The etchics of keeping cats

[Lisa Simpson]

I've had quite a few cats over the years, and it's always seemed to me that it would be horribly cruel to force one to remain indoors for its whole life. By all means offer them the indoors as a safe haven should they want to remain there. But in the end they are grown beings, independently minded and perfectly able to make choices for themselves. They're well aware that the outdoors is a big place with many dangers; if they choose to go out there anyway, I think they have every right to do so.

Great. My cat must be "well aware" of the dangers of drinking the ethylene glycol from my neighbor's leaky car. That will be a comfort to my kids when the cat dies.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

If you want my cats you'll have to pry their long, sharp claws from my back!

 

[Piggy]

I've had quite a few cats over the years, and it's always seemed to me that it would be horribly cruel to force one to remain indoors for its whole life. By all means offer them the indoors as a safe haven should they want to remain there. But in the end they are grown beings, independently minded and perfectly able to make choices for themselves. They're well aware that the outdoors is a big place with many dangers; if they choose to go out there anyway, I think they have every right to do so.

The fence I installed was expensive. But at the end of the day, I simply couldn't live with myself if I deprived these creatures whom I love of the simple basic pleasure of sitting in the sunshine on the grass and breathing fresh air on a beautiful spring afternoon.

The golden rule doesn't just apply to us monkeys, after all.

 

[332nd]

There was a fascinating study done recently on owned and feral cats, who were tagged and whose movements were tracked.

Some of the cats had pretty wide-ranging territories.

But all of the cats, both owned and feral, stuck close to human structures. None of them ventured out into the bush.

It seems that the domestic cat is exactly that. It has evolved to live in symbiosis with humans.

If I had 1/2 oz of sense, I would've done several studies at The Cat Ranch.* One thing I noticed was that a fair number of ferals that had to be put in the hospital barn wouldn't want to leave once they realized that food & safety were assured.

* I need to post part 2 of that story at some point.

 

[Akri]

I've had quite a few cats over the years, and it's always seemed to me that it would be horribly cruel to force one to remain indoors for its whole life. By all means offer them the indoors as a safe haven should they want to remain there. But in the end they are grown beings, independently minded and perfectly able to make choices for themselves. They're well aware that the outdoors is a big place with many dangers; if they choose to go out there anyway, I think they have every right to do so.

This is incorrect, and dangerous, advice. Cats are NOT "perfectly able to make choices for themselves". Some might be, but others (like my brother's cat) will happily swallow chunks of rubber that then have to be surgically removed. Not all cats know which foods are poison to them, or understand that roads can have fast-moving death-machines come out of nowhere, or that winged killers can drop from above to devour them.

You're anthropomorphizing, and that can have deadly consequences.

 

[This is The End]

Is it still right to keep them down there?

The cats??

 

[This is The End]

Are these women likely to get hit by a car and killed, or seriously injured where they'll drag themselves somewhere to slowly die in extreme agony? Is there a chance they'll be hunted and killed for food? Could they inadvertently eat something that was poisoned? Will someone shoot these women for pooping in a flower garden?

Maybe.

Depends on who they are and where they live.

Reverse anthropomorphizing??

 

[alfaniner]

Here's a picture of my terribly deprived cat, Bogart.

I can't believe it took until post #68 to post a picture of a cat, in a thread about cats!

 

[Agatha]

I have had cats who preferred to stay indoors all the time, and cats who would howl to be let out. I've always lived in relatively safe places although I did have one cat run over and killed by a car when I lived in a city.

Serena, the cat I have now, is blind so she goes out on a harness and lead for a walk, or I let her into the enclosed back garden. She usually comes running in if the magpies start chattering, or a leaf blows into her face, but she can't sense all the dangers so I have to keep a very close eye on her. She's only a young cat, three years old, and she loves to sit in an open doorway so she can experience the outside world while still being protected in the house. Apparently some blind cats still hunt and even catch prey, but Serena doesn't.

The feline ophthalmologist said her blindness may have been due to her previous owners feeding her on the wrong foods, such as dog food. Whatever the reason, she'll never recover her sight so she'll always need close monitoring.

Those cat runs look like a wonderful way of allowing a cat out in safety where there are dangerous roads or predators.

 

[Brian-M]

There's one major advantage of having an outdoor cat that nobody's mentioned yet.

You don't need to change the litter box nearly as often.

 

[Seismosaurus]

Great. My cat must be "well aware" of the dangers of drinking the ethylene glycol from my neighbor's leaky car. That will be a comfort to my kids when the cat dies.

They may not understand a particular danger, but they know the outside is a dangerous place. And if you and the kids can't handle owning a cat then you shouldn't get a cat.

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

I think this is something of a common misconception. Looking for a reputable source I find...

A pet that spends more time outdoors may live on average 2 to 3 years less than a cat that lives exclusively indoors.
​

Source: http://www.vetinfo.com/indoor-outdoor-cat-life-expectancy.html

Living on average for 2 to 3 years less is very different from only living on average for 2 to 3 years.

Actually, the stats I was referring to are in the next paragraph. I was going for the two extreme ends. I am sure people's cats will fall in the middle depending on how much time they spend outside, but "more time outdoors" is hardly a helpful criteria.

It isn't divided between outdoor and indoor cats. Thinking in terms of percent of time outside is more accurate.

 

[Brian-M]

It isn't divided between outdoor and indoor cats. Thinking in terms of percent of time outside is more accurate.

Although, how the cat employs the outdoor time is also a factor. A cat that spends its time sunning itself on the carport roof or chasing lizards around the backyard is in less danger than a cat that crosses several busy streets to get to its favorite scratching post.

 

[GlennB]

The 2-3 year average lifespan for post-kitten feral cats looks a bit like one of those "sticky numbers" that enters popular circulation and is hard to budge.

Reading the (anecdotal, it's true) accounts in several "feral cat project" websites they either quote 2-3 years with no further comment or take that number and dispute it pretty enthusiastically. What I can't find is such a project that suggests 2-3 years based on what they observe.

 

[Piggy]

The cats??

No, the women.

 

[Piggy]

Reverse anthropomorphizing??

Yes!

 

[Brian-M]

Actually, the stats I was referring to are in the next paragraph. I was going for the two extreme ends. I am sure people's cats will fall in the middle depending on how much time they spend outside, but "more time outdoors" is hardly a helpful criteria.

*finds link and looks up the next paragraph*

Stray and feral cats live significantly less. On average, a stray cat lives 5 years if he is in a community of cats and 2 to 3 years if he lives by himself. This is due to unbalanced nutrition and lack of veterinary treatment and vaccinations. In addition, feral cats may get killed while fighting other wild animals.​

So... by "outdoor cats", you were referring to stray and feral cats which aren't given food, shelter or medical care? That's not what most people mean by "outdoor cats".

 

[Piggy]

For those interested:

Cat enclosures

Cat habitats and accessories on Pinterest

Google image links for outdoor cat enclosures and furniture

There are lots of options!

 

[AlBell]

Re Title, I want to know why you etch cats?

 

[jasonpatterson]

I am beginning to think it is unethical to keep cats, at least for someone who lives in a place where letting them outside is too dangerous.

Thoughts on the matter?

IXP

I don't see why it is unethical to keep an animal from doing something that is dangerous to it when it isn't capable of understanding the danger. That's exactly the responsibility you accept when you decide to have a cat, dog, or velociraptor.

In exactly the same way that I don't let my cat run around outside, I didn't let my children play outside unsupervised until they were old enough to understand how to stay out of danger. If a cat could be trained to stay out of the road and come in when strange and dangerous animals came into its yard while not slaughtering everything it could touch, then sure, it would make sense to let it out.

One thing that you didn't account for in your consideration is the danger to motorists. Twice you had cats struck by cars. Imagine how many close calls there were prior to these events. People brake hard and swerve to avoid animals, and it causes a small, but not insignificant number of auto accidents each year (~1000 annually in the US from cats and dogs from what I can find - the car/animal crash statistics mostly involve deer/car collisions here, and pig/car collisions in Europe.)