• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

Does God ever fail to keep his promises?

Apology said:
Once I was having a very civilized debate with a strong Christian believer, and I asked him as respectfully as possible what he thought about the latest Jesus-in-a-tortilla flap, or Virgin-Mary-in-a-dirty window, or whatever the latest paredolia phenomenon being reported on the news. He said to me:

I suggest that hidden numerology codes are just as gimmicky and obscure as Jesus on toast. I didn't agree with this man about much, but I had to agree that it was hard to imagine that God would reveal itself by playing arcane mind games with us.

Coincidentally, that's also a good justification for discounting all religious texts of the world. If God wanted to reveal itself, why would it provide us with books and literature that left so much to interpretation and required us to pick and choose between passages in order to make sense of God's proclamation? One would think that God would want its laws and its intentions to be completely clear, and it would be well aware that humans aren't that smart.
Click to expand...

This entire post makes me think of this image:

 
mikeb768 said:
If you would have taken the time to read the link you posted you would have seen that the disputes which come from early versions lack true merit.
Click to expand...

The funny thing is that if you actually bother reading the link I provided (here it is again), you would have seen that there are a number of Qur'an scholars who actually disagree with you, some of whom are also Muslim...

... Muslim and non-Muslim scholars alike disagree on whether Muhammad compiled the Qur'an during his lifetime or if this task began with the first caliph...
Click to expand...

Well, I guess those dissenting Islamic scholars aren't true Muslims :rolleyes:

**ETA: I also find this particular part of the link I provided above to be quite revealing...

... Upon the canonization of the Qur'an, Uthman ordered the burning of all personal copies of the Qur'an. The reason why Uthman gave this order is discussed further in the section below entitled "The Collection of the Qur'an". The copy of quran kept with wife of Mohammad named Hafsa was accepted for public. Until then, several copies of Quran were available in different regions of Arabia with some grammatical errors, so Uthman's order allowed only one version of Quran to exist to prevent any misinterpretation of quranic text or word of God (Allah)...
Click to expand...

So for all your harping about the Qur'an, it seems there were many different versions until one man with a whole lot of power within Islam unilaterally declared that his version was the correct one and subsequently burned all the other Qur'ans.

You are the Islamic copy of so many fundamentalist Christians I've dealt with before when they make similar apologetic arguments for the infallibility of the Bible. And your arguments are just as facile and silly.

*Yawn* Nothing new to see here.
 
Last edited:
MattusMaximus said:
So for all your harping about the Qur'an, it seems there were many different versions until one man with a whole lot of power within Islam unilaterally declared that his version was the correct one and subsequently burned all the other Qur'ans.
Click to expand...

One of them may actually have survived...the Sana'a Manuscript, which Behnam Sadeghi and Mohsen Goudarzi speculate may have been one of these "Companion maṣāḥif" that predated the ʻUthmānic rescension.

You are the Islamic copy of so many fundamentalist Christians I've dealt with before when they make similar apologetic arguments for the infallibility of the Bible. And your arguments are just as facile and silly.

*Yawn* Nothing new to see here.
Click to expand...

At least they don't use sad-sack numerology as part of their apologia, though, which makes his arguments even more facile and silly than theirs.
 
Last edited:
mikeb768 said:
This is in all honesty, ROFL! I have not laughed that hard in a while think I may have injured my neck, I laughed so hard, ouch, I'm being so serious.

*Not sure how to convey the fact that I truly did just hurt myself in a manner where you guys won't think I'm just trying to be funny.
Click to expand...

Argument by ROFL, we see that a lot.
 
ANTPogo said:
At least they don't use sad-sack numerology as part of their apologia, though, which makes his arguments even more facile and silly than theirs.
Click to expand...

Ahem...

What is Biblical Numerology?
It seems quite obvious that the Bible uses numbers in patterns. Who can deny that 40 is significant? Jesus was in the desert for 40 days, and the Israelites wandered in the desert for 40 years...
Click to expand...

So yeah, it's just stupid all the way around, whether the source is Christian or Islamic.
 
By the way, in Islam the Bible is considered part of God's true revelation, albeit an incomplete one that necessitated the revelation of the Quran to Muhammad. Islam does not deny the Bible or the events it describes, but rather has a different interpretation of them. The fundamental difference from Christianity is that Muslims believe Jesus was a great prophet in a long line of prophets, not the literal masiach / messiah, and that Muhammad was the last of God's prophets. The fundamental difference from Judaism is that Islam disagrees over the rightful heir of Abraham; Judaism says Isaac, Islam says Ishmael, and the roles of the sons are reversed in the story.

It's strange therefore that an adherent of the Quran would disown the Bible.
 
mikeb768 said:
... Quran consists of 114 suras, 19+19+19+19+19+19
The Bismalah occurs 114 times, despite its conspicuous absence from Sura 9 (it occurs twice in Sura 27), 19+19+19+19+19+19
The famous first revelation [96:1-5] consists of 19 words.
The last revelation (Sura 110) consists of 19 words.
The second word "Allah" (God) occurs 2698 times, 19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+1919+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+1919+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+1919+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+1919+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19+19 (there should be 142 number 19's for this to be accurate, or you could just divide).
*I will stop here, the last time I posted too many number 19 references someone alerted a moderator.

Also if anyone accuses me practicing numerology I'm blaming you Craig B.
Click to expand...
Numerology? You? Perish the thought!
 
ANTPogo said:
... One of them may actually have survived...the Sana'a Manuscript, which Behnam Sadeghi and Mohsen Goudarzi speculate may have been one of these "Companion maṣāḥif" that predated the ʻUthmānic rescension.
Click to expand...
You really think it possible that this is pre-Uthmanic? Is there anything useful about the Sana'a document on the Internet? I find this possibility quite fascinating.
 
mikeb768 said:
*Not sure how to convey the fact that I truly did just hurt myself in a manner where you guys won't think I'm just trying to be funny.
Click to expand...

Well, you're a comic genius then. Your posts are are hilarious, apparently without trying.

Tell me, do you think you've persuaded anyone yet? Do you think any of us are more persuaded than we were? Is numero-babble likely to A/ make people suddenly realise the error of their ways, or B/ laugh?

Mike
 
mikeb768 said:
This is in all honesty, ROFL! I have not laughed that hard in a while think I may have injured my neck, I laughed so hard, ouch, I'm being so serious.

*Not sure how to convey the fact that I truly did just hurt myself in a manner where you guys won't think I'm just trying to be funny.
Click to expand...

Well, maybe now you can imagine how most of us feel about your OP. :rolleyes:
 
MattusMaximus said:
Ahem...

What is Biblical Numerology?


So yeah, it's just stupid all the way around, whether the source is Christian or Islamic.
Click to expand...

You're right; I take it back! I'd also forgotten the role of numerology in all the End Times stuff.

Craig B said:
You really think it possible that this is pre-Uthmanic?
Click to expand...

Dating on the manuscript certainly raises the possibility.

Is there anything useful about the Sana'a document on the Internet? I find this possibility quite fascinating.
Click to expand...

Sadeghi and Goudarzi's journal article "Ṣan‘ā’ 1 and the Origins of the Qur’ān" should be available by googling it.
 
I see nothing but numerology here... plug this stuff into the ET Corn Dog translation program and I might come back.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom