Does God ever fail to keep his promises?

[MikeG]

Well said, Poblob14, and I have nominated you.

 

[poblob14]

Thanks, Intelligent Mike, my first nom. Do I get to give a speech?

I have edited my post to make clear that the women were executed by hanging ("hanged"), rather than being particularly well-endowed ("hung").

 

[Lukraak_Sisser]

I've noticed mikeb768 has said a LOT, but still hasn't answered ANTpogo's question about the bits he had to leave out to make the numbers add up.

How did you know which bits you could leave out and which bits you had to keep in?

 

[Agatha]

It's easy! If the maths comes up with a number you don't like, or to which you can't ascribe meaning, then add stuff or take stuff away until it does.

Numerology. Utter nonsense.

 

[mikeb768]

Let me get this right. You're manipulating the set of operations you perform on selected verses, to arrive at a result that aligns with your expectations?

When you use the word "manipulating" you actually mean "counting", then yes.

 

[mikeb768]

Last night I was all set to write a response to the OP's contention that those who disagree with him are ignorant, lazy and stupid. Somehow or other it didn't seem worth the effort. The possibility exists that someone here is ignorant, lazy and stupid. Either way it's clearly hopeless, and I've got stuff to do. Good luck.

When all else fails then just resort to indirect personal attacks. I see how it works.

 

[Craig B]

When you use the word "manipulating" you actually mean "counting", then yes.

What about the multiplying and dividing of the nineteen angels? I am relieved that you are not manipulating these beings.

 

[mikeb768]

I can't find them at the moment, but there have been all kinds of things done to demonstrate that numerology is bunk by, for example, showing how it works for War And Peace or Harry Potter. Pick a text and you can make it fit, if you want.

Please post the examples of this so that we can evaluate and compare. I keep hearing about similar such works but as of yet no one has managed to provide any specific details or a link.

 

[Craig B]

Please post the examples of this so that we can evaluate and compare. I keep hearing about similar such works but as of yet no one has managed to provide any specific details or a link.

Here's one on how to extract "Bible Code" type messages from Moby Dick. http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html

 

[mikeb768]

And god didn't write the Qur'an, either, seeing as how there are differing versions of it and the history of its development is not as simple and straightforward as you would have us believe (Link). Ironic because, just as there are different versions of the Bible, and many Christians tend to ignore the origins of their own holy book. Yet here you sit and throw stones at the Bible, while some Christians do the same thing with the Qur'an; you each use the same arguments against the other religion, while ignoring the same glaring flaws within your own religion.

If you would have taken the time to read the link you posted you would have seen that the disputes which come from early versions lack true merit.

For example part of the article mentions that Sura "Al Fātiḥa" was left out of one early codex. Any Muslim will tell you that Al Fātiḥa was actually the only Sura which was revealed not once but twice. So if every other sura was important enough to have been included after only being revealed to the prophet only once then most definitely the only sura which was revealed twice should not be left out.

Suras 113 (Al-Falaq) and 114 (An-Nas) which were also said to have been left out of one codex are both mentioned by name in Sahih al-Bukhari (Authentic Hadith), along with Sahih Muslim these two books are the most authentic books after the Quran. If you have any knowledge of "isnad" and "ahadith" you may be able to understand why a Quran codex which did not include these two suras would be considered unauthentic.

I'm not throwing stones at the Bible when I say that it is a book which contains errors and is still undergoing change. Actually my comments are quite in agreement with any honest Bible scholar. Take the works of "Bart D. Ehrman", just to name one.
Or follow the link and see for yourself. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bible_verses_not_included_in_modern_translations
Although the dates of these changes have been omitted it is quite easy to see that the range of publication dates for these Bibles is Quite broad (spanning from Good News Bible which was published in 1976 all the way through more recent translations). The book continues to evolve, hopefully coming a little closer to authenticity each time.

 

[Garrison]

Not exactly, it is easy to see that although the Bible contains many truths it also contains a great deal of false and conflicting information and has no doubt been altered by man on numerous occasions (something which is still taking place even to this day).

List of Bible verses not included in modern translations
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bible_verses_not_included_in_modern_translations

And doubtless those who believe in the Bible would be able to come up with mirror image claims about the Koran. It's about as meaningful as arguing whether Superman is stronger than the Hulk...

 

[mikeb768]

What about the multiplying and dividing of the nineteen angels? I am relieved that you are not manipulating these beings.

If you are "anti" multiplication you can stick with addition (although it just makes for additional work). I'm pretty sure most people learn this in grade school.

[Quran 74:26-31] points us to the number 19. But maybe you would rather add (in order that we remain consistent possibly)?

Quran consists of 114 suras, 19+19+19+19+19+19
The Bismalah occurs 114 times, despite its conspicuous absence from Sura 9 (it occurs twice in Sura 27), 19+19+19+19+19+19
The famous first revelation [96:1-5] consists of 19 words.
The last revelation (Sura 110) consists of 19 words.
The second word "Allah" (God) occurs 2698 times, 19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+1919+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+1919+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+1919+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+1919+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19 (there should be 142 number 19's for this to be accurate, or you could just divide).
*I will stop here, the last time I posted too many number 19 references someone alerted a moderator.

Also if anyone accuses me practicing numerology I'm blaming you Craig B.

 

[Garrison]

When all else fails then just resort to indirect personal attacks. I see how it works.

Well I suppose criticizing the quality of your work and pointing out the worthlessness of numerology could be classed as an indirect personal attack....

 

[Garrison]

If you are "anti" multiplication you can stick with addition (although it just makes for additional work). I'm pretty sure most people learn this in grade school.

[Quran 74:26-31] points us to the number 19. But maybe you would rather add (in order that we remain consistent possibly)?

Quran consists of 114 suras, 19+19+19+19+19+19
The Bismalah occurs 114 times, despite its conspicuous absence from Sura 9 (it occurs twice in Sura 27), 19+19+19+19+19+19
The famous first revelation [96:1-5] consists of 19 words.
The last revelation (Sura 110) consists of 19 words.
The second word "Allah" (God) occurs 2698 times, 19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+1919+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+1919+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+1919+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+1919+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19 (there should be 142 number 19's for this to be accurate, or you could just divide).
*I will stop here, the last time I posted too many number 19 references someone alerted a moderator.

Also if anyone accuses me practicing numerology I'm blaming you Craig B.

And if you get accused of posting meaningless nonsense?

 

[Craig B]

... Sahih al-Bukhari (Authentic Hadith), along with Sahih Muslim these two books are the most authentic books after the Quran

And of the items which their authors examined, what percentage did they accept as authentic and include in their collections?

 

[mikeb768]

Here's one on how to extract "Bible Code" type messages from Moby Dick. http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html

This is in all honesty, ROFL! I have not laughed that hard in a while think I may have injured my neck, I laughed so hard, ouch, I'm being so serious.

*Not sure how to convey the fact that I truly did just hurt myself in a manner where you guys won't think I'm just trying to be funny.

 

[dafydd]

This is in all honesty, ROFL! I have not laughed that hard in a while think I may have injured my neck, I laughed so hard, ouch, I'm being so serious.

*Not sure how to convey the fact that I truly did just hurt myself in a manner where you guys won't think I'm just trying to be funny.

Every form of numerology is laughable, including yours.

 

[mikeb768]

Well, no, actually. I won't go ahead with it because it is an entirely meaningless exercise. It is futile. Even if, somehow, I contrived to find a way of making some sort of mathematical pattern out of the numbers you have given us, why the hell does that mean god did it?

Are you epix reincarnated?

Mike

I keep hearing about epix so I guess I will have to make some time to check out what he has posted.

We are all free to do as we will. Many people are under the false understanding that God needs us, or that God needs us to worship him. Definitely not the case.

I could not find the supporting verse yesterday but this is what I was looking for:
"but if any deny faith, (know) God stands not in need of any of His creatures."
[Quran 3:97]

Consider again not just the numbers which I have shown you but the life of the prophet both before and after revelation. Consider the contents of the book, the claims made there in and promises which God makes to his creation. If you have not already then you should take the time to actually read what the Quran has to say for yourself. People should not allow others to decide for them what is truth, seek the truth.

May God guide all of those who are sincere, peace be up on you all.

 

[Garrison]

I keep hearing about epix so I guess I will have to make some time to check out what he has posted.



I could not find the supporting verse yesterday but this is what I was looking for:
"but if any deny faith, (know) God stands not in need of any of His creatures."
[Quran 3:97]

Consider again not just the numbers which I have shown you but the life of the prophet both before and after revelation. Consider the contents of the book, the claims made there in and promises which God makes to his creation. If you have not already then you should take the time to actually read what the Quran has to say for yourself. People should not allow others to decide for them what is truth, seek the truth.

And yet that is exactly what you have done by taking the word of those who created the bible. The truth is there is not a shred of evidence for any god; and every reason to assume they simply do not exist. Embrace the truth and face the world as it really is; not as some medieval fantasy would have it be.

May God guide all of those who are sincere, peace be up on you all.

You might as well say 'may the force be with you'; snappier and more plausible...

 

[A'isha]

If you would have taken the time to read the link you posted you would have seen that the disputes which come from early versions lack true merit.

What about A'isha's recounting of the stoning-verse and the ten-suckling verse and why they aren't in the Qur'an, as found in Sunan ibn Majah and ibn Kutayba's Mukhtalif al-Hadith?