Continuation Part Six: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Bill Williams]

Well as far as we know he may have already filed these charges. Interesting that I recall this Halloween rite but delayed due to dinner to the next night story for years now. I doubt I recall it just from this one story in this one paper. Somewhere someone discusses Comodi statement to Mignini that if he wanted to stick with the Satanic Rite thing then she was removing herself from the case...as if that ups her moral authority. Apparently she is into sneaking fake control data documents in the court record since she was called out for it twice by Hellmann but she draws the line at the devil made me do it theory. Confirmed by Paccelli who in court openly called Knox a Luciferina and a witch...the latter without the required "does she float" test.
Sounds like a serious judicial system that never...well rarely... allows itself to be made a fool of. No wait...

Acc. to Barbie Nadeau, Comodi threatened to remove herself from the case if Mignini went to trial with the Satanic rite theory.

I wonder if Mignini plans to sue Nadeau!? Eh, Andrea?

 

[JREF2010]

Acc. to Barbie Nadeau, Comodi threatened to remove herself from the case if Mignini went to trial with the Satanic rite theory.

I wonder if Mignini plans to sue Nadeau!? Eh, Andrea?

He would sue them, but of course, you are aware of the budget cuts?
So only some people can be sued and some wont be sued, because of these "budget cuts". That's the only reason.

Now it could be Migninni's a liar with a twisted mind, or theres only enough in the budget to sue certain people.

 

[bri1]

Mach & Article 192

Art. 192 does not set any pre-requirement of a standard on pieces of circumstantial evidence in order to have them considered.
Moreover, the set of circumstantial evidence in this case exists and it is solid.
QUOTE]

Hmmm.
Here's what the Galati-Costagliola Appeal to the Supreme Court of Cassation says about Article 192:

"The evaluation of circumstantial proof, according to the latest pronouncement of the Full Court of Cassation, does not exhaust itself in a mere summary of the circumstantial evidence and cannot therefore disregard the precautionary assessment of each single piece of circumstantial evidence, each one in its own qualitative import and sufficiently precise and grave, to be then evaluated, in a global and unified perspective."
(My emphasis)

Mach, this seems to be very clearly saying that before any piece of circumstantial evidence is considered in relation to forensic evidence or in conjunction with any other piece of circumstantial evidence, it first needs to be evaluated on it's own terms, and assessed as to whether it is serious, precise, and consistent with known facts.

Can you name ANY piece of circumstantial evidence in this case that adheres to these standards, or are you sticking with 'these standards don't exist'?

Have you changed your mind about Article 192, Mach?

 

[acbytesla]

I wasn't comparing because I was responding to her stupid remark that the UW has 43000 students and only one murder suspect. I suppose she was saying that at this moment when she was writing it she thought there were no other murder suspects on campus. I thought it to mean that we had had only one murder suspect ever. I doubt Candace had any idea if there might be a second suspect for some other murder. But she's just a blogger so she write whatever.

The thing about Bundy was that he was just a nice guy, active in politics and a great student that no motive or pathology to kill young women but he did. I wasn't thinking that earlier but you made me think about it. I've always thought the motive, good kid and no pathology arguments were bogus and I think Bundy does supports that.

I think/know that the prosecution did not prove murder beyond a reasonable doubt but if they had made their case, motive, performance as a student and known history of violence wouldn't undo that case.

Actually Ted Bundy did have a pathology to kill young women. It's just that it wasn't known early on. I feel a strange connection to Bundy. I happened to have lived in the same building..actually across the hall from where Bundy lived while he was attending the UW. I also took a class taught by Bob Keppler, one of the lead investigators on the Bundy case and later worked closely with John Douglass on the Green River Killer case. A lot of the beginning of profiling killers started with Ted Bundy. That Ted Bundy was handsome and known to be charming at times and to have worked in politics does not mean that he didn't have severe psychological pathologies at work.

 

[davefoc]

Mignini satanic ritual motive theory

Machiavelli claims that Mignini did not propose the satanic ritual theory.

The Wikipedia article includes the claim that a satanic ritual motive theory (along with several other motive theories) was proposed . However at least the on-line part of the reference for the claim doesn't provide evidence to support it.

Bill Williams posted:
Acc[ording] to Barbie Nadeau, Comodi threatened to remove herself from the case if Mignini went to trial with the Satanic rite theory.

I couldn't find the claim by Nadeau on-line although I easily could have just missed it. Is this the best or only evidence that Mignini made the satanic ritual claim?

 

[acbytesla]

.
Keep in mind that we do not know how many days Meredith had been wearing that particular bra. Also, there were two bathrooms, one shared by Filomena and Laura, the other shared by Amanda and Meredith, and consequently used by Raffaele, where he would touch common items such as towels, toilet flushers, water faucet taps, light switch, door knobs, toilet seat (up/down/up/down). And of course people often remove and put on clothes in a bathroom.

Despite that, I think one would be hard pressed to find two more suspiciously collected, handled, and interpreted pieces of evidence than the knife and bra clasp.
.

I don't think there is any reasonable way to realistically hypothesize how DNA happened to be on the bra clasp. While the ideas above are certainly possible, it is just guessing. This in fact is what is so disappointing in the ISC ruling. Really I should say what is blatantly stupid of the ISC decision.
1. DNA is invisible to the naked eye
2. DNA is transferred via touch and through the air and unless you can track every possible means of transfer, (which you can't) guessing is just that "guessing" and one guess is as good or bad as another.

It's very clear that contamination is a reasonable source of that DNA given the 46 day delay, the unsecured nature of the crime scene and the collection methods.

 

[acbytesla]

Candace Dempsey and John Douglas are on the pro guilt people's list of evil ones simply because they spoke out against the prosecution's case. At that point, the normal rule of web discussions takes over. Attacking a person is easier than a logical argument regarding the evidence.

Many people believe they can tell Amanda is guilty based on behavioral clues. But at the same time they dismiss the opinion of John Douglas, who is an expert in the field of criminal behavior.

Amazing contradiction isn't it? Douglass may very well be the world's most renowned profiler and expert in criminal behavior and all these couch quarterbacks think they are better than him at examining behavioral clues?

 

[Kaosium]

Machiavelli claims that Mignini did not propose the satanic ritual theory.

The Wikipedia article includes the claim that a satanic ritual motive theory (along with several other motive theories) was proposed . However at least the on-line part of the reference for the claim doesn't provide evidence to support it.

Bill Williams posted:
Acc[ording] to Barbie Nadeau, Comodi threatened to remove herself from the case if Mignini went to trial with the Satanic rite theory.

I couldn't find the claim by Nadeau on-line although I easily could have just missed it. Is this the best or only evidence that Mignini made the satanic ritual claim?

The difference here is between a 'Halloween Sect-like¹ Ritualistic Murder'² and a 'Satanic Murder.'³ Machiavelli will tell you the former, there's other sources which list the latter but my guess is they just jumped to that conclusion (what's the difference really?) being as Mignini had proposed a satanic cult was responsible for the Monster of Florence murders and the death of Dr. Narducci. He's still fighting that one, there was an update in the Andrea Vogt article posted recently. I am willing to accept the possibility that those reports erred and Mignini didn't propose a satanic murder, but instead this time chose to theorize it was a ritualistic sect-like Halloween murder. I tend to find it is a distinction without a difference but it's very important to some people apparently.

Incidentally, early in the case there was a report in the media that a man had received a text message that said something to the effect that 'this Wednesday Meredith dies.' (there's other translations than the Mail one I just found that one first) That Wednesday was Halloween, the night before Meredith was killed. It turned out that was just a coincidence, it was a promo for the show 'Grey's Anatomy' which had a character named Meredith whose life was supposedly in peril.

At one point early in the case Mignini had theorized that the murder was intended to occur on Halloween and Amanda and Meredith exchanging texts that night while they played bar-tag partying (signing off with kisses) was supposed to be Amanda trying to lure Meredith to the sect-like ritualistic whatever on Halloween.

¹

State prosecutor Giuliano Mignini told the trial Meredith had her throat cut in a "sect-like ritual" the day after a Halloween party where she had been pictured dressed in a vampire-like costume.

Rudy Guede, 21, American Amanda Knox, 21, and Raffaele Sollecito, 24, are accused of her murder.

Ivory Coast-born drifter Guede's DNA was found on Meredith's body, but he denies involvement in her killing.

Mignini told the court: "There was a sect-like aspect with cultural connections to Halloween and All Saints Day playing a part. The killing actually happened the next day. Japanese comics found in Raffaele Sollecito's possession had pictures of murdered female vampires which were eerily similar to the scene of the crime."

²

There are many more factors, almost 20 in all, among them the suspicion that there may have been something ritualistic about Meredith’s death. The prosecutor was criticised for mentioning this, but she was killed on the eve of the Day of the Dead, November 2. Sollecito was said to have Japanese manga comics that described the rape and killing of female vampires. Meredith had been dressed as a vampire to celebrate Hallowe’en.

³

Arturo de Felice, the local police chief, revealed that Miss Kercher had been killed by three people who had been high on drugs and tried to force her to take part in what was later described as a "satanic" group sex session, then held her down and stabbed her in the throat when she refused.

 

[acbytesla]

That is something that worries me a lot, and it's something we see a lot of on this forum. Poster after poster, trumpeting loudly that a court has convicted someone and therefore that person is factually guilty, no doubt about it. Earlier stages of this mega-thread have such "arguments" in abundance. And this is supposed to be a forum for sceptics?

What happened to Knox and Sollecito is the stuff of nightmares. Their lives may be permanently ruined over this. I think sometimes people simply want to blot out the possibility that this could happen to them, could happen to any ordinary person who just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time. So they insist that only the factually guilty are ever convicted.

Well, that's not true. Neither is it true that innocent people will always be freed on appeal, in the end. Indeed, innocent people have spent longer in jail than a guilty person would have served for the same offence, because they refuse to "show remorse" for something they haven't done.

There is something deeply wrong with the thinking in many so-called justice systems, not just Italy. Defending an earlier decision, saving face and "getting a conviction" become more important than truth. And that will go on so long as ordinary people continue to assume that a court verdict cannot be wrong, as a matter of principle.

Rolfe.

Excellent analysis Rolfe. The public and judicial institutions are conditioned to assume that those "accused" are most likely guilty despite the idea that one is "innocent" until proven guilty. Amanda and Raffale are actually "lucky" if you could use that word compared to the countless people without the resources to mount a proper defense.

The number of "innocent" people who actually end up pleading guilty to crimes may actually be staggering. The system is actually as much about "efficiency" than anything else. Anyone who actually stands up to this system is quickly made to understand this is not a good idea. That is because, people who plead guilty are often given substantially shorter sentences than those who fight the charges. And if you don't have money for bail and competent representation the wheels of justice are certainly going to turn you into fodder for those wheels of justice.

My best friend is a Seattle Police Officer and spends quite a bit of time in courtrooms and he talks about clearly guilty people virtually all getting off in DUI prosecutions because they have their own attorneys and how those that have only the Public Defender almost always being convicted. He says this often the case in more serious crimes as well.

As an accused pair, A&R are lucky as they have means. They are lucky as their case is high profile. As a high profile case, you would like to think their case will be scrutinized more closely than other cases.

On the other hand, they are unlucky that their case is high profile, this in itself has a tendency to make the system more intransigent and even vengeful. They look to make example of those who fight the system as a warning to others who might consider fighting. Hence the sentences handed down for both A&R as well as Mignini's pursuit to actually increase the lengths of their sentences.

 

[Katody Matrass]

recently the Prosecutor Giuliano Mignini told to the press that he never supposed the Meredith Kercher’s murder to be connected with Satanic Rituals … Probably he forgot what he stated during HIS case summary at the end of the first trial in front of the Judge Giancarlo Massei:
Prosecutor Giuliano Mignini Summary at the end of the trial

page 46 starting from line 12:

“It should be emphasized that, in any case, for those pathologically addicted to the commission of sex and violence, it is not far-fetched to connect the project to the tradition of Halloween, because if it is true that the night between October 31 and November 1 was passed (and Meredith had spent with her ​​friends and fellows), it is equally true that, at 9 pm circa of the first of November and for the next three hours, it was still the day of All Saints’ Day and what you do not was able to achieve on the eve night of Holiday of the Saints, could be realized in the night to pass from the last one to the “Holiday of the deads”.

and pag 49 starting from line 17:

“Moreover, the three, and especially Sollecito, were all addicted to the suggestions of erotic – mudering “culture”, which has previosly been discussed and that night it was still the day of the Holiday of Saints, “inheritor” of the Catholic Samhain Celtic New Year, with all the implications that have their central point in the Holiday eve, that is the night between October 31 and November 1.”

http://www.raffaelesollecito.org/?page_id=133

 

[Kaosium]

Just found this video Ann Coulter saying Knox is guilty

Sorry to make you guys think about something so old, but as I watched it, even with my limited knowledge, it seemed to me everything Coulter listed off has since been debunked or highly called into question, right? Shown to be faulty testing or likely contaminated evidence etc? The knife she mentions... is that even considered the murder weapon anymore? And then of course the thing about Patrick seemed to just be her expressing incredulity that someone could be brought to the point Amanda was by the situation she was in, the police pressure (which I happen to know, from other cases, is not just possible, but common)

It's funny, I hated Ann Coulter's guts completely a couple of years ago, I've just recently found that I think she has some insightful things to say on certain topics, and now I'm confronted with having to really strongly disagree with her again, haha. She's also a lot easier to READ than watch, what a harpy. Anyway... has she since added any nuance to her views on this? It's pretty clear she was just instinctively trusting cops and staking out her territory opposite of liberal media.

I'm no fan of liberal media (anymore) and I typically side with cops in situations a lot of other people don't, but there is no question at all that everybody gets things right sometimes! And there are corrupt cops, and well meaning cops who can't realize what they're doing as they twist evidence... and everything in between.

Speaking of videos, I absorb information that way a lot, and would really appreciate any links to particularly important/good videos about this case if anyone can suggest some. Doesn't even have to be a link, could just be a name. Anything from interviews, documentaries, whatever...

It looks to me like she read one of The Machine/Harry Rag's list of lies and took it as Truth.^TM PMF would send out 'press kits' to media with crap like this in it. She seems to have extrapolated beyond that as well, I don't think even Harry ever tried to pretend Raffaele's bloody fingerprint was on the bra. Note she was speaking extemporaneously and probably just messed that up. Even Kermit made fun of her for it! (this video is infamous.)

There was no 'bleach clean up,' it's evident Ann Coulter never viewed the crime scene videos, the lack of fingerprints is because they didn't find anything in the murder room or anywhere incriminating and what good are prints from non-incriminating areas in her own home? So the fingerprint guys didn't take many there and what's the point of identifying partials in her own room and common areas? You can see what it looked like in one of the links I posted to Machiavelli recently, there was no thorough cleaning that removed all traces, there wasn't anything cleaned at all outside the little Rudy Guede did. There was no footprint of Amanda's in Filomena's, it was her DNA in a (blood-negative) "amorphous" (not footprint) luminol hit there's no reason to think was the result of the crime, she lived there. The window was broken from the outside and the inside-broken theory with the glass bouncing off the shutters to 'simulate' why it looked like it came from the outside was ridiculous. There was no mixed blood, not even Massei could swallow that, it was the result of swabbing up Meredith's blood that Rudy left in Amanda's sink and smearing it far and wide to get her DNA and then pretending it was the blood of both because the final sample had DNA from both. Raffaele didn't leave that footprint, it looks more like Rudy Guede's and it was in the bathroom where Rudy washed up and got the towels. Do the 'blind test' and see what one you'd pick and how sure you are of it.

Amanda wrote them the same day of the arrest telling them she didn't really think those 'recovered memories' ever happened and she couldn't be used as 'testimone' and they needed to look for the REAL murder (sic). The next day she was definite about it, as she was the day following. Papers at least by the 11th have the cops saying she 'changed her story again' and calling her a 'compulsive liar' so they knew, but it was a PMF 'talking point' that Amanda never recanted even though she did. The cops had in excess of 20 people within days of the arrest lining up to alibi Patrick but they refused to release him and grilled that Swiss professor for seven hours and wouldn't initially accept his alibi. Read through some of those articles and see just who the 'compulsive liars' are in this case, there's some press errors in this case but mostly they're reporting police lies. That 'clear cut' video they pretended to have is actually (very probably) Meredith returning home, and as you can see they lied outright when they called it 'clear cut.' (note that the timestamp is off--funny story there as the cops reversed the polarity of the difference!) There's another article from months later where they say they're holding it over her, probably to get her to confess, which was probably one motive for their 'sexing up' or outright lying about the evidence they had to the press. She didn't because she wasn't guilty and knew they couldn't have any real 'hard evidence' she was at the crime scene and they had to be lying about that video being 'clear cut' or of her.

That was (moreso) the "European" press that Ann Coulter said she was relying on, they were less skeptical of the police and prosecution than the American press at first. She was also cribbing from Harry Rag/The Machine I'd be willing to bet!

 

[Skeptic Tank]

Thank you again for your patience and effort at helping me understand this all better, Kaosium!

I've really been getting more into it, though I don't expect I'll ever get as into it as Zimmerman or Casey Anthony. Those I got into as they unfolded. Speaking of unfolding, what's the most up to date status? I hear there's some proceedings still going on, trying to make her return to Italy?

I was thinking about it and I feel like one of the worst things the prosecution did was what they did to the Kercher family. Firstly they denied them the feeling of satisfaction which should have rightfully come from Geude being apprehended, they handed Geude a BS way to divert responsibility to others on a silver platter which he should have never had, and they sort of turned the Kerchers into minor villains by creating a situation where they were almost guaranteed to end up desiring two innocent people be convicted and imprisoned, and doomed them to be dissatisfied when they went free!

That's twisted, and the more I've been reading up and listening to Knox's book, the more clear it is to me that there were a lot of deliberate lies to get us to where we are now.

Completely disgusting.

ETA: Btw, regarding the foot test, I leaned toward the one on the right but I waffled back and forth and it was hard to say.

 

[Sergei Walankov]

Something (God knows what) made Ann Coulter decide this was a "conservatives versus liberals" issue, and that was all she needed. She then went off half-cocked with a string of misunderstandings and blatant falsehoods, just like she always does.

 

[RoseMontague]

At one point early in the case Mignini had theorized that the murder was intended to occur on Halloween and Amanda and Meredith exchanging texts that night while they played bar-tag partying (signing off with kisses) was supposed to be Amanda trying to lure Meredith to the sect-like ritualistic whatever on Halloween.

It is even mentioned in Micheli....

KNOX che, pur escludendo qualunque significato della deduzione in punto di peculiare preparazione del delitto o addirittura di ipotetiche aggravanti (un po’ lumeggiate dal P.M., pur non contestandole, nella a dir poco fantasiosa ricostruzione descrittiva di riti, festini di Halloween, pubblicazioni manga ed occasioni da non lasciarsi sfuggire, magari dopo una pantomima di prova generale davanti al malcapitato KOKOMANI), era pur sempre l’unica persona in grado di sapere che quella sera MEREDITH sarebbe stata sola in casa.

 

[RoseMontague]

And my favorite article on this (mentions the Order of the Red Rose)

http://web.archive.org/web/20110810...-theory-that-put-knox-in-the-dock-981759.html

 

[Kaosium]

Thank you again for your patience and effort at helping me understand this all better, Kaosium!

I've really been getting more into it, though I don't expect I'll ever get as into it as Zimmerman or Casey Anthony. Those I got into as they unfolded. Speaking of unfolding, what's the most up to date status? I hear there's some proceedings still going on, trying to make her return to Italy?

I don't really know to be honest with you, I'm almost afraid to look too closely into current court proceedings as the Corte Suprema di Cassazione quashing destroyed any lingering faith I had in Italian justice. They bought into a pack of lies on evidence that they never evaluated, with quotes taken out of context from documents they never read and they fully backed Mignini in both this case and the absurd 'Monster of Florence' debacle. They have to 'rule' on some 30k cases a year and are supposed to limit themselves to points of law for the obvious reasons above but they chose to quash Mignini's own conviction on corruption charges and put Amanda, Raffaele, their families and all those poor people supposedly part of, or covering up for, a satanic cult 'responsible' for this long dead suicide (that had nothing to do with the even longer inactive serial killer in Florence) through more hell and expense.

I was thinking about it and I feel like one of the worst things the prosecution did was what they did to the Kercher family. Firstly they denied them the feeling of satisfaction which should have rightfully come from Geude being apprehended, they handed Geude a BS way to divert responsibility to others on a silver platter which he should have never had, and they sort of turned the Kerchers into minor villains by creating a situation where they were almost guaranteed to end up desiring two innocent people be convicted and imprisoned, and doomed them to be dissatisfied when they went free!

I agree, what they also did was empty their pockets as Maresca doesn't work for free, they don't have contingency in Italy. Apparently John Kercher asked Mignini for a good lawyer and he recommended his buddy Maresca. As you can see from the Sunday (London) Times article I linked in the post to Davefoc above (that I had to use TJMK for as the Times has a paywall now) that as of the appeal John Kercher still bought into the 'ritualistic' nonsense Mignini just made up mostly from the fact Raffaele had a collector's edition Manga comic in his apartment he'd gotten as a gift and was still wrapped in plastic. Incidentally the female vampire in that (which is apparently a classic but I'm not familiar with the genre) actually kicks ass most of the time, it's available online and years back I read through it and linked it here. That's the (main) 'evidence' for the ritualistic killing/sex game gone wrong which survived in this fashion when Massei tries to determine their 'motivations:'

Therefore it may be deduced that, accustomed to the consumption of drugs and the effects of the latter, Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito participated actively in Rudy’s criminal acts aimed at overcoming Meredith’s resistance, subjugating her will and thus allowing Rudy to act out his lustful impulses; and this is considered to have happened because, for those [i.e. for people] who did not disdain the use of drugs (Amanda has stated that on that evening, before ‚making love‛, they had consumed drugs), watching films and reading comic books in which sexuality is accompanied by violence and by situations of fear, disregarding the concept of sexuality as an encounter of [two] persons moved by reciprocal and free emotion (see the comic books seized from Raffaele Sollecito and the statements on the viewing of films which had drawn the attention of the tutors of the ONAOSI College attended by Raffaele Sollecito), the prospect of helping Rudy in [his] goal of subduing Meredith in order to sexually abuse her may have seemed to be an exciting stimulant which, although unexpected, had to be tried.

There's no evidence, nor any reason to believe, they were reading the comic Raffaele had wrapped up in plastic, they were watching drippy lovey-dovey movies instead for which there is evidence. Mignini just made that up and Massei modified it slightly to make it a spontaneous thing instead of a planned ritualistic event. That's the kind of 'truth' the Kerchers got from the lawyer they hired that sold them out body and soul to help his buddy Mignini get a conviction for the bizarre theory he just made up even after they caught the guy who really did it.

That's twisted, and the more I've been reading up and listening to Knox's book, the more clear it is to me that there were a lot of deliberate lies to get us to where we are now.

Completely disgusting.

Yes, it is. Everyone loses here except Maresca and Mignini who's now probably pretty chuffed the Corte Suprema di Cassazione has completely backed him in both his idiot conspiracy theories and quashed his own conviction for corruption.

ETA: Btw, regarding the foot test, I leaned toward the one on the right but I waffled back and forth and it was hard to say.

The surface is uneven and the print a partial one, no actual 'match' could be made for either one in my opinion, but there is someone we know got Meredith's blood on him he must have washed off before he went dancing, and it looks more like his to me.

 

[Kaosium]

It is even mentioned in Micheli....

Thanks for digging that up!
You have learned to speak Italian, haven't you Rose?

I have not, and what's time in the Knox thread without the heady thrill of google-translated Italian?

Here's what it spit out:

KNOX shows that even if the meaning of any particular point deduction in the preparation of the crime or even hypothetical aggravating (a little 'lighted up by the PM, while not asserting, in the descriptive to say the least imaginative reconstruction of rituals, feasts of Halloween, publications and manga opportunities not to be missed, perhaps after a pantomime rehearsal in front of the victim Kokomani), it was still the only person able to know that tonight MEREDITH was alone in the house.

There it is, the manga publications, rituals, 'feasts of Halloween' and using Kokomani's bizarre story to suggest a dress rehearsal.

 

[Grinder]

Actually Ted Bundy did have a pathology to kill young women. It's just that it wasn't known early on. I feel a strange connection to Bundy. I happened to have lived in the same building..actually across the hall from where Bundy lived while he was attending the UW. I also took a class taught by Bob Keppler, one of the lead investigators on the Bundy case and later worked closely with John Douglass on the Green River Killer case. A lot of the beginning of profiling killers started with Ted Bundy. That Ted Bundy was handsome and known to be charming at times and to have worked in politics does not mean that he didn't have severe psychological pathologies at work.

Yes we know. Covered by Mary eons ago. But three days into the Bundy case we weren't aware of his background and that was the time in the Knox case. The PGP would say they have evidence of background behavior issues including the "rape prank" which I don't believe happened.

Anyway, I wasn't really comparing the two only what we knew in the first few days of the case for both.

 

[Grinder]

Machiavelli claims that Mignini did not propose the satanic ritual theory.

The Wikipedia article includes the claim that a satanic ritual motive theory (along with several other motive theories) was proposed . However at least the on-line part of the reference for the claim doesn't provide evidence to support it.

Bill Williams posted:
Acc[ording] to Barbie Nadeau, Comodi threatened to remove herself from the case if Mignini went to trial with the Satanic rite theory.

Nothing from any of these true crime novel writers can be trusted without independent corroboration particularly Barbie.

 

[Kestrel]

The surface is uneven and the print a partial one, no actual 'match' could be made for either one in my opinion, but there is someone we know got Meredith's blood on him he must have washed off before he went dancing, and it looks more like his to me.

As I recall, Rudy stated that he cleaned himself up in the small bathroom.