech at TAM5.5 was on the TAM5.5 DVD (which had a small photo of my face on its cover), so it's not like I was trying to hide my appearance or anything...
 
Ethan Thane Athen said:
'playing the cripple card' is a commonly used and understood phrase (in my neck of the woods) which is the only reason I used that phraseology. I realise now that may not be the case in the States.
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I had not seen nor heard the phrase before reading it in your post.

I was familiar with the phrase "playing the race card" (having first heard it during the first OJ Simpson murder trials back in the 1990s), and so, understood the meaning of the "cripple" version of it.

FWIW, I just Googled both phrases and found more than 3,800,000 pages with the "race card" version, but only around 2,700 pages with the "cripple card" version.

ETA On the other matter, if you actually examine the evidence (or rather lack of it) then I have no worries about you becoming a Christian. Though as an agnostic you have presumably already concluded that it is not something you can ever know...
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I am an agnostic. To me, this simply means that I currently do not know. I do not claim that it is something one can never know, nor even that it is something that I can never know. I don't know how anyone could claim to know that it is unknowable.

ETA: I believe it is impossible to know with certainty that there is NO God (as that is too broad a negative to ever prove conclusively), but I do not believe that it is impossible to know with certainty that there IS a God (although I have yet to see compelling evidence of God's existence).
 
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RSLancastr said:
I had not seen nor heard the phrase before reading it in your post.

I was familiar with the phrase "playing the race card" (having first heard it during the first OJ Simpson murder trials back in the 1990s), and so, understood the meaning of the "cripple" version of it.

FWIW, I just Googled both phrases and found more than 3,800,000 pages with the "race card" version, but only around 2,700 pages with the "cripple card" version.
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What can I say, Wales is a small country. All joking aside, 2,700 hits seems sufficient to show it as a phrase used by multiple people.

RSLancastr said:
I am an agnostic. To me, this simply means that I currently do not know. I do not claim that it is something one can never know, nor even that it is something that I can never know. I don't know how anyone could claim to know that it is unknowable.

ETA: I believe it is impossible to know with certainty that there is NO God (as that is too broad a negative to ever prove conclusively), but I do not believe that it is impossible to know with certainty that there IS a God (although I have yet to see compelling evidence of God's existence).
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My understanding is that 'It can't be known' or 'unknowable' is exactly the meaning of agnostic. Though many people (especially in Britain) used it as shorthand for 'Not really bothered'... or the more usual CofE ;).
 
Yes, there are differing definitions of the term "agnosticism":

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnosticism#Defining_agnosticism

According to philosopher William L. Rowe, in the popular sense an agnostic is someone who neither believes nor disbelieves in the existence of a deity or deities, whereas a theist and an atheist believe and disbelieve, respectively; but that in the strict sense agnosticism is the view that human reason is incapable of rationally justifying the belief that deities do, or do not, exist.
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(highlighting and bolding are mine)

So, according to Rowe anyway, I am an agnostic "in the popular sense", as I - as I said upthread - don't see how we can say that it is "unknowable".

ETA:

Ethan Thane Athen said:
What can I say, Wales is a small country. All joking aside, 2,700 hits seems sufficient to show it as a phrase used by multiple people.
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Certainly. Just as the 3,800,000 hits might show why I am familiar with the "race card" phrase, but not the "cripple card" one.

I think we have established both that you meant no offense by using the phrase, and why I took offense to your using it. Let's move on, shall we?
 
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