Continuation Part 5: Discussion of the Amanda Knox/Raffaele Sollecito case

[Bill Williams]

You are fine with the attack on the Kerchers , It's obscene to suggest they are only in it for the money. Its not acceptable no matter whether you support Amanda or not. You have lost your moral compass and sunk with the other three men? in a tub.

Briars, I'm on your side on this one. The trouble is, my belief is also that you use it to claim moral superiority, as well as to justify vilifying to other innocents.

 

[Bill Williams]

Baloney; I have made myself clear on this question many times: the Kercher family is benighted by Maresca. And the minister has been more emphatic on this point than I have. They get a pass from me, but their arguments (when they chose to make them public) do not. And there is no such thing as silent approval, as far as I am concerned.

There is also no need to go after the Kerchers - aside from the fact that it is unseemly in the first place so to do. All their information amounts to hearsay anyway. I can read the first part of John's book with a tear in my eye, but see the second part as simply bad information about a wrongful prosecution.

There is no question, though, that the primary victim here is Meredith Kercher, and by extension what her family has had to go through these years.

 

[RandyN]

Bingo. You've got it exactly. They might have gotten into that initial position because she heard him in the corridor, stepped out to investigate, and he chased her back into her room, grabbed her, and pushed her up against the wall. Or he might have just burst into the room.

Hendry thinks the stain above the bed was made with bloody fabric, maybe produced when he lofted the quilt to spread it out over her body, or by the edge of a towel brushing against the wall when he wiped his hands prior to leaving it at the foot of the bed.

This has been the mystery spot unexplained by Hendry in his first exam. I don't think it came from a towel...the wall that this spot is on is separated by the bed. One would have to lean over the bed in order to make this mark. It may have come from the duvet I suppose. Or Guede had Meredith pinned to the mattress perhaps. Did she have any bleeding injuries on the back of her head? I seem to recall clumps of hair on the floor. I think this indicates Guede controlled her with a firm grasp on her rather long hair.

I wish that Hendry would revisit this spot but I suppose there is no way to confirm anything.

 

[DrTesla]

The highlighted part is what I look for when I am lurking on a site and trying to get up to speed with what's what, and who's who.

I particularly liked the citation from True Justice about Nina Burleigh to prove she's a liar. Like True Justice is an impartial arbiter of truth.... just go there and read a while.

What evidence do you have True Justice lied about Nina Burleigh.... it's hard to believe they lied about her getting birthdates of the accused wrong in her book and that would easy for you to confirm as false if it is false.

i'm not True Justice's PR rep here, if you don't like their website there is no reason to tell me about it. I think everybody understands that I'm bit of a lone wolf with no connections to any of the guilters.

 

[Kaosium]

You are fine with the attack on the Kerchers , It's obscene to suggest they are only in it for the money. Its not acceptable no matter whether you support Amanda or not. You have lost your moral compass and sunk with the other three men? in a tub.

Vengeance and the weregild are barbaric customs in my view, and I criticize them as I see fit, though I blame Mignini (foremost) and Maresca for destroying justice in pursuit of delusion and profit. Succoring those delusions does nothing but harm.

There's no nobility in a lynch mob.

 

[Bill Williams]

What evidence do you have True Justice lied about Nina Burleigh.... it's hard to believe they lied about her getting birthdates of the accused wrong in her book and that would easy for you to confirm as false if it is false.

i'm not True Justice's PR rep here, if you don't like their website there is no reason to tell me about it. I think everybody understands that I'm bit of a lone wolf with no connections to any of the guilters.

I'm not sure why you ask for evidence. You deny it when it is presented to you. But I agree with your last sentiment... You claimed to have been banned by PMF. That's quite the trick!

 

[DrTesla]

You are turning Occam's Razor on its head. You are doing far too much work to argue against the simplest explanation.

As was his MO as a known burglar, Rudy Guede threw an appropriately sized rock through a window from an eminently manageable vantage under the cover of night. Then he leapt up through the window, and the tragic events of that night were set in motion.

it's not the size of the rock, it's the impact velocity of the rock as it hits the window and a lighter rock would be easier to impart the required velocity on the rock such that it would shatter the glass upon impact.

If you could get the job done with a lighter rock why use the 10 lb rock that is going to require more effort for you to hoist it either 8-10 feet directly horizontal to hit the window or from the yard up 10-13 feet. you'd think Rudy would at least tried a lighter rock first.

rudy should be in the NBA if he scaled up there not once but twice. he must be an athletic freak. given no traces of him on the exterior of the cottage or the window, one cannot rule out that he simply jumped up there so you know he could be dunking the ball all over Lebron James if he was in the NBA.

 

[RandyN]

Thanks for the link. I only had time to quickly scan it but noticed this jem:

​

I have to assume that this Stefanoni person is actually blind for not seeing that what she saw as a clean cut line on the end of the bra band was actually outside of the stitch line visible in the photographs.

Ok Im pretty sure Anglo stole this link from me. And no Kospmo did not translate because I recall stealing it from a guilter site...not sure which one now...dot nut I think.

 

[MDDVS]

it's not the size of the rock, it's the impact velocity of the rock as it hits the window and a lighter rock would be easier to impart the required velocity on the rock such that it would shatter the glass upon impact.

rudy should be in the NBA if he scaled up there not once but twice. he must be an athletic freak. given no traces of him on the exterior of the cottage or the window, one cannot rule out that he simply jumped up there so you know he could be dunking the ball all over Lebron James if he was in the NBA.

This is quite funny. You obviously lied when you said you're a mechanical engineer. So only the velocity matters? lol

 

[DrTesla]

I'm not sure why you ask for evidence. You deny it when it is presented to you. But I agree with your last sentiment... You claimed to have been banned by PMF. That's quite the trick!

LOL you really think I'm going to lie about that, so I can get in good with you guys? You guys going to hate me b/c I think Knox is guilty regardless if I'm of PMF or not.

look at the liberal Daily Kos moderater's comments on there, she is always bringing up Glenn Beck so clearly she has a problem with conservatives and small government. doesn't seem any like rational connection b/t Glenn Beck and Amanda Knox so why is she talking about him all the time.

I actually forgot about this but they were beating up on your hero, Steve Moore, and they pointed out that he had said something about having armed guards in schools was a good idea and this in their mind was just more evidence Moore is stupid. I just pointed out that Moore was right about that and about 5 minutes later the liberal babe had banned me. She pretends that it is just b/c she doesn't want politics discussed on her website but she herself talks politics and the liberals on there ALWAYS drag in their liberal politics but no way jose is a conservative going to get away with defending the 2nd admendment or even suggesting that armed guards in schools is a decent idea, and woah nelly, did this liberal babe freak out when I pointed out that Obama's kids go to a school that has armed guards.

 

[Briars]

Briars, I'm on your side on this one. The trouble is, my belief is also that you use it to claim moral superiority, as well as to justify vilifying to other innocents.

The case against the defendants should have nothing to do with obscenities against the Kerchers sorry. It gives me no pleasure to have to step and defend them. What is the matter with you Bill and why aren't you speaking up so I don't have to? That would be preferable by all concerned.

 

[Bill Williams]

it's not the size of the rock, it's the impact velocity of the rock as it hits the window and a lighter rock would be easier to impart the required velocity on the rock such that it would shatter the glass upon impact.

rudy should be in the NBA if he scaled up there not once but twice. he must be an athletic freak. given no traces of him on the exterior of the cottage or the window, one cannot rule out that he simply jumped up there so you know he could be dunking the ball all over Lebron James if he was in the NBA.

This is quite funny. You obviously lied when you said you're a mechanical engineer. So only the velocity matters? lol

Darn.... now I'm not sure why I reposted this... except to embarrass the mechanical engineer one more time. Kudos to MDDVS.... I'm not sure that this fellow took junior year physics.

 

[Bill Williams]

The case against the defendants should have nothing to do with obscenities against the Kerchers sorry. It gives me no pleasure to have to step and defend them. What is the matter with you Bill and why aren't you speaking up so I don't have to? That would be preferable by all concerned.

What is this? Chopped liver? Briars, this is why it is hard to take YOU seriously. When I do it, so say I haven't. Sheesh. What's the matter with you?

 

[Dan O.]

It is likely the shutters were open as Filomena was in such a rush to leave that she had Raf and Amanda wrap the gift. Why would one close the shutters on a window that was too high for entry?

The inner shutters were apparently closed but not latched. The outer shutters would be useful to provide privacy while letting in light or air if the inner shutters or the windows themself were open.

 

[Machiavelli]

(...)
In any case, this is the origin of the satanic theory reported by various UK outlets. Mignini's defenders were quick to point out that it is not precisely satanic. Fair enough. It is still a crackpot fantasy with no basis in fact.

There is no doubt Mignini (along with other investigators) proposed a satanic cult conspiracy to explain the Monster of Florence killings. FBI experts and others who have looked at these cases believe they were the work of a necrophiliac who cut away the genitals of his female victims and removed them from the crime scene so he could use them for his fetish activity. This is a rare type of criminal behavior, but one with well-known precedents.

Mignini believed the murders were commissioned by a satanic cult, and he proposed a theory that has no precedents. He speculated that the membership of this cult, which has never been proven to exist, included some of the leading citizens of Florence. According to Mignini, they purchased the severed genitalia for use in their rituals. That is how Mignini ended up asking for more than 20 indictments following his investigation of the Narducci drowning, and it is why he tapped the phones of his colleagues in Florence. He thought Narducci was a cult member who was killed because he had become a security risk, and he thought investigators in Florence were covering up the conspiracy.

This is false.
The Monster of Florence case was solved by other prosecutor and other judges. The theories on the MoF case were put forward by others, not Mignini.
Three people were found guilty and their conviction was finalized in the ninties. All this took place in Florence, Mignini had nothing to do with it.

The Florentine judges also thought there was probably an even larger group of people somehow involved in the murders; they wrote so in their final reports. There were good reasons for them to suspect this, despite FBI investigators' theories and your beliefs.

It is worth to point out that the peculiar thing in the MoF case was not the murders themselves, but it was the amazing activities perpetrated by powerful people to mislead investigations.
The conspiracy theory on the MoF cases was fullyt built in Florence, and was believed to be quite unrelated to Satanism but instead related to some specific social groups (revolving around one medical facility located in a village near Florence).

Mignini happened to step across the Narducci case on Narducci's wife's demand to find out his death, when this was tought a trivial cold case - strange buisness and a suspicious "suicide" - but still totally unrelated to any theory. Even less a Satanic theory.

What happened next was the consequence of the very strange things committed by other perpetrators, in relation to the Narducci investigation. A number of people committed other crimes related to the Narducci death, at a time when this was believed to be a rather trivial case of suspicious acidental death.

At a certain moment it was the Florentine investigators who jumped into Mignini's investigation, they brought him evidence that the Narducci case was connected to something of a "bigger" thing and brought "their theory" connecting it to the MoF case.

Mignini put together two different Perugian cases he previously considered unconnected, as he realized they were actually linked, investigated them more thoroughly; and he was provided further information about a connection between Narducci and the MoF case - and its conspiracy scenario - by the Florence GiDeS police dept, at the time headed by Giuttari.

The theory information linking Narducci to the MoF case was basically a previous Florence and GiDeS investigation. Florentines were already on his tracks twenty years before when he was alive. Narducci had even escaped police capture as a suspect on the MoF crimes, and that was on the day prior to his death.
The Narducci file linking him to the MoF was opened in Florence many years before Mignini dealt with it. Mignini didn't know about this Florentine investigation file when he first happened to know about the Narducci death.

I want to add: the corpses swap in the Narducci case has been definitely proven. Not in the latest Narducci trial that was brought at the SC, but in another trial, where it was in fact found that the lake body was not Narducci. Moreover, there were also other proceedings related to the case which brought up further details.

 

[Kaosium]

The case against the defendants should have nothing to do with obscenities against the Kerchers sorry. It gives me no pleasure to have to step and defend them. What is the matter with you Bill and why aren't you speaking up so I don't have to? That would be preferable by all concerned.

The guy with Black Sabbath motif quelled by a minister? (didn't know that--careful if you venture out of this thread Bill!)

I don't think it works like that!

 

[GWCarver]

This is false.
The Monster of Florence case was solved by other prosecutor and other judges. The theories on the MoF case were put forward by others, not Mignini.
Three people were found guilty and their conviction was finalized in the ninties. All this took place in Florence, Mignini had nothing to do with it.

The Florentine judges also thought there was probably an even larger group of people somehow involved in the murders; they wrote so in their final reports. There were good reasons for them to suspect this, despite FBI investigators' theories and your beliefs.

It is worth to point out that the peculiar thing in the MoF case was not the murders themselves, but it was the amazing activities perpetrated by powerful people to mislead investigations.
The conspiracy theory on the MoF cases was fullyt built in Florence, and was believed to be quite unrelated to Satanism but instead related to some specific social groups (revolving around one medical facility located in a village near Florence).

Mignini happened to step across the Narducci case on Narducci's wife's demand to find out his death, when this was tought a trivial cold case - strange buisness and a suspicious "suicide" - but still totally unrelated to any theory. Even less a Satanic theory.

What happened next was the consequence of the very strange things committed by other perpetrators, in relation to the Narducci investigation. A number of people committed other crimes related to the Narducci death, at a time when this was believed to be a rather trivial case of suspicious acidental death.

At a certain moment it was the Florentine investigators who jumped into Mignini's investigation, they brought him evidence that the Narducci case was connected to something of a "bigger" thing and brought "their theory" connecting it to the MoF case.

Mignini put together two different Perugian cases he previously considered unconnected, as he realized they were actually linked, investigated them more thoroughly; and he was provided further information about a connection between Narducci and the MoF case - and its conspiracy scenario - by the Florence GiDeS police dept, at the time headed by Giuttari.

The theory information linking Narducci to the MoF case was basically a previous Florence and GiDeS investigation. Florentines were already on his tracks twenty years before when he was alive. Narducci had even escaped police capture as a suspect on the MoF crimes, and that was on the day prior to his death.
The Narducci file linking him to the MoF was opened in Florence many years before Mignini dealt with it. Mignini didn't know about this Florentine investigation file when he first happened to know about the Narducci death.

I want to add: the corpses swap in the Narducci case has been definitely proven. Not in the latest Narducci trial that was brought at the SC, but in another trial, where it was in fact found that the lake body was not Narducci. Moreover, there were also other proceedings related to the case which brought up further details.

Hey Machiavelli, as long as you are here, can you verify Mignini's case against all of those alleged Monster of Florence conspirators was rejected by the Italian Supreme Court back in March? That is what Mignini's Wikipedia entry says.

 

[Matthew Best]

talking about Ozars razor is your debate trick, you want to present yourself as some kind of legal mind by talking about a legal principle.

And this is the guy who thinks he is slicing and dicing others' arguments?

What a joke.

 

[Kaosium]

I want to add: the corpses swap in the Narducci case has been definitely proven. Not in the latest Narducci trial that was brought at the SC, but in another trial, where it was in fact found that the lake body was not Narducci. Moreover, there were also other proceedings related to the case which brought up further details.

Was this 'proven' the same way the 'staged' break-in and multiple attackers was in the Rudy Guede case? In other words he got a judge to write it in the motivations thus it becomes some kind of 'truth' in Italian law?

Welcome back Machiavelli.

 

[Kaosium]

it's not the size of the rock, it's the impact velocity of the rock as it hits the window and a lighter rock would be easier to impart the required velocity on the rock such that it would shatter the glass upon impact.

rudy should be in the NBA if he scaled up there not once but twice. he must be an athletic freak. given no traces of him on the exterior of the cottage or the window, one cannot rule out that he simply jumped up there so you know he could be dunking the ball all over Lebron James if he was in the NBA.

Oh. Come. On.

I used to 'work' amongst those who could scale that wall with a hundred pounds on their back. They'd take guys just like Rudy and yell at them all day for a few months and they could manage that wall with both hands tied behind their back.

Rudy got paid when he scaled a wall like that, that was his incentive--he practiced in his free time! I bet it didn't take him two minutes to get in from the time he started climbing, though he may have waited some to see if there was any response inside or nearby to the rock being thrown.