FBI dropped the ball wrt Mossaoui

[ozeco41]

Just don't say nucular.

That one is probably far more prevalent than we realise.

Not copying Bush - rather simple laziness..

..like "Feb yew arry"

...and I would of thought that you should of recognised the other common one - it must of occurred to you.

 

[ozeco41]

BTW - subject to cjnewson88 correcting me if I'm wrong but IIRC the NZ emergency number is 111.

The historic reason could well be back in the days of rotary dials the NZ dials had the numerals in reverse order to the rest of us. The NZ'ers phone dials started bottom left with 1 then 2-3-4 round clockwise 0 nearest the dial stop. So "we" in AU had 000 - zero being the longest travel for the dial. UK had 999 - almost the longest. And for NZers the 1 had furthest to travel. (cj may be too young to remember.)

Reason was probably that Kiwis would not remember the sequence of numbers if they were in reverse order.




OR Cue for cjn to reference a standard AU v NZ joke.

 

[triforcharity]

The pervasive influence of TV.

We have folks in AU who dial 911 in emergencies.

What's the probl...em....with.....Oh. Nevermind....LOL!

 

[Jetblast]

[ In a 2010 radio interview, Rowley described how in mid-August of 2001, her office was contacted by some flight instructors, concerned because Moussaoui had paid for flight lessons with large amounts of cash. Already deemed a potential terrorist threat, Moussauoi remained in custody due to a lapsed visa as Rowley´s team, collaborating with the French Intelligence Service, confirmed within days his connections to radical fundamentalist Islamic groups and to Osama bin Laden. Even with this knowledge, the FBI denied Rowley a warrant to search Moussaoui’s computer for information until the day of the attacks.

Rowley believed that a lack of cooperation between intelligence agencies tied her team’s hands when they tried to obtain a probable cause warrant for Moussaoui´s computer less than a month before the 9/11 attacks.

...

Snipped for compliance with Rule 4. When you copy and paste from another site, Rule 4 of the Membership Agreement applies. That is, cite a short passage and post a link to the source. In this case: http://www.americanswhotellthetruth.org/portraits/coleen-rowley

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL

After Bojinka and the 1993 WTC bombing this identification should have automatically triggered terror red-flags. When French intel identified Moussaoui as having connection to the same group that tried to destroy the Eifel Tower with an Air France Airbus this situation automatically qualified for CIA interest and action.

The cat was out of the bag and Rowley's concern constituted known interest beyond the excuses being made above. This is certainly what you would see with an intentional government plot.



BBC:

But according to the Washington Post, Minneapolis investigators believed there was significant evidence of Mr Moussaoui's links to terrorists.

When the request for a warrant was denied, the office tried to bypass FBI headquarters and notify the CIA's counter-terrorist operation directly. Minnesota agents were reprimanded, according to Ms Rowley's letter.

 

[beachnut]

... After Bojinka and the 1993 WTC bombing this identification should have automatically triggered terror red-flags. ...

Bojinka, did you explain this was bombing aircraft not taking them and flying them?

How does the FBI dropping the ball make 911 an inside job? And how does it support your fantasy inside job plot?

I thought it was funny when you compared learning to fly with Bojinka, learning to bomb. I bet your inside job plot, story, fantasy if filled with things like this.

 

[abaddon]

I get asked that on a regular basis, "Did you have the car fingerprinted?" As if a hundred random prints (half of which are other cops) will do anything other than clog the ID system.

Funny enough, I had this happen.

Although I have experienced a number of car break-ins over the years, on one occasion the equivalent to CSI arrived and dusted for prints. Turns out that a particular recidivist with a particular MO had been released and they wanted to nail him again as they knew full well it was him swinging back into action. I believe they got him again.

My uncle was a cop and he used to laugh at a particular perp whose infallible secret method of remaining undetected was to file off his prints before engaging in theft. He never figured out that he always got nailed because he was the only one that did that, and they were always careful never to reveal that was how the caught him.

 

[Robrob]

Bojinka, did you explain this was bombing aircraft not taking them and flying them?

That would involve actually knowing what he was talking about rather than simply regurgitating others claims.

 

[Axxman300]

'm satisfied that I've shown enough evidence that FBI preferred the weakest charges to keep from triggering automatic responses that would have exposed a CIA false flag operation.

See, this key point of your argument has the least backing of the evidence from the mid-1990s.

The CIA was under investigation by the FBI Aldrich Ames and other security breeches. This underscored the hostility each agency had for the other, and is also why the FBI would have been in no mood to go along with your alleged CIA treason.

In his book, "See No Evil", CIA agent Robert Baer detailed the CIA's circling of their operational wagons and becoming risk averse due to FBI pressure. Middle and upper management were more interested protecting their careers than the country.

I only have to point to recent history with Benghazi and the Boston Marathon Bombings to illustrate how, even with the alleged out of internal spying and bloated international espionage operations gathering so much information, it all comes down to basic human judgement at key positions that make the difference.

 

[jaydeehess]

Delete

 

[jaydeehess]

See, this key point of your argument has the least backing of the evidence from the mid-1990s.

The CIA was under investigation by the FBI Aldrich Ames and other security breeches. This underscored the hostility each agency had for the other, and is also why the FBI would have been in no mood to go along with your alleged CIA treason.

In his book, "See No Evil", CIA agent Robert Baer detailed the CIA's circling of their operational wagons and becoming risk averse due to FBI pressure. Middle and upper management were more interested protecting their careers than the country.

I only have to point to recent history with Benghazi and the Boston Marathon Bombings to illustrate how, even with the alleged out of internal spying and bloated international espionage operations gathering so much information, it all comes down to basic human judgement at key positions that make the difference.

Aahh, back on topic.

You see Jet blast, all the talk above about TV versus reality, that is off topic. If it continued enough to bug me I would report it or someone else would and a warning put out by a mod. Ignore the warning and those posters who do get personal warnings.

The friction between FBI and CIA was fairly well known and it boggles my mind that persons such as JB would expect not only idealistic cooperation between them, but in this case actual collusion in a treasonous act.

 

[jaydeehess]

Rowley believed that a lack of cooperation between intelligence agencies tied her team’s hands when they tried to obtain a probable cause warrant for Moussaoui´s computer less than a month before the 9/11 attacks.

...




BBC:

Hmmm, seems to be part of what I have already stated.

So, getting no where on probable cause and the brass say give it up you ate wasting your time and FBI resources.

 

[Jetblast]

See, this key point of your argument has the least backing of the evidence from the mid-1990s.

The CIA was under investigation by the FBI Aldrich Ames and other security breeches. This underscored the hostility each agency had for the other, and is also why the FBI would have been in no mood to go along with your alleged CIA treason.

In his book, "See No Evil", CIA agent Robert Baer detailed the CIA's circling of their operational wagons and becoming risk averse due to FBI pressure. Middle and upper management were more interested protecting their careers than the country.

I only have to point to recent history with Benghazi and the Boston Marathon Bombings to illustrate how, even with the alleged out of internal spying and bloated international espionage operations gathering so much information, it all comes down to basic human judgement at key positions that make the difference.

So you trust the word of a CIA agent even though the company for which he works openly admits it is based on deception? That's what they want you to believe, however you are basing your logic on the assumption that CIA is an open and honest organization that would never participate in a false flag operation. If you simply look at their attempt to get approval for Operation Northwoods you would see this is perfectly reasonable and part of their established record. The true measure of CIA cooperation with FBI is their participation in the deceptive government version of TWA 800's shootdown. You have to ask yourself if internecine rivalry and excuse-making really stand as credible reason for CIA ignoring Rowley knocking on their door with a live suicide pilot?

What is it about Moussaoui being confirmed by French Intel as being associated with known airplanes-as-bombs terrorists and Osama Bin Laden that CIA failed to understand? You can only push excuses so far.

 

[DGM]

You can only push excuses so far.

Same goes with speculation and inherent distrust.

 

[Robrob]

So you trust the word of a CIA agent even though the company for which he works openly admits it is based on deception?

And of if that CIA agent was claiming something you liked, your response would be...?

you are basing your logic on the assumption that CIA is an open and honest organization that would never participate in a false flag operation.

Logic fail. All or Nothing fallacy. Who here has ever claimed the CIA would never participate in a false flag operation?

If you simply look at their attempt to get approval for Operation Northwoods you would see this is perfectly reasonable and part of their established record.

Thank you for providing evidence you have no idea what you are talking about. Reality is, the fabled "Operation Northwoods" was nothing but a 12 page "white paper" with some single sentence bullet points. It was immediately rejected 50 years ago by the White House and never, ever went any further than words on paper.

The true measure of CIA cooperation with FBI is their participation in the deceptive government version of TWA 800's shootdown.

Belief in multiple conspiracy theories, predictable.

What is it about Moussaoui being confirmed by French Intel as being associated with known airplanes-as-bombs terrorists and Osama Bin Laden that CIA failed to understand?

Please feel free to elaborate what it is you are trying to imply with this point. The sentence is vague.

 

[Axxman300]

So you trust the word of a CIA agent even though the company for which he works openly admits it is based on deception?

Yup, if you read the book you'd understand why too. As for the CIA, I hope they're doing sneaky stuff; that's what their job is.

That's what they want you to believe, however you are basing your logic on the assumption that CIA is an open and honest organization that would never participate in a false flag operation.

I HOPE that the CIA is running a false flag operations, undermining certain governments and rigging the system in our favor. Again, that is their job. At the end of the day the CIA is a government agency, just like the post office, or the DMV, and most people who work there are honest and law abiding.

They even have a gift shop.

If you simply look at their attempt to get approval for Operation Northwoods you would see this is perfectly reasonable and part of their established record.

Northwoods...blah, blah, blah. See,this is why nobody takes you seriously. You could have sited actual government conspiracies like Tuskegee Experiments, or exposing retarded kids to radiation, or the biological warfare exercise on the NYC subway system where the stand-in toxin killed six civilians in the late 1970s. Instead you went to the shallow end of the conspiracy-loon pool and offered up a non-event.

The true measure of CIA cooperation with FBI is their participation in the deceptive government version of TWA 800's shootdown

.

Except TWA wasn't shot down, its fuel tank exploded. The CIA cooperated because it needed to know if someone had smoked one of our jets too.

You have to ask yourself if internecine rivalry and excuse-making really stand as credible reason for CIA ignoring Rowley knocking on their door with a live suicide pilot?

Rowley didn't know that. They couldn't get a court order to search his computer so all they had was a guy with links to terror, and even today that's not enough to lock someone up (re:Boston).

What is it about Moussaoui being confirmed by French Intel as being associated with known airplanes-as-bombs terrorists and Osama Bin Laden that CIA failed to understand?

Oh, if you're paranoid about the CIA you should check out the DGSE's laundry some time.

Up until that point Al Qaeda had only successfully used truck-bombs and a small boat with high explosives. Bojinka had been a failure. The plot's mastermind, Ramzi Yousef was arrested in 1995.

The CIA's Alec Station understood. The FBI just didn't tell them, and the FBI dropped the ball on the names that CIA gave them to check out. Your lack of basic CIA knowledge is breathtaking.

 

[catsmate]

And the Gulf Of Tonkin after they killed JFK?

No, if you knew what you were talking about there were only 12 cockpit training facilities of the type Moussaoui was training in in the nation.

It was a false flag designed to justify the invasion of Viet Nam and the subsequent Viet Nam War.

Sorry, close analysis of the Gulf Of Tonkin Incident shows US ships were never fired on by any North VietNamese torpedo boats.

There was evidence that the Maddox, under Operation DESOTO, provoked North Viet Namese shore installations in order to incur the event on August 2nd and then completely fabricated a torpedo boat attack on the Maddox on the 4th.

The US then went into full propaganda mode with Johnson agitating for war, as was his assignemnt after the CIA placed him into the presidency after murdering Jack Kennedy.

Same goes with speculation and inherent distrust.

Indeed.

BTW, JB will you be returning to the TWA 800 thread you so ignominiously fled?

 

[Jetblast]

Yup, if you read the book you'd understand why too. As for the CIA, I hope they're doing sneaky stuff; that's what their job is.

You mean like setting-up false flag attacks?

I HOPE that the CIA is running a false flag operations, undermining certain governments and rigging the system in our favor. Again, that is their job. At the end of the day the CIA is a government agency, just like the post office, or the DMV, and most people who work there are honest and law abiding.

So you are kind of indirectly saying that the ones that aren't honest and law-abiding are the ones that commit the evil stuff I'm pointing-out like the false flag attack on 9-11? You should read the words of James Angleton when he said the most ruthless and willing to sell out other people for their own gains were those who were chosen for promotion at CIA. Angleton said they would probably burn in hell and included himself. Great group you endorse.

The creator of CIA, Truman, wrote an editorial a month after Kennedy's assassination saying the agency had gotten out of control and gone way beyond its original purpose as an intelligence-gathering organization and become a political policy enforcement organ it was never intended to be. It had become an organization not controlled by democracy. What message was Truman trying to send 1 month after Kennedy's assassination?

They even have a gift shop.

Berchtesgarten probably did too.

Northwoods...blah, blah, blah. See,this is why nobody takes you seriously. You could have sited actual government conspiracies like Tuskegee Experiments, or exposing retarded kids to radiation, or the biological warfare exercise on the NYC subway system where the stand-in toxin killed six civilians in the late 1970s. Instead you went to the shallow end of the conspiracy-loon pool and offered up a non-event.

Northwoods is actually a good analogy because it shows the full scale of a false flag and its intention as a pretext for invasion. I take your reply as the arrogant admission and boasting that it is.


.

Except TWA wasn't shot down, its fuel tank exploded. The CIA cooperated because it needed to know if someone had smoked one of our jets too.

After the CIA's Zoom Climb propaganda was scientifically disproven they came up with no explanation, meaning the official story is now disproven.

Rowley didn't know that. They couldn't get a court order to search his computer so all they had was a guy with links to terror, and even today that's not enough to lock someone up (re:Boston).

Ah ha. You know, known airliner fuel bomb terrorists are usually charged with visa violation.

Up until that point Al Qaeda had only successfully used truck-bombs and a small boat with high explosives. Bojinka had been a failure. The plot's mastermind, Ramzi Yousef was arrested in 1995.

Bojinka was only a failure because the bomb chemicals accidentally ignited in the Manila safe house causing the fire department to be called and exposing the plot. You are contending the government was not concerned with more players trying to bring down towers and blow-up 12 wide-bodies. Ho hum.

The CIA's Alec Station understood. The FBI just didn't tell them, and the FBI dropped the ball on the names that CIA gave them to check out. Your lack of basic CIA knowledge is breathtaking.

Ah ha. We'll just take their word for everything. After all, they are mostly honest and law-abiding.

 

[BStrong]

If Jetblast was really with the program, he would know that long before the Gulf of Tonkin, we had operators on the ground in Laos 57 - on (project White Star) and the fore-runner to the MAC-V adviser program was running about 5 minutes after Dien Bien Phu fell.

Well, that and the obligatory gratuitous reference to Northwoods, shows a lack of understanding of not just history, but reality.

 

[jaydeehess]

So you trust the word of a CIA agent even though the company for which he works openly admits it is based on deception? That's what they want you to believe, however you are basing your logic on the assumption that CIA is an open and honest organization that would never participate in a false flag operation. If you simply look at their attempt to get approval for Operation Northwoods you would see this is perfectly reasonable and part of their established record. The true measure of CIA cooperation with FBI is their participation in the deceptive government version of TWA 800's shootdown. You have to ask yourself if internecine rivalry and excuse-making really stand as credible reason for CIA ignoring Rowley knocking on their door with a live suicide pilot?

Why is it that Rowley herself is not credited with believing that the CIA were deliberately obfuscating her search and establishing a fake internecine rivalry, but you, an uninformed internet warrior, are doing so? I thought you trusted the word of this FBI agent.

What is it about Moussaoui being confirmed by French Intel as being associated with known airplanes-as-bombs terrorists and Osama Bin Laden that CIA failed to understand? You can only push excuses so far.

What about it? We have already established that the CIA did not pass along their Intel to the FBI easily, distrusted the FBI with Intel, and jealously guarded their Intel sources. We also know that the CIA at the time were woefully behind in technology at hdqtrs. Computers were not widespread, distrusted by top brass and those they had were out of date. This was the norm specifically to keep Intel within small groups even within the CIA, or is that also a lie intended to cover up what you know to actually have been going on inside the CIA?

 

[jaydeehess]

Ah ha. You know, known airliner fuel bomb terrorists are usually charged with visa violation.

No, since it was not fact that Mossaoui was a "known fuel bomb terrorist".
All they had to hold him on was the provable visa infraction do that was what he was charged with. If he had been charged with conspiracy to commit a terrorist act a lawyer could have sprung him in a heartbeat.

Bojinka was only a failure because the bomb chemicals accidentally ignited in the Manila safe house causing the fire department to be called and exposing the plot. You are contending the government was not concerned with more players trying to bring down towers and blow-up 12 wide-bodies. Ho hum.

With the mastermind of Bojinka arrested it barely registers as an on going and active threat in 2000/2001.
The fact remains that up to that point AlQada had not been able to mount a large scale attack of any sort either overseas or, more to the point, on US homeland soil. In fact the inability to keep their chemicals from prematurely giving them away is a point for not taking the reach for the sky aspirations of AQ too much to heart.
Couple that with the apparent incompetence of the man being held by Minnesota FBI, Mossaoui himself. Does any of this inspire the CIA into releasing the Intel they normally guard jealously from an agency they do not work with well and mistrust?