Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[DrTesla]

Why do you insist on focusing on velocity when it's the momentum that matters. Are trying to say that it is impossible to throw the rock? We're talking about shattering glass, not piercing a the armor of a tank.

MDDVS,

thanks for your query.

Momentum is a function of velocity. That is to say, if the impact velocity is increased, then so is the impact momentum.

Nobody is saying the rock cannot be thrown. We are only considering if by the time the rock reaches the window if it moving at such a speed, and momentum, to apply the force to break the window.

Glass can withstand some level of shear force being applied to it. I do not know the thickness of the glass but if a heavier rock is barely moving by the time it reaches the glass then we cannot just assume the glass would be shattered.

I've already detailed that we must assume that the theoretical intruder was able to throw the 10 lb rockl upwards of 100 mph from from the raised parking lot such that it the rock moved from point a to point b in a direct line and crashed through the window.
Can a man throw a 10 lb rock upwards of 100 mph so that it still moving at a fast clip when it impacts the window glass at some 8 to 10 feet away?

I do not know the answer to this question but I suspect the defense will need to conduct some tests. I would suggest having the tall guy throw the ball, the tall guy being the one who also conducted the experiment to see if he could climb and up and through the window. I have little doubt that he is capable of throwing a 10 lb rock upwards of 100 mph, and if he can do this, he should have success in breaking the window, and then we must conclude that the theoretical intruder did break in, despite no evidence he did, and set Knox and Raffe free.

 

[Grinder]

The inner shutters were apparently closed but not latched. The outer shutters would be useful to provide privacy while letting in light or air if the inner shutters or the windows themself were open.

So no reason to close them while away.

 

[Bill Williams]

I think you meant "you're" but anyway I've spoken out on this many a time. I would like to see you and yours speak out on the name calling of Amanda and any and all people that support her side.

Agreed. Briars has never once pointed out the venom aimed elsewhere. As much as I agree with Briars about the inappropriateness of name calling the Kerchers, I would respectfully suggest that Briars' own reputation would improve if he/she extended the "moral imperative" to all.

 

[RandyN]

You are fine with the attack on the Kerchers , It's obscene to suggest they are only in it for the money. Its not acceptable no matter whether you support Amanda or not. You have lost your moral compass and sunk with the other three men? in a tub.

Yes Im fine with the "attack" as well. The Kerchers don't want to learn anything about the truth of what happened to their daughter. They are willing participants in effort to convict and jail completely innocent persons.

I have the greatest sympathy and sadness for their loss. But they have participated and been foils of Maresca and Mignini. Especially John earlier and now certainly Stephanie.

"We wont read Knox's book". ??? I would want to read everything I could if I was still puzzled about the circumstances of my daughter or sisters murder.

Lets face it...you really have to be an idiot to remain doubtful about what happened to Meredith. Enough time has passed so as give all plenty of time to contemplate the events and evidence.

They may still think RS and AK are guilty...but they need to look closer at the case, the evidence, the logic, the motivation, the prior histories.
And they need to get off the money wagon. Civil suits should follow the criminal trial. This is one more flaw in Italian "justice".

 

[Bill Williams]

MDDVS,

thanks for your query.

Momentum is a function of velocity. That is to say, if the impact velocity is increased, then so is the impact momentum.

Nobody is saying the rock cannot be thrown. We are only considering if by the time the rock reaches the window if it moving at such a speed, and momentum, to apply the force to break the window.

Glass can withstand some level of shear force being applied to it. I do not know the thickness of the glass but if a heavier rock is barely moving by the time it reaches the glass then we cannot just assume the glass would be shattered.

I've already detailed that we must assume that the theoretical intruder was able to throw the 10 lb rockl upwards of 100 mph from from the raised parking lot such that it the rock moved from point a to point b in a direct line and crashed through the window.
Can a man throw a 10 lb rock upwards of 100 mph so that it still moving at a fast clip when it impacts the window glass at some 8 to 10 feet away?

I do not know the answer to this question but I suspect the defense will need to conduct some tests. I would suggest having the tall guy throw the ball, the tall guy being the one who also conducted the experiment to see if he could climb and up and through the window. I have little doubt that he is capable of throwing a 10 lb rock upwards of 100 mph, and if he can do this, he should have success in breaking the window, and then we must conclude that the theoretical intruder did break in, despite no evidence he did, and set Knox and Raffe free.

I think you should have stayed with, "I do not know the answer to this question." You truly think it needs to go 100 mph or are you just going for laughs on this one?

What kind of engineer are you?

 

[RandyN]

What evidence do you have True Justice lied about Nina Burleigh.... it's hard to believe they lied about her getting birthdates of the accused wrong in her book and that would easy for you to confirm as false if it is false.

i'm not True Justice's PR rep here, if you don't like their website there is no reason to tell me about it. I think everybody understands that I'm bit of a lone wolf with no connections to any of the guilters.

LOL...you are one of three persons...The Machine (Harry Rag), Kermit, or Pervert Quennell himself. You style matches Harry Rag. Quennell is even less balanced in his arguments, and Kermit...he cant go a day or make a post without a powerpoint so I am going with The machine (harry rag).

 

[Grinder]

I think you should have stayed with, "I do not know the answer to this question." You truly think it needs to go 100 mph or are you just going for laughs on this one?

A half court basketball shot by those calculations would need to thrown at about 200 mph.

Perhaps he hasn't factored in the arc of the toss.

 

[Bill Williams]

A half court basketball shot by those calculations would need to thrown at about 200 mph.

Perhaps he hasn't factored in the arc of the toss.

At 200 mph there'd not be much of an arc! (Gad, is this what it takes for you and me to get along?)

 

[yimyammer]

I think you should have stayed with, "I do not know the answer to this question." You truly think it needs to go 100 mph or are you just going for laughs on this one?

What kind of engineer are you?

Ha, I'd bet a good chunk of money that if a 10# rock merely made it to the point where it hit the glass, it would easily break it. Single pain glass is pretty damn easy to break, I can't believe this is even being debated

 

[DrTesla]

LOL...you are one of three persons...The Machine (Harry Rag), Kermit, or Pervert Quennell himself. You style matches Harry Rag. Quennell is even less balanced in his arguments, and Kermit...he cant go a day or make a post without a powerpoint so I am going with The machine (harry rag).

I cannot reveal my true identity. You should view me as similar to the Bat Man, without the gay cape and costume.

Where there is injustice not yet punished, I am there.

I was reflecting on why Amanda Knox tickles my funny bone so much. I think it is because she reminds me of Sandra Fluke, Obama's citizen spokeswoman, except in a murder trial context rather than a political context. Both of them seem to be sex addicts. Their world seems to revolve around GETTING IT ON, even if they can't even afford the inexpensive birth control as Fluke herself testified to a Congressional committee..

Both of them are exposed as being REAL dumb when you examine their testimonies and other statements. So dumb they are funny.

The only difference is Fluke wants other Georgetown law students, or taxpayers, to pay for her sex while Knox's minor purpose in commiting the murder was to steal 300 dollars to pay for much needed birth control.

Knox actually got the idea of butchering her roommate for cash from her favorite book Crime and Punishment in which the male "hero" butchers some old lady for her cash although he uses an axe rather than a knife. (Then the old lady's mentally disabled half sister stumbles into the room and he had to butcher her to, which kind of illustrates the folly of murder because it rarely goes according to plan, as Knox, Raffe and Rudy will tell you).

We have to give some credit to Fluke here for not butchering one of her roommates for the sex cash.

 

[RandyN]

This is false.
snip

What happened next was the consequence of the very strange things committed by other perpetrators, in relation to the Narducci investigation. A number of people committed other crimes related to the Narducci death, at a time when this was believed to be a rather trivial case of suspicious acidental death.

Mignini put together two different Perugian cases he previously considered unconnected, as he realized they were actually linked, investigated them more thoroughly; and he was provided further information about a connection between Narducci and the MoF case - and its conspiracy scenario - by the Florence GiDeS police dept, at the time headed by Giuttari. .
The Narducci file linking him to the MoF was opened in Florence many years before Mignini dealt with it. Mignini didn't know about this Florentine investigation file when he first happened to know about the Narducci death.


Well lookie here...who is back defending the criminal abuser of office and power Mignini.

Isnt it true that all the "other crimes" committed by others as Mignini claimed have all been found innocent? And it took the judge a year and a thousand pages to motivate their innocence?

I keep forgetting..remind me is Guittari the co-defendant of Mignini or the victim of Mignini?

At what point did Mignini file charges against Mario Spezi claiming that he was the MOF? Amazing all this abuse of power goes unpunished. Your judiciary is run by criminals.

 

[PhantomWolf]

MDDVS,

thanks for your query.

Momentum is a function of velocity. That is to say, if the impact velocity is increased, then so is the impact momentum.

I'm going to repond to this one rather then the other because you make the same mistakes.

While momentum is a function of velocity, it is force and the time applied that determines both.

F=ma and v_f=v_i + a.t

We can rearrange F=ma to be a=F/m and since of initial velocity is zero we can rewrite that as v=at

so substituting, we get v= Ft/m

Let's assume that our thrower will use the same force for both throws (not actually true because experimentally we can show that the thrower actually will apply more force to the larger rock, but it keeps it simple) then also assuming that each throw is of the same time length (again not true but we'll cover that in a second) then velocity is proportional to mass, if we double the mass the velocity is halved, and momentum remains the same.

However... Because with a larger mass we have a lower acceleration, it takes longer for the larger rock to reach the point of letting go, thus t is greater, meaning we are applying our force for longer and thus obviously velocity is not actually halved so our momentum is increased along with the mass.

Thus a larger rock will have a greater momentum.

Nobody is saying the rock cannot be thrown. We are only considering if by the time the rock reaches the window if it moving at such a speed, and momentum, to apply the force to break the window.

Glass can withstand some level of shear force being applied to it. I do not know the thickness of the glass but if a heavier rock is barely moving by the time it reaches the glass then we cannot just assume the glass would be shattered.

According to Newton's laws of momention, an object in motion will remain in motion with a constant velocity unless another force is applied to it. Once the rock leaves the throwers hand only two forces apply, gravity and air resistance. Since gravity is in the wrong plane and air resistance is velocity based, it will not stop a rock on it's own, so what exactly would cause the rock to be "barely moving by the time it reaches the glass"?

I've already detailed that we must assume that the theoretical intruder was able to throw the 10 lb rockl upwards of 100 mph from from the raised parking lot such that it the rock moved from point a to point b in a direct line and crashed through the window.

An assumption you can't back up. In fact a throw of just 5m a second, or 18km/h would easily suffice for such a shot and would be easy enough. This would require a force of 25N, easy enough for a athletic young adult. Of course it would require lobbing the rock in an parabolic targetory, but this is a natural throw anyway, especially for a basketball player

Can a man throw a 10 lb rock upwards of 100 mph so that it still moving at a fast clip when it impacts the window glass at some 8 to 10 feet away?

It doesn't need to be at 100mph, you are pulling numbers out of your rectum.

Seriously, as a Engineer your Physics is seriously lacking.

 

[js202]

I cannot reveal my true identity. You should view me as similar to the Bat Man, without the gay cape and costume.

Where there is injustice not yet punished, I am there.

I was reflecting on why Amanda Knox tickles my funny bone so much. I think it is because she reminds me of Sandra Fluke, except in a murder trial context rather than a political context. Both of them seem to be sex addicts. Their world seems to revolve around GETTING IT ON, even if they can't even afford the inexpensive birth control as Fluke herself testified to a Congressional committee..

The only difference is Fluke wants other Georgetown law students, or taxpayers, to pay for her sex while Knox's minor purpose in commiting the murder was get the 300 dollars to pay for much needed birth control.

Scratch all this deflection. Let's get back to the 100 mile per hour rock toss
nonsense. Do you realize you've been making the equivalent of fart noises at accredited scientists in this thread - actual PhDs, most of whom are, by necessity, out of high school, btw - whilst elucidating such specious nonsense?

You have officially defamed your own "argumentation". Flame out, and welcome to ignore.

 

[Matthew Best]

I've already detailed that we must assume that the theoretical intruder was able to throw the 10 lb rockl upwards of 100 mph from from the raised parking lot such that it the rock moved from point a to point b in a direct line and crashed through the window.
Can a man throw a 10 lb rock upwards of 100 mph so that it still moving at a fast clip when it impacts the window glass at some 8 to 10 feet away?

And there we have it.

There is now no reason to take anything you say seriously (if indeed there ever was). Your cockamamie arguments are failing miserably, and you've repeatedly demonstrated that you are posting more in an attempt to wind people up instead of engaging in serious discussion. Unfortunately that's not against the rules here so all anyone can do is put you on ignore.

 

[GWCarver]

This is false.
snip

What happened next was the consequence of the very strange things committed by other perpetrators, in relation to the Narducci investigation. A number of people committed other crimes related to the Narducci death, at a time when this was believed to be a rather trivial case of suspicious acidental death.

Mignini put together two different Perugian cases he previously considered unconnected, as he realized they were actually linked, investigated them more thoroughly; and he was provided further information about a connection between Narducci and the MoF case - and its conspiracy scenario - by the Florence GiDeS police dept, at the time headed by Giuttari. .
The Narducci file linking him to the MoF was opened in Florence many years before Mignini dealt with it. Mignini didn't know about this Florentine investigation file when he first happened to know about the Narducci death.


Well lookie here...who is back back defending the criminal abuser of office and power Mignini.

Isnt it true that all the "other crimes" committed by others as Mignini claimed have all been found innocent? And it took the judge a year and a thousand pages to motivate their innocence?

I keep forgetting..remind me is Guittari the co-defendant of Mignini or the victim of Mignini?

At what point did Mignini file charges against Mario Spezi claiming that he was the MOF? Amazing all this abuse of power goes unpunished. Your judiciary is run by criminals.

I'm thinking that Amanda can use Mignini's Narducci fiasco, the resulting Supreme Court decision against him, and the Follain, Barbie, etc. satanic oriented quotes from early in her case to prove her assertion he is indeed a madman and therefore his charges of slander are bogus. (OK, that is assuming the truth is an adequate defense against slander in Perugia.) The Supreme Court said Narducci committed suicide - there was no murder - and that means the entire, convoluted conspiracy existed only in Mignini's head.

 

[Bill Williams]

Ha, I'd bet a good chunk of money that if a 10# rock merely made it to the point where it hit the glass, it would easily break it. Single pain glass is pretty damn easy to break, I can't believe this is even being debated

Fortunately Machiavelli is back, so that we can resume garden variety lunacy.

Do you want to tell the folks here about the Masonic conspiracy behind all this, Machiavelli, or should I? Was this conspiracy travelling at 100 mph (160 k/h)?

 

[RandyN]

this is a distintinction without a differennce as momentum = p = mv (m = mass, v = velocity). In other words, if velocity increases, momentum increases.

so obviously if the impact velocity is greater, the momentum is greater. If you consider the equation one immediately understands that a lighter rock with mass m can achieve a greater momentum p because by default a human being can impart a greater initial velocity v on the rock. even a 1 lb increase to mass m is going to reduce the velocity v that the theoretical intruder could impart on the rock thus it making it less likely he is successful in shattering the glass which is, of course, his ultimate objective. Given man as finite level of strength, and given our understanding that man can throw a lighter rock at a higher velocity than a heavier rock using the same amount of energy, one must assume the intruder would use a lighter rock if his goal was to be successful on the first or least second attempt from some distance away.

The only constraint that could have lead to the theoretical intruder to have used the 10 lb rock is that it was the only one found in the yard.

Yet, one must question if a 10 lb rock is just sitting around in the yard...that seems like a pretty big rock to be found in a yard and seems like the owner of the house would have removed it. One begins to wonder if the theoretical intruder actually had to scour the neighborhood for a rock of this size.
And it seems like if such a large rock was sitting around in the yard, there would be some smaller lighter rocks also available. Does anybody know is this yard also functions as a rock quarry?

This is interesting....so the mass of the 10 lb rock may not pass thru the single strength glass and then hit the closed but unlatched inner shutter which then is forced open and due the position of the strike near the inner shutter hinge it caused the 10 lb rock to deflect to the right and fall into the bag and end up under the chair? But a smaller rock tossed faster would break the glass and force open the inner shutter better...is that your position?

 

[RandyN]

I'm thinking that Amanda can use Mignini's Narducci fiasco, the resulting Supreme Court decision against him, and the Follain, Barbie, etc. satanic oriented quotes from early in her case to prove her assertion he is indeed a madman and therefore his charges of slander are bogus. (OK, that is assuming the truth is an adequate defense against slander in Perugia.) The Supreme Court said Narducci committed suicide - there was no murder - and that means the entire, convoluted conspiracy existed only in Mignini's head.

Yes I cant wait to hear Machiavelli's response to your question about the SC ruling on this matter. Every guilter has gotten this wrong so far but we have yet to hear from Yummi/Mach.

Certainly a case can be made that Mignini is nuts...crazy as a loon. Why I hear he is now filing charges to try and stop RS and AK books from being something....I hear he filed charges against a TV show too just for reviewing Amandas book. These sub-cases filed by Mignini are like cats...up to three is possibly normal...more than that makes you a nut...a certified loon. Doing so at the expense of the country is a corrupt action and harassment of citizens who must spend fortunes to leave the grips of Migninis mad mad world..

Still think Zero would have been perfect to play the criminal abuser of office and power.

 

[anglolawyer]

Ok Im pretty sure Anglo stole this link from me. And no Kospmo did not translate because I recall stealing it from a guilter site...not sure which one now...dot nut I think.

Randy! How can you say such a thing?

I think this version was translated by roteoctober with proof-reading assistance from your humble servant.

 

[DrTesla]

Hang on, did you just suggest that gravity applies a greater force on a larger object than it does a smaller one? I am sure that another Italian, one by the name of Galileo Galilei, debunked that nugget of bovine excretement nearly 500 years ago!

PhantomWolf

My apologies, I overlooked your post above from last night because a lot of people were posting at once about the rock throw analysis and other stuff.

It's been awhile since I was in college, some 13 years ago so I may be hazy on some of the principles of physics. My memory is also starting to fail me as I am now 35 years old and rapidly aging, a shadow of my former self.

It is my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong, that the gravitational force F on the rock would be equal to it's mass x acceleration of gravity 32.174 049 ft/s2 . I will denote this as F =mg. This force is also known as it's weight. It is the main force acting on our rock after the theoretical intruder has thrown it.

Let's examine this equation together because it can tell us some things that may be useful. Here is the equation again: F = m x g.

Thus, if the mass m is greater, the force (or weight) must be greater because the weight is a function of mass.

So to answer your question, unless I have analyzed this wrong, which is always possible, especially when I'm distracted by thoughts of having sex with Amanda Knox, we must conclude that indeed there is a greater force on a larger rock than a smaller rock due to gravity. We can also double check this by just observing that 10 is greater than any number below 10, and thus if the large rock weighs 10 lbs, and another rock weighs less than 10 lbs, then the 10 lb rock has a greater gravitational force on it than a rock that weigh less than 10 lbs, because weight refers to the gravitational force on the rock.

Does that make sense? I may be confusing you more than helping.