Looking for Skeptics

[Biscuit]

Upthread it was asked whether it's possible to get audio artefacts from complete silence, just through encoding. Using 2 different audio programs I've done just that, starting by generating silence, exporting it, normalising it, exporting it, normalising it again, and exporting it again.

Ahhh thanks for that.

Where are these recordings from?

See Squeegee's response above. Just like you Squeegee was able to put artifacts onto a silent recording. Unlike you this is not being attributed to spirits. ETA: This means zero progress has been made over 47 pages of this thread.


On a side note I am upset by what alderbank says happened regarding the phone call. That is simply unacceptable behavior. I hope the two of you can resolve this.

 

[asydhouse]

If your only contact with flaccon had been through the forum, then I would agree. However, once you exchange contact details, and go round to someone's house, I'm afraid I don't think you can claim that it is a forum matter, nor covered by the MA.

ETA: Which is not to say that what you've described is acceptable behaviour, of course.

He went round to flaccon on behalf of everyone taking part in this thread. I think it's unfair to tell him he's on his own in this. It very definitely is a forum matter, in my opinion.

Also, Alderbank said he had not given his phone number to flaccon. So whoever made the call was stepping beyond the bounds of agreed level of contact.

 

[Alderbank]

Alderbank,
If you're not going to reveal the content and tone of the message, then it's really not fair to throw out an accusation like that, couched in mysterious content and all..... Either state what the message was and let people judge for themselves whether it should be or would be taken as offensive, or remove the discussion to PM or private communication.
I have no reason to disbelieve you. I just don't think this is a very even-handed approach.

Also, did you think that maybe it wasn't flaccon, but the spirits have moved from the computer cables to the phone lines? (That's what I'd claim if I was working her side of the street on this.)

A lot of healthy scepticism in these replies.


My Dear Daughter (DD) called me this morning to ask if I knew (floccan's real name) who had called our home and made an offensive call. DD was angry rather than traumatised. I don't yet know what was said but I'm sure I will get full details at dinner tonight. I am unlikely to get an accurate transcript so I won't share any of it here.

You can say what you like to me personally in the open forum and I will reply in the same way where others can read and judge. I don't expect members of this forum to communicate privately with me or my family disrespectfully and I'm surprised that anyone finds that acceptable.

I don't want any more private correspondence with floccan and yes I do think she should say sorry. I also do not want to derail this thread any further.

 

[bluesjnr]

He went round to flaccon on behalf of everyone taking part in this thread. I think it's unfair to tell him he's on his own in this. It very definitely is a forum matter, in my opinion.

Also, Alderbank said he had not given his phone number to flaccon. So whoever made the call was stepping beyond the bounds of agreed level of contact.

As grateful as I was to Alderbank for advancing the claim to its inevitable conclusion, he wasn't acting for me. I saw him as willing to get involved for his own reasons. Participating in this thread does not place any obligation upon me other than posting within the MA.

He is on his own until he clarifies the situation.

Can you tell me what to agreed level of contact was and how do you know this?

 

[bluesjnr]

A lot of healthy scepticism in these replies.


My Dear Daughter (DD) called me this morning to ask if I knew (floccan's real name) who had called our home and made an offensive call. DD was angry rather than traumatised. I don't yet know what was said but I'm sure I will get full details at dinner tonight. I am unlikely to get an accurate transcript so I won't share any of it here.

You can say what you like to me personally in the open forum and I will reply in the same way where others can read and judge. I don't expect members of this forum to communicate privately with me or my family disrespectfully and I'm surprised that anyone finds that acceptable.

I don't want any more private correspondence with floccan and yes I do think she should say sorry. I also do not want to derail this thread any further.

You haven't ascertained it was floccan yet.

 

[Empress]

Frankly, I don't think it's a derail, Alderbank.

I agree that unless flaccon wants to say that it was not her, it was someone posing as her, that she owes you a heartfelt apology. Even if it wasn't her--it was a friend interfering on her behalf--if it were me I would apologize and make it known to the forum at large that such things were unacceptable to me and it would not occur again. Of course, that's just me, and flaccon may not see it the same.

At any rate, I've felt for a long time that there were deeper issues than pareidolia at work here, and this deepens my belief.

I'm also concerned that if this is occurring off-forum, it's going to start on-forum, and floccon is going to end up as a suicide-by-mod, which I would hate to see happen.

 

[asydhouse]

As grateful as I was to Alderbank for advancing the claim to its inevitable conclusion, he wasn't acting for me. I saw him as willing to get involved for his own reasons. Participating in this thread does not place any obligation upon me other than posting within the MA.

He is on his own until he clarifies the situation.

Can you tell me what to agreed level of contact was and how do you know this?

I would say that Alderbank, who appears to be a new member, would never have done what he did without the encouragement of people in this thread. I agree that you personally are not responsible, but as a participating member in this thread I do take a share of the responsibility for Alderbank's well-being, and I imagine many others feel the same.

As to the level of contact agreed upon, the fact that Alderbank has said he did not give his phone number to flaccon is an indication that he did not want her to phone him... so I conclude that whoever phoned him was transgressing.

If I'm wrong about that, it's a simple matter for Alderbank to correct my interpretation of the clues.


PS I agree with Empress that this is not a derail. This is the current state of play of the issue we have been working on with flaccon.... which I also agree is not simply about the pareidolia.

 

[Alderbank]

As to the level of contact agreed upon, the fact that Alderbank has said he did not give his phone number to flaccon is an indication that he did not want her to phone him... so I conclude that whoever phoned him was transgressing.

If I'm wrong about that, it's a simple matter for Alderbank to correct my interpretation of the clues.

I've thought about it. flaccon PM'd me and asked me to phone her before visiting which I did. I don't withold my number. In the UK it is possible to trace the call.

I don't mind anyone calling me. What I don't like is offensive calls made to my family

 

[bluesjnr]

If I'm wrong about that, it's a simple matter for Alderbank to correct my interpretation of the clues.

Looks like you were wrong. Just shows what can happen when you jump to conclusions.

 

[SusanB-M1]

Nope, I am with Alderbank on this one. I do expect an apology if the allegations prove out. Although Alderbank be the direct victim of the offense, many of us have been part of this trust-building exercise, and it appears to have been betrayed. We all have a stake.

Agree.

 

[asydhouse]

Looks like you were wrong. Just shows what can happen when you jump to conclusions.

Fair enough. May we all continue to learn this lesson (especially if the jumps are larger than the tiny one I made! )

 

[wardenclyffe]

This new development is obviously bad. I also feel a sense of responsibility for encouraging the face to face meeting. I'm glad Alderbank took his nephew with him to that meeting.

My only hope is that this is some misinterpretation. We all know how unclear flaccon's messages can sometimes be here in the forum. I can only imagine what it would be like to be on the receiving end of an unexpected phone call from her when I did not know her, perhaps did not know that my father knew her, and did not understand what she was talking about. The idea that the call consisted of anything other than, "This is flaccon, please tell Alderbank that I called and please have him call me back" is reason for concern though.

There's no way to get a verbatim transcript, so we can't know for sure. At the same time, Alderbank has shown no tendency to over-dramatize.

In any case, I think flaccon's got some explaining to do.

Ward

 

[trustbutverify]

I see it too! Now it's been documented!

Thank you. The evidence is mounting.

 

[trustbutverify]

Yes. It's a bit misleading to talk about the voices saying things one wants to hear. Better to say they say things one expects to hear.

I'd say anything "clear" enough to be words is something she wants to hear, no matter what the "message" is.

 

[asydhouse]

Thank you. The evidence is mounting.

Is it still there? (I see the face too... it's a really good one... )

 

[trustbutverify]

Do this two hundred more times and you become the first person to discover Homeopathic Voice Generation[tm].

 

[tsig]

[qimg]http://www.thelivingmoon.com/43ancients/04images/Earth/Eyes/Face_005.jpg[/qimg]

I believe that spirits may be communicating with us through cloud formations. As a test of my claim, I'd like to see how many people can independently see a face in this picture. If enough viewers can confirm it, there will be too many folks involved to attribute the phenomena to mere pareidolia.

It's THEM!!!!

 

[SezMe]

I think that nothing yet suggests that flaccon will ever seriously consider non-supernatural explanations of her experiences.

I think that until she does she will never agree to an objective test that excludes pareidolia as the explanation of the perceived voices, and that as a result we are not going to be able to help her any further.

I think we should all stop posting on this thread until flaccon can bring herself to acknowledge the possibility that the spirits aren't real, and commits to such a test in order to find out.

My thoughts exactly. I'm going to make one more post, then do my best to drop into lurker mode.

 

[HighRiser]

Alderbank, I appreciate the effort you've put in, and I'm sorry it seems to have gone sour IRL.

 

[SezMe]

If posters here feel I should shut up, I can do that.

I don't think anyone here wants you to shut up. But I will tell you what we (I hope most agree with this post) want very specifically. We want you to post something very close to the following:

I (flaccon):

1. Acknowledge that the sounds that I am hearing may not be the voices of spirits. <Note, you don't have to say anything about the actual existence of spirits themselves.>
2. Acknowledge that pareidolia is a possible explanation for the audio phenomenon I have been experiencing.
3. Will make a specific, testable claim regarding the phenomenon I have discussed in this thread.
4. Will work with JREFers to develop a test protocol for that claim that is agreeable to both myself and JREFers.
5. Will proceed with that testing protocol without any modifications, exceptions or deviations.

I (flaccon) will NOT:

1. Make any changes to the claim I made in #3.
2. Post anything that is not directly and explicitly related to the development and implementation of the test developed in #4.
3. Involve any people in any way that are not explicitly denoted in the test developed in #4.
4. Post anything that is not directly and explicitly related to the development and implementation of the test developed in #4.
5. Introduce any unnecessary delays, diversion or derails from the establishment and conduct of the agreed upon test.
6. Post anything that is not directly and explicitly related to the development and implementation of the test developed in #4.

If you can post something like that, flaccon, then there is a basis for a continuation of this thread. If not, speaking quite personally, I find that this has all gotten quite boring and not worth pursuing or even reading.