The etchics of keeping cats

[Piggy]

You are violating an animal's natural right to live in hunger and die of disease by keeping them as pets in the first place. But domesticated cats and dogs have been with humans for thousands if not 10s of thousands of years, so we've decided to get over it and make the relationship mutually beneficial.

There was a fascinating study done recently on owned and feral cats, who were tagged and whose movements were tracked.

Some of the cats had pretty wide-ranging territories.

But all of the cats, both owned and feral, stuck close to human structures. None of them ventured out into the bush.

It seems that the domestic cat is exactly that. It has evolved to live in symbiosis with humans.

 

[Quinn]

I can't believe this thread has gone on this long without a single mention of the well-established fact that cats are minions of Satan, sent to earth to spread cancer. What's the matter with you people?

 

[Piggy]

I have two cats. At this point, both rather elderly. One is around 17, the other s 15. The older of the two, he's having some health issues, but it looks like a diet change, and some medicates will take care of it. The younger, she's slowed down a little bit, but still acts like a kitten sometimes.

Neither of them goes outside. The female did once, by accident, and was terrified by the experience. If the door is open, they'll peer around, but won't go out.
Inside they have places to climb, warm laps to sleep on, and a dog to harass and torment. If they feel the need to hunt, they can go looking for stray crickets (I have a pet chameleon as well. His food occasionally gets loose.)

I wouldn't have it any other way. They're quite happy in their home, and their people. And we don't have to worry if they'll get hurt or injured outside.

I have two cats, sisters, one with a dominant personality, the other with a subordinate personality. (Unlike dogs, cats do not adjust to changes in social groups, they appear to be either dominant or submissive from birth.) The subordinate cat is larger, but will allow the other to steal her food and toys and to block her access to the cat door if I'm not watching.

The dominant cat talks tough, but when she's sick, all she wants to do is be right up next to me all the time. And if she gets outside the house, except for the fenced area, which she's done 3 times, she freaks out! The last time it happened, she turned tail and ran back so fast that she slammed into the screen door at full tilt!

The submissive cat has gotten out twice. Each time I was able to go out and simply squat down and talk to her. She gave me this meow that said, "This is really cool… I know I'm not supposed to be out here… but it's really cool." She came to me nonetheless.

The last time it happened, I picked her up and held her for a while, let her look at things.

It made me sad to bring her back inside the fence, but when I thought of all the cats I see run over out here, and all the dogs that roam free in this area, and how I had to put my beloved crazy Jackie to sleep that time, I weighed my options, brought her inside the fence, kissed her, and put her down again.

 

[This is The End]

You are violating the cats natural cat rights by keeping it locked inside like a prisoner when it clearly wants to go outside. It would be no different from forcibly keeping women locked inside your basement for "companionship".

Your analogy is nearly as incorrect as an analogy can get.

 

[Alareth]

Another time I had some pet sheep. I let them out to wander, but only in a fenced field. The neighbors complained and tried to report me to the authorities, but every time they called the city they'd ask "how many sheep?" and when they went to count them they'd fall asleep. Really, unauthorized sheep herdery is the perfect crime. And the sheep would eat the heads of the sleepers. Adorable.

You see folks! This is why I'm here today! To bring attention to the dangers of unauthorized sheep herding! Nary is there another more dangerous activity in our great nation, and thus, our glorious planet! Unauthorized sheep herding shall be whispered upon our children's lips as the 8th great sin!

Today, I reveal to you my life's work! I unveil to you:

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Halt Unauthorized Sheep Herdery
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I, through HUSH, will dedicate my time on Earth to dissolve and destroy all those who mean harm against men, women, children, and sheep alike!

HUSH shall quiet the qualms!
HUSH shall silence the screams!
HUSH shall mute the mutton!

Only through HUSH can you find peace!

Join NOW!

Please, please send donations...like...now. They are about to evict me...

 

[Piggy]

Your analogy is nearly as incorrect as an analogy can get.

I dunno. Doesn't sound bad to me.

Let's assume that the basement is lavishly furnished and is stocked with delicious food and there's more than one woman locked up down there so there's companionship, and the house is on a slope so that one side has windows and there are games available which the captive women can play at their leisure.

Let's also assume that from time to time a doctor is brought in to make sure the women are healthy.

Is it still right to keep them down there?

 

[Brian-M]

My wife and I live on a busy road in the city, but with a bit of forest behind us. A stray cat had been hanging out in our back yard, most likely because we feed birds. Eventually, on a very cold day, it literally begged us to let it in the house. So we now had a pet cat. Naturally, this cat was an outdoor cat, choosing to spend much of his time roaming. And, as is the fate of outdoor cats, he was killed by a car after we had kept him for about 6 years.

I also adopted a stray that was living in my backyard. At first I simply started leaving out food and water (without letting her into the house) so that she wouldn't starve or go thirsty, but when she gave birth to a litter of kittens eight weeks later (which means that she was already a week pregnant when she first showed up), I decided to do things properly.

After finding homes for the kittens, I got her spayed, vaccinated, microchipped and registered, and started letting her stay in the house. I had to keep her in at first, so that she wouldn't tear her stitches, but the local laws say that I'm supposed to keep her inside at night.

Mostly I put her outside when I go out for the day, or when she sits at the door expecting me to let her out, or when she gets excitable, running back and forth and clawing at the sofa. I let her in when she starts tapping at the front door, or after I go to the toilet I open the back door (which I'm passing anyway) to let her in if she wants to. (Usually she heads straight to the dry food bowl. I stopped leaving dry food outside, because it was attracting hordes of slugs.)

There's no predators around, and very little traffic, so there's not much danger in letting her out. I leave the small gate that leads to underneath the house open, so she has a good place to hide or shelter to from the rain.

I wouldn't want to keep her confined to the house. Keeping her confined to such a small area indefinitely would seem somewhat cruel.

If she ever does get hit by a car or die some other way by being outside, at least I know that she lived a far better life than if I'd simply ignored her when she first showed up.

 

[Lisa Simpson]

Here's a picture of my terribly deprived cat, Bogart. I really need to put the sheets back on the bed, but I don't want to move him.

 

[BStrong]

My Bella cat sticks to our side yard for her outdoor adventures and shows no intention of going farther, and I've had happy indoor cats.

You are quite correct in your observation about outdoor cats - they are in danger and are more likely to have health issues than indoor cats - I like my kittys healthy and alive.

ETA: Bella the terrorist cat:

Taking a nap with the MommyCat:

Her terroristic handiwork:

 

[Tsukasa Buddha]

Putting aside wildlife effects, because they weren't part of the original parameters, I would disagree with this assessment:

So if we kept them inside, we were putting our desires (to keep the cat and birds alive) above those of the cat.

If I stop my dog from eating chocolate, am I putting my desires over his? No, I am putting his greater interest over his short-sighted desire (not that he can help it!). That is the basis of animal care.

Outdoor cats live on average to about 2-3 years (will vary by region). Indoor cats will live on average 12-15 years, and living up to 20 years is common. And those years will be healthier and less dangerous (diseases, hunger, cars, dogs, coyotes, other cats, hawks, parasites, etc.). That is enough for me to say indoor is the way to go right there.

 

[Shalamar]

I dunno. Doesn't sound bad to me.

Let's assume that the basement is lavishly furnished and is stocked with delicious food and there's more than one woman locked up down there so there's companionship, and the house is on a slope so that one side has windows and there are games available which the captive women can play at their leisure.

Let's also assume that from time to time a doctor is brought in to make sure the women are healthy.

Is it still right to keep them down there?

Are these women likely to get hit by a car and killed, or seriously injured where they'll drag themselves somewhere to slowly die in extreme agony? Is there a chance they'll be hunted and killed for food? Could they inadvertently eat something that was poisoned? Will someone shoot these women for pooping in a flower garden?

 

[Brian-M]

Outdoor cats live on average to about 2-3 years (will vary by region).

I think this is something of a common misconception. Looking for a reputable source I find...

A pet that spends more time outdoors may live on average 2 to 3 years less than a cat that lives exclusively indoors.
​

Source: http://www.vetinfo.com/indoor-outdoor-cat-life-expectancy.html

Living on average for 2 to 3 years less is very different from only living on average for 2 to 3 years.

Are these women likely to get hit by a car and killed, or seriously injured where they'll drag themselves somewhere to slowly die in extreme agony? Is there a chance they'll be hunted and killed for food? Could they inadvertently eat something that was poisoned? Will someone shoot these women for pooping in a flower garden?

Is your cat likely to get killed by a mugger, get drunk and drive its car into a tree, take up smoking or develop a heroin addiction?

 

[Piggy]

If she ever does get hit by a car or die some other way by being outside, at least I know that she lived a far better life than if I'd simply ignored her when she first showed up.

Aye.

 

[Piggy]

Here's a picture of my terribly deprived cat, Bogart. I really need to put the sheets back on the bed, but I don't want to move him.

Oh, how adorable!

I wish my gals were photogenic, but they're all jet black, so pictures of them just come out looking like blobs with glowing green eyes.

 

[Shalamar]

I think this is something of a common misconception. Looking for a reputable source I find...

A pet that spends more time outdoors may live on average 2 to 3 years less than a cat that lives exclusively indoors.
​

Source: http://www.vetinfo.com/indoor-outdoor-cat-life-expectancy.html

Living on average for 2 to 3 years less is very different from only living on average for 2 to 3 years.




Is your cat likely to get killed by a mugger, get drunk and drive its car into a tree, take up smoking or develop a heroin addiction?

Very unlikely. They don't have opposeable thumbs, nor do they have jobs to buy heroin.

Mind you, if they could band together, they may well BE the muggers to feed a cat-nip habit.

 

[Piggy]

Are these women likely to get hit by a car and killed, or seriously injured where they'll drag themselves somewhere to slowly die in extreme agony? Is there a chance they'll be hunted and killed for food? Could they inadvertently eat something that was poisoned? Will someone shoot these women for pooping in a flower garden?

Maybe.

Depends on who they are and where they live.

As I mentioned upthread, I previously kept "barn cats", but where I am now I've opted to fence my cats in.

All I'm saying, really, is that we should understand that if we keep our cats indoors, yes, we're keeping them safe. But at the same time, we're depriving them of some of the true joys of being a cat.

I don't think that any of us would choose total protection and safety over the chance to take some risks and, thereby, feel grass under our feet and lie in the open sunshine when we chose.

Let's at least admit that there's a trade-off we're making on our cats' behalf.

 

[TjW]

I can't believe this thread has gone on this long without a single mention of the well-established fact that cats are minions of Satan, sent to earth to spread cancer. What's the matter with you people?

Much like a cat, that goes without saying.

 

[rustypouch]

Domestic animals are for your amusement and pleasure.

Do whatever pleases you the most.

Are you comfortable letting your plaything out whenever, knowing it may meet an untimely end? If so, let it run free. If you take more joy from keeping it inside and letting it get fat, don't let it out.

 

[Piggy]

Domestic animals are for your amusement and pleasure.

Yeah, just like your domestic women and children, right?

 

[Seismosaurus]

I've had quite a few cats over the years, and it's always seemed to me that it would be horribly cruel to force one to remain indoors for its whole life. By all means offer them the indoors as a safe haven should they want to remain there. But in the end they are grown beings, independently minded and perfectly able to make choices for themselves. They're well aware that the outdoors is a big place with many dangers; if they choose to go out there anyway, I think they have every right to do so.