Biblical Flood? Fish, squid, and shrimp fossils in the mountains of Lebanon and Peru

[Slowvehicle]

Jesus wasn't a fairytale. He was a famous historical person if we are to believe Bart Ehrman who said Jesus certainly existed. And he was a famous historical person whose grave is empty and whose body has never been found.

DOC:

Do you think that the misleading statements in one thread become, somehow, less dishonest when you post them in another thread?

As I have pointed out to you, over and over, no matter what you quote from the dust jacket, the "jesus" that Ehrman says "certainly existed" was a fully human itinerant apocalyptic preacher. He was not the "messiah" (Ehrman has many scathing things to say about the "messianic prophecies", and how the "jesus" that "certainly existed" did not fulfill a single one of them--you really ought to read the whole book sometime...); he was not the "god-hero, wonder counselor, eternal saviour" kept on a keychain by televangelists and other proponents of corporate christianity.

Noah's body has never been found--does that make him 'god'? Jimmy Hoffa's body has never been found--does that make him 'god'? Amelia Earhart's body has never been found--does that make her 'god'?

None of which has any bearing on the questions I keep asking. Might you consider deigning to actually answer them?

When do you, personally, believe either one of the clearly contradictory creations stories in Genesis took place?

When do you,personally, believe Pangea was last a single continent? How long do you, personally, believe it has taken the continents to drift from Pangea to their current locations?

When do you, personally, believe that the land which was uplifted to become the Himalayas was last under water?

When do you, personally, believe that the global flood happened?

 

[Slowvehicle]

As much as I love (dare I say 'covet') that avatar, I can't bring myself to bet against what for you is the safest bet ever.

TY for your kind words...if you truly covet the avatar, it is yours, Cobber. I can unlimber one of my other slow vehicles...

 

[Craig B]

Jesus wasn't a fairytale. He was a famous historical person if we are to believe Bart Ehrman who said Jesus certainly existed. And he was a famous historical person whose grave is empty and whose body has never been found.

Whether he ever existed or not, it is crazy to describe somebody for whom no contemporary record or notice exists as a "famous historical person".

 

[RoboTimbo]

Jesus wasn't a fairytale. He was a famous historical person if we are to believe Bart Ehrman who said Jesus certainly existed. And he was a famous historical person whose grave is empty and whose body has never been found.

Not the fairy tale son of a god Jesus, just a mortal preacher, as you seem to agree with Bart Ehrman. No doubt there were quite a few of them to pick from.

 

[Tristan Chi]

Lo and behold:
There's lamb's wool under my naked feet
The wall is soft and warm, gives off some kind of heat
A salamander scurries into flames to be destroyed.
Imaginary creatures are trapped - in celluloid.

 

[Mudcat]

Good grief, people actually use IE?

 

[UnrepentantSinner]

I will wager the title to my tapir-pulled MesoAmerican chariot that we will not be seeing a substantive answer.

So that's what it is. I love it!

 

[Elizabeth I]

Jesus wasn't a fairytale. He was a famous historical person if we are to believe Bart Ehrman who said Jesus certainly existed. And he was a famous historical person whose grave is empty and whose body has never been found.

I really wish you'd stop it with the "empty grave" thing. There are empty graves all over the world - it doesn't mean the former inhabitants are gods.

Noah's body has never been found--does that make him 'god'? Jimmy Hoffa's body has never been found--does that make him 'god'? Amelia Earhart's body has never been found--does that make her 'god'?

What Slowvehicle said. And I would just add that many of the tombs of Egyptian kings and nobles are empty and the bodies have never been found.

 

[GeneMachine]

Fast food companies that use dinosaurs as their free toys HATE paleontologists. "This isn't a dinosaur, it's a mammal-like reptile! And this! It's not even that--it's a bloody pterosaur, a completely different line of archeosauria!!! And a MAMMOTH? SERIOUSLY?!!"

No, that wasn't me. Yes, that person was asked to leave.

Haha. Thanks to the Great Old Ones that I am just a biochemist, so I do not have to embarass myself in public. At least they are not handing out protein models...

That said, I am banned from watching any show involving lab work at home. My girlfriend got kinda tired of my rantings of "Oh, yeah. Nice work, you just ruined that microliter pipette.", "Damnit, BALANCE that centrifuge!!" and so on, when watching CSI or the like

 

[Mojo]

And I would just add that many of the tombs of Egyptian kings and nobles are empty and the bodies have never been found.

Yes, but that's different. We know the Egyptian kings were gods.

 

[GeneMachine]

Yes, but that's different. We know the Egyptian kings were gods.

Don't get Akhenaten started again, mate...

 

[Akhenaten]

You really do think that a quotation of the words of a character in the very fairytale...

Jesus . . .

Isn't the topic of the thread.

This is.

Your intimation that Pangea was one continent as recently as 6K years ago seems to indicate otherwise.

Suppose you lay out a chronology:

In your opinion, when did 'god' create the world?

In your opinion, when was Pangea last a single continent?

In your opinion, when did the "global flood" happen?

In your opinion, when did the orogeny of the Himalayas happen?

Please to put those 4 events in the order you want to be able to claim that they happened, with the dates you want to wish for them.

 

[Akhenaten]

Good grief, people actually use IE?

Why yes, yes they do.

And some of them even manage to use it to locate, access, download, analyse, collate, format and re-present information from the World Wide Web.

Who'd have thought it, eh?

 

[pakeha]

For the record, not all Christian apologists believe the flood was global, some believe it was local. Dr. Hugh Ross believes it was a local flood.

So, if it was a local flood what is all your drivel about supersonic plate tectonics, fish fossils at the top of mountains and the fountains of the earth about?

Please answer this, DOC.

I believe God Created the universe, and Jesus Christ is part of the Holy Trinity.

This is what Jesus said about Noah.

They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

I believe what Jesus said.

As others have said, you believe what Jesus is reported to have said.
I have the impression you're back-pedaling on the universal flood story, is this true?
If so, congratulations on learning the bible is not literally true.

...Fast food companies that use dinosaurs as their free toys HATE paleontologists. "This isn't a dinosaur, it's a mammal-like reptile! And this! It's not even that--it's a bloody pterosaur, a completely different line of archeosauria!!! And a MAMMOTH? SERIOUSLY?!!"

No, that wasn't me. Yes, that person was asked to leave.

Of course it wasn't you, Dinwar, of course it wasn't!

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Why yes, yes they do.

And some of them even manage to use it to locate, access, download, analyse, collate, format and re-present information from the World Wide Web.

Who'd have thought it, eh?

Do they also have cars with three wheels and 20 ton engines?

 

[Agatha]

You really do think that a quotation of the words of a character in the very fairytale...

Jesus wasn't a fairytale. He was a famous historical person if we are to believe Bart Ehrman who said Jesus certainly existed. And he was a famous historical person whose grave is empty and whose body has never been found.

Good grief, DOC, do try to develop some reading comprehension.

Aberhaten (may the sun shine on him eternally) said that Jesus was a character in a fairytale. That is not the same thing as saying that Jesus is a fairytale. Several of the characters in the Bible actually existed. Several of the places existed. The Bible is historical fiction - a collection of myths and fairytales set against a backdrop of some real places, people and events.

Bart Ehrman's conclusion that a mortal (not divine) itinerant preacher by the name of Yeshua 'definitely existed' is not a support for all the supernatural fairytales found within the pages of the Bible, and the sooner you stop misrepresenting Ehrman the sooner we can stop having this silly derail every time you bring up Ehrman's sloppy scholarship in support of your divine poster boy.

However, all this is off topic for this thread, which is about your contention that the Biblical flood happened, and that somehow this flood event formed mountains.

Perhaps you could answer the questions about your own personal beliefs.

When do you believe the earth was created?

When do you believe Pangaea was a continent?

When were the Himalayas formed?

Was the Biblical flood a local or a global event?

Do you understand that mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosomal Adam are titles, not people, and that the current holders of these titles did not live at the same time?

Please note, we don't want to know what Hugh Ross thinks, or Bart Ehrman, or Geisler, or any of your favourite apologists. You are the one in this thread arguing for these events, so it's your beliefs and understanding that we are trying to gauge.

 

[DOC]

IMO, as stated earlier, the flood event, as written in the OT was world wide from their perspective, when you consider what their world consisted of at the time, the eastern end of the Mediterranean as far as Cappadocia (eastern Turkey).

They had no concept of the "global" world as we understand it.

Good Point. An example of their concept of the world is in Acts Chapter 2: verse 5 where it says:

"Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven."

Obviously the author of that area wasn't talking about places like Japan and Korea and New Zealand because he didn't even know those places existed. He was taking about every nation that they knew of.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Good Point. An example of their concept of the world is in Acts Chapter 2: verse 5 where it says:

"Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven."

Obviously the author of that area wasn't talking about places like Japan and Korea and New Zealand because he didn't even know those places existed. He was taking about every nation that they knew of.

So God was only mad at the locals? You keep slithering between "global" and "local" when you need to.

 

[Gawdzilla Sama]

Obviously the author of that area wasn't talking about places like Japan and Korea and New Zealand because he didn't even know those places existed. He was taking about every nation that they knew of.

Why did you use the word "obviously" there? Are there countries NOT under heaven?

 

[Craig B]

Good Point. An example of their concept of the world is in Acts Chapter 2: verse 5 where it says:

"Now there were staying in Jerusalem God-fearing Jews from every nation under heaven."

Obviously the author of that area wasn't talking about places like Japan and Korea and New Zealand because he didn't even know those places existed. He was taking about every nation that they knew of.

At that time no human beings lived in New Zealand, so we can forgive God or Luke or whoever wrote Acts for not mentioning this "nation".