What if we had $50 million for a new investigation?

[Travis]

So Travis, its your hypothetical millions. Do LIHOPers get the same consideration as those who believe in fantastical mechanisms of death and destruction such as proposed by AE911T?

Well, if they can figure out how to investigate it I suppose it would be fine.

It was a false flag designed to justify the invasion of Viet Nam and the subsequent Viet Nam War.

No. No it was not.

And since you've listed that non false flag as a false flag attack I now wonder what other events you mistakenly think are false flags.

 

[tsig]

What does the Gulf Of Tonkin have to do with Northwoods?

Just north of the Gulf there are trees and since you can't see the forest for the trees from the back of a moving aircraft carrier this is proof positive of clandestine CIA involvement in 911.

 

[JLord]

So basically you just want to go against the gov't and "prove" them wrong no matter what, and then gloat about it...

I think it would be the use of money that would be most likely to satisfy people. I'm sure people would prefer some kind of hearings where a whole bunch of truthers could directly question Bush, Cheaney, etc., but this is something that money cannot buy. So within the parameters of the question I tried to think about how the money could be spent in such a way that it would be most likely to put the issue to rest. I think the "gloating" would be important because I think it is important for truthers to have some kind of big official recognition that they are right. Without that I think they would still be out there seeking approval regardless of the outcome of any study.

 

[Bell]

And since you've listed that non false flag as a false flag attack I now wonder what other events you mistakenly think are false flags.

Probably all of them

 

[LSSBB]

What does the Gulf Of Tonkin have to do with Northwoods?

Maybe he meant Lake Minnetonka, in the Great North Woods.

 

[thedopefishlives]

Maybe he meant Lake Minnetonka, in the Great North Woods.

Ain't no false flags up here, you betcha. Only Canadian ones.

 

[Gord_in_Toronto]

Ain't no false flags up here, you betcha. Only Canadian ones.

Let's not get too ridiculous here. No. Wait:

A time-honored tradition in the U.S. military, contingency plans have been drawn up for the defense against, and invasion of, most major military powers. In fact, in response to recent events on the Korean peninsula, the U.S. and South Korea recently signed on to such a plan. One of the most interesting episodes in this rich history of preparing for things that will probably never happen came when Uncle Sam planned to invade Johnny Canuck.

http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2013/07/the-u-s-plan-to-invade-canada-war-plan-red/

 

[Jetblast]

What type is that? You sure are short on facts.

I think we know who is short on facts. If you check it out the suicide pilots chose specific advanced cockpit simulator training the equipment for which was only available in 12 facilities in the US. How does this work, you're ignorant of the subject and I'm short on facts?


Wikipedia Atta:

Atta continued with flight training, including solo flights and simulator time. On December 22, Atta and Shehhi applied to Eagle International for large jet and simulator training for McDonnell Douglas DC-9 and Boeing 737–300 models. On December 26, Atta and Shehhi abandoned a Piper Cherokee on the runway of Miami International Airport. On December 29 and 30, Atta and Marwan went to the Opa-locka Airport where they practiced on a Boeing 727 simulator, and they obtained Boeing 767 simulator training from Pan Am International on December 31. Atta purchased flight deck videos for Boeing 747–200, Boeing 757–200, Airbus A320 and Boeing 767-300ER models via mail-order from Sporty's Pilot Shop in Batavia, Ohio in November and December 2000.[16]

I'd imagine the 767 facility would be the exclusive facility in reference. I read this in the Times back then.

They had Moussaoui in custody, a clear arab terrorist training for Boeing cockpit control, and you're telling me the Federal Bureau Of Investigation of the United States Government wasn't capable of looking for his pals who all had the exact same profile and entry history?

 

[beachnut]

I think we know who is short on facts. If you check it out the suicide pilots chose specific advanced cockpit simulator training the equipment for which was only available in 12 facilities in the US. How does this work, you're ignorant of the subject and I'm short on facts?


Wikipedia Atta:





I'd imagine the 767 facility would be the exclusive facility in reference. I read this in the Times back then.

They had Moussaoui in custody, a clear arab terrorist training for Boeing cockpit control, and you're telling me the Federal Bureau Of Investigation of the United States Government wasn't capable of looking for his pals who all had the exact same profile and entry history?

Who trained in a 767 simulator? lol, you don't read for content, you read and make up what you think you read. Who trained in a 747, where. What about the 727 sim? 737? Who did it in a biz jet sim? Where?

How do you make up this stuff you post? cut and paste, or original research?

What did Moussaoui train in? Where? Did Atta train there?

List the 12. Is this your imagination making up stuff? List the 12 places.

Wow, the entire would comes to the USA to learn to fly, you are going to arrest all the Arabs? Or all the pilots who are poor students? Are you going to read their minds? Arrest them using what law?

Did you google this stuff?

 

[Bell]

They had Moussaoui in custody, a clear arab terrorist training for Boeing cockpit control, and you're telling me the Federal Bureau Of Investigation of the United States Government wasn't capable of looking for his pals who all had the exact same profile and entry history?

Was Moussaoui investigated by the FBI for links to terrorism prior to 9/11?

 

[Jetblast]

Well, if they can figure out how to investigate it I suppose it would be fine.



No. No it was not.

And since you've listed that non false flag as a false flag attack I now wonder what other events you mistakenly think are false flags.

Sorry, close analysis of the Gulf Of Tonkin Incident shows US ships were never fired on by any North VietNamese torpedo boats. There was evidence that the Maddox, under Operation DESOTO, provoked North Viet Namese shore installations in order to incur the event on August 2nd and then completely fabricated a torpedo boat attack on the Maddox on the 4th. The US then went into full propaganda mode with Johnson agitating for war, as was his assignemnt after the CIA placed him into the presidency after murdering Jack Kennedy.

 

[Jetblast]

Was Moussaoui investigated by the FBI for links to terrorism prior to 9/11?

Minneapolis FBI agent Coleen Rowley asked permission to confiscate Moussaoui's computer to check further but was stopped by stand-down orders from higher up. Instead of simply doing their job and looking for other terrorists presently training in other facilities just like Moussaoui, they went out of their way to prevent any investigation.

 

[Jetblast]

Who trained in a 767 simulator? lol, you don't read for content, you read and make up what you think you read. Who trained in a 747, where. What about the 727 sim? 737? Who did it in a biz jet sim? Where?

How do you make up this stuff you post? cut and paste, or original research?

What did Moussaoui train in? Where? Did Atta train there?

List the 12. Is this your imagination making up stuff? List the 12 places.

Wow, the entire would comes to the USA to learn to fly, you are going to arrest all the Arabs? Or all the pilots who are poor students? Are you going to read their minds? Arrest them using what law?

Did you google this stuff?

Those are evasive questions. The point here is why didn't they look for others in the other 11 facilities? They're the FBI for goodness' sakes.

 

[beachnut]

Sorry, close analysis of the Gulf Of Tonkin Incident shows US ships were never fired on by any North VietNamese torpedo boats. There was evidence that the Maddox, under Operation DESOTO, provoked North Viet Namese shore installations in order to incur the event on August 2nd and then completely fabricated a torpedo boat attack on the Maddox on the 4th. The US then went into full propaganda mode with Johnson agitating for war, as was his assignemnt after the CIA placed him into the presidency after murdering Jack Kennedy.

So the 2 Aug ships destroyed were not real? And Johnson killed JFK? And 800 was shot down with missiles. You are a one stop CT poster of woo.

 

[Bell]

Minneapolis FBI agent Coleen Rowley asked permission to confiscate Moussaoui's computer to check further but was stopped by stand-down orders from higher up. Instead of simply doing their job and looking for other terrorists presently training in other facilities just like Moussaoui, they went out of their way to prevent any investigation.

Moussaoui wasn't investigated for terrorism, hence no criminal case regarding terrorism was made against him. Why then would the FBI call around to flight schools investigating if other students were on immigration violation?

 

[Bell]

Those are evasive questions. The point here is why didn't they look for others in the other 11 facilities? They're the FBI for goodness' sakes.

Because they had no reason to.

 

[beachnut]

Those are evasive questions. The point here is why didn't they look for others in the other 11 facilities? They're the FBI for goodness' sakes.

List the 12.

Seem like you need some of the 50 million to reserach your claims.

... Answer me why FBI, one of the most sophisticated state police agencies in the world, couldn't figure out to call the other 11 Flight simulator training facilities in America to see if they had any other trainees fitting the profile of Moussaoui?

...

So you want 50 million to figure out what?

List the 12 Flight simulator places. Did you know how many flight training schools offer simulator time? More than 12, less than 100, or more than 100?

Are the simulator faculties used by hundreds of schools?

Which students do we arrest? Arabs? Dumb pilots who can't speak English well? The poor students?

Now we know why Moussaoui was left out of the real plan, he was extra special dumb.

Plans to include Moussaoui were never completed because the al-Qaeda hierarchy allegedly had doubts about his reliability

How do you know which pilots will commit crime, and suicide?
Is that a study for the 50 million? You are making up lies about 911, 800, JFK, Johnson, and more - 50 million is not enough to cure BS artist who spread woo.

 

[jaydeehess]

I think it would be the use of money that would be most likely to satisfy people. I'm sure people would prefer some kind of hearings where a whole bunch of truthers could directly question Bush, Cheaney, etc., but this is something that money cannot buy. So within the parameters of the question I tried to think about how the money could be spent in such a way that it would be most likely to put the issue to rest. I think the "gloating" would be important because I think it is important for truthers to have some kind of big official recognition that they are right. Without that I think they would still be out there seeking approval regardless of the outcome of any study.

Well then you'd be wrong. Logic and reason dictate that proving something wrong does little to nothing to prove something else correct.

The events of 9/11 have been said to include controlled demolitions and other scenarios that are not included in the 'official story'. Proving THAT correct is not the same thing as proving the so called 'official story' incorrect. NIST can be wrong and still the collapse of the towers can have occurred by the combined effects of aircraft impact and large area office fires for instance.

 

[jaydeehess]

I think we know who is short on facts. If you check it out the suicide pilots chose specific advanced cockpit simulator training the equipment for which was only available in 12 facilities in the US. How does this work, you're ignorant of the subject and I'm short on facts?


Wikipedia Atta:





I'd imagine the 767 facility would be the exclusive facility in reference. I read this in the Times back then.

They had Moussaoui in custody, a clear arab terrorist training for Boeing cockpit control, and you're telling me the Federal Bureau Of Investigation of the United States Government wasn't capable of looking for his pals who all had the exact same profile and entry history?

You seem to be expecting the FBI in 2001 to be able to work backwards the same way you can today. That's called Monday Morning Quarter-backing.

No one is saying that the FBI was 'incapable' of anything. That's your hyperbolic response to others asking you what would have been involved.

I asked what 2001 foreign power the FISA warrant would say that Moussaoui would have been an agent of. Did I miss your response to that?

He was not picked up as a terrorist, he was picked up on visa infractions. Why? Because there was not enough to warrant a 2001 charge of terrorism.

So here you are, you have Mossaoui on visa infraction. Let's say that the FBI did go ahead and try for a FISA warrant and got it. How long would that have taken?
You cannot really go fishing through all flight schools yet asking about their student info. That's not kosher in 2001. First you need that warrant, then you have to find damning evidence on his computer, then you can look around at flight schools. You seem to think that the FBI would narrow the search to just schools with flight sims for large aircraft. Why do you assume that? Because that is what the other hijacker pilots did? no, no , no, you don't know about 9/11/01 yet (see how not using you Monday morning QB advantage works?) Hindsight is not allowed.
Ahh, but we have to assume that big 'if'. IF the FBI officers had decided that they could be successful in a FISA warrant. They did not however, believe that would be forthcoming, and they had reasons for that belief and manpower and budgetary issues to manage. If one believes that expending budget and manpower on something will result in no gain then one shuts that line of work down. THAT is a fact in any large organization.

 

[jaydeehess]

Those are evasive questions. The point here is why didn't they look for others in the other 11 facilities? They're the FBI for goodness' sakes.

NO!! Why would they look for other terrorist suspects when Mossaoui was not even charged as one yet? How do you justify that invasion of personal lives in 2001 and with only what you know about Mossaoui at the time he was arrested?

If they did, then why would they limit themselves to only flight schools that are the same level as the one Mossaoui was attending?

If they did then , in 2001, how long would it take to make sure you have narrowed down and listed all the schools in the USA (best include Canada as well) that do match the level of the ones Mossaoui attended?